Was Novus Ordo a good idea

[Fogny]

CreosMary:

I would hesitate to blame the new Mass for the effects that you mentioned. We must remember that Vatican II came at the same time time as the sexual rebellion, womens rights for gay whales and a host of factors that have altered society totally.
I would more inclined to question the catechists in the Catholic school system, the rise of heretics as pastoral associates and dissident theologians for the state of the Church today.
As for the new Mass, It is beautiful when done well as our Archbishop does. I also love the TLM. As others have said the Magisterium has spoken and as a Catholic I adhere to thier rulings

If I can make the analogy of a corporate merger between two companies that have different cultures.
The Catholic Church prior to VII was tied to tradition of prior councils where it’s major focus was the Catholics allready in the Church.
The new culture of Vatican II was open to reuniting all Christian faiths which has split mainly because they could not reconcile modern culture with the truth of the Catholic teaching.
The end result is a culture that is split between the Catholic culture of strict adherence to dogma and doctrine and the more prevelant culture of tolerance and the ability to accept our christian brothers.
The end result is the Church adopts culture from different faiths through osmosis ( bringing together) without changing Dogma and allowing doctine to be evolutionary.
The traditionlists are the original culture with emphasis on a strict adherence to practice without the liberty to change to modern culture, and the majority are the new culture who emphasize greater liberty to adapt to modern culture.
Of course what is modern cultures main problem?? It is the tolerence of sin.
As in any merger of cultures there is always fallout, the minority are stifled and rebuked for adhering to the “old way of doing things” if they refuse to change they are “fired” as in the case of the SPPX, But many just leave.
Those in control will continue with the new culture despite these tribulations for if they compromise it is a departure from their intended goals.
Fortunately this is the Catholic faith and compromise is a option although it is given less freely almost to appear only in charity.
Same name, same Dogma and doctrine but the culture has indeed changed. Therefore nobody can say that the merger has failed.

Fogny

 

[Swiss_Guard]

HagiaSophia:

A. The logic of that statement is totally flawed; because one believes in one visionary does not of necessity mean you believe each and everyone.

You missed the point of my statement. I am not focusing on the visionary but rather the fact that Rome has not approved the apparitions. If you would read the entire quote you would have seen I was referring to the lack of approval for the apparition.
Swiss Guard:
I could go on about the apparitions in Necedah, WI or Palmer de Troya or Garabandal or any other place that has never been approved by Rome. The point is unapproved private revelations are not to be believed by the faithful.
My logic isn’t flawed, it’s your interpretation of what I posted that is flawed.

B. Jahenny is not a fraud - she has been declared a Blessed. However, this could have (since the apparition occures in early 1900’s or thereabouts) been some rather localized area of the world or could come in the future. To automatically assume that it means the current Mass is rather jumping to a conlcusion and I’m not quite certain that she referred to a Mass - my recollection is that it was more a practice or idea - I’d have to look it up and I’m not going to bother with it right now.

It doesn’t matter if Jahenny is right below the Blessed Mother. If the alleged apparition she had isn’t approved by Rome the faithful are not to believe it.

I’m not questioning if Jahenny was a stigmatist or not, although I have my doubts. I’m questioning the apparition and with good reason because the Holy See has not seen fit to approve it.

 

[challenger]

I don’t think the issue is with the validity of the Novus Ordo (as I inferred from some people bringing up the promulgation of it by the Church), as with whether it gives due homage to God. The fact remains, the current “Novus Ordo” (and I will use that name) moved closer to the Lutheran service, as the Vatican Newspaper said after its formulation. What is to be expected, when you have six Protestants in there making it?

I do not question the validity of the NO, but I do not think it is as Catholic as the TLM.

 

[Therese_Martin]

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This thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.**