Was Novus Ordo a good idea

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hey, novus ordo isnt what its supposed to be called. whine whine whine. who cares that novus ordo missae and new mass mean the same thing. whine whine whine.i have nothing else to do except complain about your terminology. whine.
 
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Mycroft:
dont annoy me.:tsktsk:
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Come on, dude. I"m just playin’ with ya.

No hard feelings, k? 👋
 
here’s a thought…

the TLM when it was promulgated by pope St. Pius V was the Novus Ordo of its day…
 
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frdave20:
here’s a thought…

the TLM when it was promulgated by pope St. Pius V was the Novus Ordo of its day…
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frdave, are you trying to use logic on these forums? You should know by now that it’s forbidden. 👍
 
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Mycroft:
con sider this propchecy given to Marie-Julie Jahenny the stigmatist-

On November 27, 1902 (Ed. note: The seventy-second anniversary of the Miraculous Medal Apparition [November 27, 1830]) and on May 10, 1904, Our Lord warned of the new liturgy which would one day be instituted:

"I give you a warning. The disciples who are not of My Gospel are now working hard to remake according to their ideas, and under the influence of the enemy of souls, a Mass that contains words which are odious in My Sight. When the fatal hour arrives where the faith of my priest is put to the test, it will be these texts that will be celebrated, in this second period. “The first period is the one of My Priesthood, existing since Me. The second is the one of the persecution, when the enemies of the Faith and of Holy Religion will impose their formulas in the book of the second celebration. Many of My holy priests will refuse this book, sealed with the words of the abyss. Unfortunately, amongst them are those who will accept it.”

To me this sounds like God warning us of Vatican II and the Novus Ordo…
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Then you also believe that test tube babies do not have souls because that’s what Veronica Luken said the Blessed Mother told her at Bayside and Veronica was a very holy woman because the Blessed Mother appeared to her.
You also believe we should spend four hours every day in prayer because that is what one of the seers at Medjugorje said the Blessed Mother told him and he is a very holy young man or else the Blessed Mother would have never appeared to him.
I could go on about the apparitions in Necedah, WI or Palmer de Troya or Garabandal or any other place that has never been approved by Rome. The point is unapproved private revelations are not to be believed by the faithful.
The revelation you posted sounds to me like a fraud. But then people will believe anything if it agrees with their opinion.
 
Chris Jacobsen:
I voted “no” because when the Mass changed a lot of people stopped going to church.
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I was there at the time, (in the church, I mean) and I was one who didn’t stop going. I did fall away from the faith, (later) but that was because I was an idiot and didn’t pay attention in church or in all my 12 years of Catholic schooling. The way I see it…a lot of people who left the Church or stopped going were people who wanted an excuse anyway and used the Novo Ordo as that excuse. The Mass today is as beautiful and relevent as ever IMO and in my parish. If there are abuses…I haven’t seen ‘em and I thank God for this parish and the one downtown that I sometimes attend. I still say it’s time to knock off all the whinin’ and cryin’ and get on with the work of God.
Pax vobiscum,
 
Swiss Guard:
A. Then you also believe that test tube babies do not have souls because that’s what Veronica Luken said the Blessed Mother told her at Bayside and Veronica was a very holy woman because the Blessed Mother appeared to her…

B…The revelation you posted sounds to me like a fraud. But then people will believe anything if it agrees with their opinion.
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A. The logic of that statement is totally flawed; because one believes in one visionary does not of necessity mean you believe each and everyone.

B. Jahenny is not a fraud - she has been declared a Blessed. However, this could have (since the apparition occures in early 1900’s or thereabouts) been some rather localized area of the world or could come in the future. To automatically assume that it means the current Mass is rather jumping to a conlcusion and I’m not quite certain that she referred to a Mass - my recollection is that it was more a practice or idea - I’d have to look it up and I’m not going to bother with it right now.
 
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frdave20:
here’s a thought…

the TLM when it was promulgated by pope St. Pius V was the Novus Ordo of its day…
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My brain just melted.
 
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HagiaSophia:
I obtained a totally different impression; what I got from him was that the Mass has changed and evolved down through the church’s history and at the time Pius codified his Mass, it was the “novus order” of its day. But I’ve never taken it to be much of anything else but an “identifier”. To me it is simply a neutral expression of the New Order of the Mass— Novus Ordo Missae
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I, too, saw this meaning in what he said, especially coupled with the rest of what Cardinal Arinze said about Vatican II issues. The church did not stop at Vatican II. Many things (including the mass) have changed somewhat since then.
 
You are totally correct. But I guess 1600 years of sacred history-and in which Pope after Pope refused to even touch the Canon was not enough for the Modernists-And Pope Paul VI and his and John XXIII ego to go and touch the Canon. I guess they thought that they were actually better than all of the Popes before-and that Bugnini and his cohorts were better to listen to than St Pius V.

I still use my pre-1962 missal-I have no trust in why the mass was changed and do not accept the reasons why. And more and more people are asking these questions.

After Mass I go to the masses while the Novus Ordo is being held along with some of the other TLM’ers and we give handouts to all leaving the mass explaining the mass, what and when it was changed and where the old mass came from and where the new mass came from. Many are so suprised as they had no idea. Some say, well if the Pope says…and then we explain that the council and the Pope were not speaking Doctinally, and that the TLM is allowed , and as far as the new mass goes we show them that 75% of the old mass was ripped out, and the sacred canon was touched where it had not been touched since the 7th century. The clincher is usually when we present them with the statistics from Vatican II to today-and that usually opens many of their eyes.

I suggest all who want to educate do likewise. Have about 50 or so handouts-and after your Indult-go over to the NO mass and hand them out, or even leave them on the car windshields. It has done wonders and opens eyes
As far as it being valid-that I guess is being answered on another string.
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katolik:
The idea that the Traditional Latin Mass is a “novus ordo” is an innovation. The Tridentine Mass is identical to the Mass of 1474 which was identical to the missal of… down to Pope Gregory I in the seventh century and the Roman Canon is over 1600 years old… For more history of this RIte go here…
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Yes, the missal authorized by Pope Paul VI was a good idea. The mistake in my opinion was to scrap completely the missal authorized by Pope St. Pius V. What the Vatican should have done is authorize the new missal and give Catholics the choice of which one they wanted to attend with the explicit instruction to bishops that they must make both available in their dioceses.

The Vatican has tried to do this a little bit with the indult Mass, but since the missal of Paul VI replaced the missal of Pius V after Vatican II, the “Tridentine Rite” is still looked on with disfavor by most Catholics as a concession to stubborn traditionalists rather than an alternate Latin rite of equal dignity with the “Novus Ordo.” Hence, you can’t find a “Tridentine” Mass in many dioceses in this country and around the world.
 
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BulldogCath:
After Mass I go to the masses while the Novus Ordo is being held along with some of the other TLM’ers and we give handouts to all leaving the mass explaining the mass, what and when it was changed and where the old mass came from and where the new mass came from. Many are so suprised as they had no idea. Some say, well if the Pope says…and then we explain that the council and the Pope were not speaking Doctinally, and that the TLM is allowed , and as far as the new mass goes we show them that 75% of the old mass was ripped out, and the sacred canon was touched where it had not been touched since the 7th century. The clincher is usually when we present them with the statistics from Vatican II to today-and that usually opens many of their eyes.

I suggest all who want to educate do likewise. Have about 50 or so handouts-and after your Indult-go over to the NO mass and hand them out, or even leave them on the car windshields. It has done wonders and opens eyes
As far as it being valid-that I guess is being answered on another string.
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Do you attend an Indult Mass? If so, no detraction of the Mass of Paul VI is supposed to be permitted, as it was promulgated by the Church and is the normative Mass of the Church. Does your bishop know that this detraction is going on? Or do you attend a service of the schismatic SSPX? If so, then passing out flyers would be an attempt to lead others into schism. I always hope the Indult will be generously applied (it isn’t in my diocese, I’m sorry to say), but detraction is supposed to be forbidden. Then again, I suppose liturgical abuses are forbidden, as well.
 
Sure my Bishop knows-I have spoke to him and e-mailed him and written him-as have others but he refuses to allow the indult in any Parish that is near-out of 130 churchs only one church says the indult and it is of course the most remote. He has Polish mass, spanish mass, all kinds of masses at the main church-but no TLM.

And as far as detraction-I am not concerned about that. I am a Bulldog for the faith, and if my getting people who dont normally attend mass, or who attend the NO mass and they get nothing out of it and bring them back to the TRUE MASS that will keep them out of sin and save thier soul, then I have done something good. I accept the NO MASS-but it should not be the Norm-If the TLM mass was good enough for all of the Saints, Popes, and the early catholic martyrs-it is good enough for me. I will take Pope Pius I through Pope Pius XII before I take one Cardinal Bugnini
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JKirkLVNV:
Do you attend an Indult Mass? If so, no detraction of the Mass of Paul VI is supposed to be permitted, as it was promulgated by the Church and is the normative Mass of the Church. Does your bishop know that this detraction is going on? Or do you attend a service of the schismatic SSPX? If so, then passing out flyers would be an attempt to lead others into schism. I always hope the Indult will be generously applied (it isn’t in my diocese, I’m sorry to say), but detraction is supposed to be forbidden. Then again, I suppose liturgical abuses are forbidden, as well.
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Then if your bishop doesn’t permit the Indult, I can only surmise that you are attending the schismatic SSPX. Go to the Vatican website and see what the Holy Father said to those who attend this mass. He’s pretty firm. If you’re encouraging others to do the same, you’re encouraging schism, which is as wrong as abuses to the liturgy.
 
Dr. Bombay:
When does the new Mass stop being called new? It’s over 30 years old. People over 30 certainly aren’t new.

I propose we just call it the Mass. The '62 and previous liturgy can be called Mass Classic.
Who’s with me? :tiphat:

Therefore, the proper question for this poll is: Was the Mass a good idea?

Uhhhhhhhhhh… :hmmm:
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Mass Classic seems that has historical significance
Coke Classic… New Coke

Just a observation… Seems that the title of this thread should be, do we like the New Mass better than the Original Mass

Fogny
 
You are surmising-or shall I say ASSUMING incorrect-and you do know what they say when you ASSUME?

God bless
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JKirkLVNV:
Then if your bishop doesn’t permit the Indult, I can only surmise that you are attending the schismatic SSPX. Go to the Vatican website and see what the Holy Father said to those who attend this mass. He’s pretty firm. If you’re encouraging others to do the same, you’re encouraging schism, which is as wrong as abuses to the liturgy.
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BulldogCath:
After Mass I go to the masses while the Novus Ordo is being held along with some of the other TLM’ers** and we give handouts to all leaving the mass explaining the mass, what and when it was changed and where the old mass came from and where the new mass came from. Many are so suprised as they had no idea. Some say, well if the Pope says…and then we explain that the council and the Pope were not speaking Doctinally, and that the TLM is allowed , and as far as the new mass goes we show them that 75% of the old mass was ripped out, and the sacred canon was touched where it had not been touched since the 7th century. The clincher is usually when we present them with the statistics from Vatican II to today-and that usually opens many of their eyes.**

I suggest all who want to educate do likewise. Have about 50 or so handouts-and after your Indult-go over to the NO mass and hand them out, or even leave them on the car windshields. It has done wonders and opens eyes
As far as it being valid-that I guess is being answered on another string.
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Sorry if I read you wrong, but see the highlighted above. Perhaps you go to the Mass of Paul VI, and then help others who attend the Indult in another diocese distribute fliers that deprecate the Mass (NO)? If so, one can only see that as activity intended to lead the faithful away from the normative Mass. The Indult is supposed to be for any and all who have a devotion to the traditional Mass and is not supposed to call into question the validity or efficacy of the NO Mass. Perhaps you go to the Mass of Paul VI, and then help others who attend the schismatic SSPX distribute fliers that deprecate the Mass (NO)? If so, that would be to materially aid in the schism. If I’m incorrect, perhaps you would enlighten me.
 
I will take Pope Pius I through Pope Pius XII before I take one Cardinal Bugnini
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Hey Bulldog!
What happened to all the popes prior to Pius I and post Pius XII?
 
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