Was She Evil?

[misericordie]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

Oh so it is women who corrupt men and men are not in charge of their own sin, but women can beguile the man to sin because man is so stupid eh?

This sounds like the cry of Adam in the garden…‘it was her (Eve) who made me do it, the sin is not mine.’ When clearly the sin is of both man and woman!

You know there are plenty of men out there who desire to use women for their bodies and tempt them into sex but you don’t hear women moan on and on about it, we just resist it! Take a leaf out of the women’s book on this!!!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

I do not dispute your overall argument here and it is true that most guys are the scum on the this. However, IN MY EXPERIENCES, this has not been the case, especially the latest one. Note I am not what is described as “a player.” My last “girlfriend” was back in 1996, and she was no good. The very decent ones seem taken already. Here in New York City things may just be like this, I don’t know??

 

[Fergal]

Thanks, wow what a wise author of that passage in the Bible.

Yeah. God does tend to be rather wise evey now and again!!!

 

[springbreeze]

misericordie:

I do not dispute your overall argument here and it is true that most guys are the scum on the this. However, IN MY EXPERIENCES, this has not been the case, especially the latest one. Note I am not what is described as “a player.” My last “girlfriend” was back in 1996, and she was no good. The very decent ones seem taken already. Here in New York City things may just be like this, I don’t know??

Dear friend

No-one can make you do anything you do not want to do…period. There is no chance that anyone will get me to do anything I really do not want to do, they can tempt me, give me the best talk they have on it, give me all the reasoning etc, still I will not do what I do not want to do. So you have to accept that some part of you WANTED to do certain things, or you could not have been led on this path. So now you see you have a weakness and are about to join the rest of the human race that possesses some weakness, as we are all weak in some way or other!

‘Let is make them in Our Own Image, Let Us make them male and female’ …It is not the fault of sexes and no-one should set up woman against man nor man against woman, it is simply the fault of the broken human nature and you must resist it with all you mind heart body and soul and then you will love God with all your mind heart body and soul as well as your neighbour (your neighbour being women as well as men! ). Jesus isn’t sexist and neither is the Church!

‘He who loves me will obey my commands’

We all have to make God’s Will our own will, simple, yet hard to do…keep praying!!!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[DustinsDad]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

Oh so it is women who corrupt men and men are not in charge of their own sin, but women can beguile the man to sin because man is so stupid eh?

Sort of, but not quite. If the man allows temptations to lust to cause them into sin, the sin is the man’s. If a woman purposely tempts a man to sin, that is a sin on her part. And yes of course, it works both ways.

Yes, men are weak in this area, that is obvious. But so too are women often weak in this area in that they all to often (especially in today’s culture) revel in tempting men to sin. Check out the way the girls dress at your local junior-high if you doubt it. I mean, whatever happened to modesty! I think some parents are off their rocker.

Peace in Christ

DustinsDad

 

[DustinsDad]

misericordie:

I wrote the passage down, and will read it daily. Thanks, wow what a wise author of that passage in the Bible.

Here’s another…
(Sirach 9:1-9)
Do not be jealous of the wife of your bosom, and do not teach her an evil lesson to your own hurt.
Do not give yourself to a woman so that she gains mastery over your strength.
Do not go to meet a loose woman, lest you fall into her snares.
Do not associate with a woman singer, lest you be caught in her intrigues.
Do not look intently at a virgin, lest you stumble and incur penalties for her.
Do not give yourself to harlots lest you lose your inheritance.
Do not look around in the streets of a city, nor wander about in its deserted sections.
Turn away your eyes from a shapely woman, and do not look intently at beauty belonging to another; many have been misled by a woman’s beauty, and by it passion is kindled like a fire.
Never dine with another man’s wife, nor revel with her at wine; lest your heart turn aside to her, and in blood you be plunged into destruction.

Peace

DustinsDad

 

[springbreeze]

DustinsDad:

Sort of, but not quite. If the man allows temptations to lust to cause lead them into sin, the sin is the man’s. If a woman purposely tempts a man to sin, that is a sin on her part.

Yes, men are weak in this area, that is obvious. But so too are women often weak in this area in that they all to often (especially in today’s culture) revel in tempting men to sin. Check out the way the girls dress at your local junior-high if you doubt it. I mean, whatever happened to modesty! I think some parents are off their rocker.

Peace in Christ

DustinsDad

Dear friend

If a woman tempts a man and he succumbs that is HIS and HER sin not falling to just one or the other, just as if a man tempts a woman and the woman succumbs to it, it is HER and HIS sin…as the old saying goes, it takes TWO to tango!

You know we always can see the door and make use of it! To say that they made me do it is to make the cry of Adam, both sinned, none were innocent…BOTH SINNED.

Men are no better than women and women are no better than men… we each are sojourners and we each have a responsibility to aid each other to heaven. If in the path of life we come across a member of the opposite sex who desires to tempt us into sin, instead of being tempted we should see this as an opportunity to show the love of Christ Jesus and resist and teach a lesson by our resisting.

If you cannot bear how people dress and offer glory to God for making beautiful women…then avert your eyes!

Personally whenever I see a lovely handsome man, I thank God for his beauty and that is as far as it goes.

Personally speaking if a person is sucked in by the outward sign of beauty without no inner beauty then that is naivity in it’s utmost, because beauty is not of the flesh but is of the soul, what I am readin here is the superficial charms taking over souls of people, it is people purely looking to the external without a thought to the internal and that speaks of nothign but shallowness and foolishness to me.

Only the male idiot would demonise women and only the female idiot would demonise men.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[DustinsDad]

I don’t think we’re really disagreeing on much here.

Just try to understand that men and women are indeed different, weakness inherant in different areas so to speak. Take my word for it if nothing else…men often “fall prey” to the visual, the sensual, etc. With all due respect, think the temptation to sexual sin isn’t the exact same for men and women in most cases.

Of course we can turn away, of course there’s always a door to walk through to leave the situation - we know that!

But as a man, I can relate to the struggles our brother here is going through, and I’m trying to offer some practical advise along with some strong Scriptural support to help him fight the battle. Please don’t trivialize the matter - it’s not quite as easy for us guys as you think!

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[trailblazer]

Wow! I go away for a couple of days…what a subject to come to! I here a great deal of the same advice from many. Many of you, especially Springbreeze, have shared a great deal of wisdom. Some of the latest posts make it sound like its all women who do the tempting, what all of us know that guys do at least as much. Yet, be careful not to link all men and women into such categories…this is prejudice and sinful.

We should try to avoid putting ourselves in paths where tempatations will occur. When faced with temptations we should strive, with help of God’s grace, to resist. If we falter, we should repent, confess, and work to overcome that sin in the future.

I really dislike labeling this young lady as “evil.” Was she used by the evil one, very probably, but that does not make her evil. She may be immersed in a worldculture foreign to many of us, and may have become blinded to such sins. Also, perhaps she was in the manic phase of bipolar, which often has heightened sexual drive that may be beyond her ability to easily control. She sounds like someone who needs true love and support. We should pray for her. Perhaps someone may even open her eyes and heart to a new Christian life. The very fact that she went to confession is a great sign.

Maybe she approached an older Church-man with hope that he might be able to offer some help and not label or reject her. Of course, this does not mean one should engage in sinful sexual relationships, but have the maturity to offer love without such relationships!

 

[springbreeze]

trailblazer:

Wow! I go away for a couple of days…what a subject to come to! I here a great deal of the same advice from many. Many of you, especially Springbreeze, have shared a great deal of wisdom. Some of the latest posts make it sound like its all women who do the tempting, what all of us know that guys do at least as much. Yet, be careful not to link all men and women into such categories…this is prejudice and sinful.

We should try to avoid putting ourselves in paths where tempatations will occur. When faced with temptations we should strive, with help of God’s grace, to resist. If we falter, we should repent, confess, and work to overcome that sin in the future.

I really dislike labeling this young lady as “evil.” Was she used by the evil one, very probably, but that does not make her evil. She may be immersed in a worldculture foreign to many of us, and may have become blinded to such sins. Also, perhaps she was in the manic phase of bipolar, which often has heightened sexual drive that may be beyond her ability to easily control. She sounds like someone who needs true love and support. We should pray for her. Perhaps someone may even open her eyes and heart to a new Christian life. The very fact that she went to confession is a great sign.

Maybe she approached an older Church-man with hope that he might be able to offer some help and not label or reject her. Of course, this does not mean one should engage in sinful sexual relationships, but have the maturity to offer love without such relationships!

Dear Trailblazer

The part that most stood out to me in your post was the simple fact that this young woman was probably seeking LOVE and the only way she probably knew of seeking this intimacy is by sex, but infact what she really sought was LOVE.

I have been most upset to think that people are demonised especially by the ‘camping’ of male and female in society, this for me goes against everything that my faith is formed upon. There is, for me, no seperateness although I do recognise that men and women are different, but their difference are not meant to oppose them but to compliment each other.

Truly it is the self within us that is at fault and we first should always look to ourselves believing the other to be better than ourselves and it is ourselves that needs repetance.

I will not look outward and blame another for my sins, my sins are my own and it is me who is in charge of my own soul and if I allow myself to be led then it is myself who desires it, I can say in all honesty if someone was to lead me to sin, my will as it is joined with God’s would not be led as such and would resist.

Furthermore I will not hear a bad word said against another, because in the confusion of sin, there is always some part of me that has sinned and could have done better and those that I percieve could have sinned may well have but it is my part that is worse and I have not only failed them but myself because as a Catholic I should have known better.

So what am I saying? Look to yourself rather than to the other, everything starts with yourself and nothing can start in yourself without God and nothing can start at all without prayer.

Surely above outside temptation the battle against the ‘self’ is the worst thing…

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Church_Militant]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

Oh so it is women who corrupt men and men are not in charge of their own sin, but women can beguile the man to sin because man is so stupid eh?

This sounds like the cry of Adam in the garden…‘it was her (Eve) who made me do it, the sin is not mine.’ When clearly the sin is of both man and woman!

You know there are plenty of men out there who desire to use women for their bodies and tempt them into sex but you don’t hear women moan on and on about it, we just resist it! Take a leaf out of the women’s book on this!!!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

Teresa, did you even read what I posted?

"Ecclesiastes 7 :27 And I have found a woman more bitter than death, who is the hunter’s snare, and her heart is a net, and her hands are bands. He that pleaseth God shall escape from her: but he that is a sinner, shall be caught by her.

There’s a lot of stuff in life that will betray us but the wise man (and woman for that matter, since it cuts both ways) learns to put the security of their soul on a high enough priority that we don’t find ourselves in a trap, a net, and in bands."

My point is that we should ALL look out for our souls and not go there. As for you girls not cryin’ and whinin’

 

[Church_Militant]

DustinsDad:

Sort of, but not quite. If the man allows temptations to lust to cause them into sin, the sin is the man’s. If a woman purposely tempts a man to sin, that is a sin on her part. And yes of course, it works both ways.

Yes, men are weak in this area, that is obvious. But so too are women often weak in this area in that they all to often (especially in today’s culture) revel in tempting men to sin. Check out the way the girls dress at your local junior-high if you doubt it. I mean, whatever happened to modesty! I think some parents are off their rocker.

Peace in Christ

DustinsDad

School? Check out what they wear to Mass!

 

[springbreeze]

Church Militant:

Teresa, did you even read what I posted?

"Ecclesiastes 7 :27 And I have found a woman more bitter than death, who is the hunter’s snare, and her heart is a net, and her hands are bands. He that pleaseth God shall escape from her: but he that is a sinner, shall be caught by her.

There’s a lot of stuff in life that will betray us but the wise man (and woman for that matter, since it cuts both ways) learns to put the security of their soul on a high enough priority that we don’t find ourselves in a trap, a net, and in bands."

My point is that we should ALL look out for our souls and not go there. As for you girls not cryin’ and whinin’

Dear friend

You did not present it as both ways infact you presented it as though men are better and it is us women who go about tempting men into all sorts of sins.

I read it and was appalled at how you presented Sacred Scripture.

So maybe next time you care to write anything about sexual sin you will be more careful to present clearly all the Scriptural facts as well as what the Church teaches…I am not alone in seeing that what has been posted here is seemingly a slur on the female species that God created as equal to man.

Or would you care to tell me my soul, as a woman, is less than yours? Who’s womb did you come forth from?As a mother I have forgotten myself many times… Let me tell you this, if it wasn’t for the kindness and the willingness to suffer no person would exist, let me tell you that if not for your mother’s you would have perished, because the drive in a woman to nurture her young regardless of herself and the pain it may cause her, the lack of sleep or tiredness, the pain and the loss to herself even forgetting herself and sacrificing comfort of body and material gain, so the woman gives to her child and so God sought to create Mary all good and sinless to bring forth from this perfect love of selflessness His Son…Do not tell me women are less and a source of sin to you poor old men!!!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[BlindSheep]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

You did not present it as both ways infact you presented it as though men are better and it is us women who go about tempting men into all sorts of sins.

Spring, I have to respectfully disagree. He clearly stated that it “cuts both ways”, therefore applying it to both sexes.

I read it and was appalled at how you presented Sacred Scripture.

If anything, his presentation diffused any possibility for a sexist interpretation.

So maybe next time you care to write anything about sexual sin you will be more careful to present clearly all the Scriptural facts as well as what the Church teaches…I am not alone in seeing that what has been posted here is seemingly a slur on the female species that God created as equal to man.

If you see that post as a slur, perhaps you should examine your own preconceptions. I read it too, and there was no slur on the equality of women whatsoever. Perhaps you are reading what you expect to see rather than what is actually written?

Or would you care to tell me my soul, as a woman, is less than yours? Who’s womb did you come forth from?As a mother I have forgotten myself many times… Let me tell you this, if it wasn’t for the kindness and the willingness to suffer no person would exist, let me tell you that if not for your mother’s you would have perished, because the drive in a woman to nurture her young regardless of herself and the pain it may cause her, the lack of sleep or tiredness, the pain and the loss to herself even forgetting herself and sacrificing comfort of body and material gain, so the woman gives to her child and so God sought to create Mary all good and sinless to bring forth from this perfect love of selflessness His Son…Do not tell me women are less and a source of sin to you poor old men!!!

How you can possibly find fodder for the above outburst on this thread is beyond me.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

And the peace of Christ be with you.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

The latter part of this thread has tended towards the notion that women tempt men and women are a sinful influence on men, well men should look to their weaknesses and their own sinfulness and not seek out women as a cause of it…That’s the way it looked and came across, if a poster did not want it to seem so, they should have made it more explicit in their writings

God Bless and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[BlindSheep]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

The latter part of this thread has tended towards the notion that women tempt men and women are a sinful influence on men, well men should look to their weaknesses and their own sinfulness and not seek out women as a cause of it…That’s the way it looked and came across, if a poster did not want it to seem so, they should have made it more explicit in their writings

God Bless and much love and peace to you

Teresa

Do you deny that men sometimes feel tempted because of women? Not that it would always be because of some deliberate action on her part, but certainly there are times when that is the case. There are women who try to seduce men into sinful activities, and it is wrong for them to do so. Surely you don’t think that the actions of the young woman in the OP were acceptable? She may not have known any better, she may not be accountable, but still, her actions were objectively wrong. Just reverse the sexes and you can see that both are to blame - imagine some smooth-talking dude trying to seduce a young girl - if she gives in, is all the blame hers? Or is he also guilty? It is wrong to deliberately tempt others to sin - it is a sin in itself, and that holds true whether one is male or female.

 

[trailblazer]

Communication can be a funny thing because what one person may say is heard and interpreted individually. It is not uncommon for me to say one thing and for someone to interpret it completely the reverse of my intentions (of course, probably because I often speak without carefully considering my words!). I guess what I’m saying here, is after listening to the last few responses, maybe there is just some misunderstandings. I would hope that as devoted Catholics, there is no prejudices between sexes in this forum. Both men and women can tempt others…we all agree that if done intentionally, this is wrong. On the other hand, when one of either sex knowingly gives into temptations, they are wrong too. These actions do not make a person evil, only perhaps sinful and in need of love, forgiveness, and direction as Jesus would have given.

I seem to recall a story of St. Francis disrobing and lying down on hot coals when a lady tried to seduce him. His love, understanding and actions helped convert her.

I hope that these words were not offensive to anyone. Lets move on!

Bob

 

[Church_Militant]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

You did not present it as both ways infact you presented it as though men are better and it is us women who go about tempting men into all sorts of sins.

I read it and was appalled at how you presented Sacred Scripture.

Teresa

"Dear Friend "
Look…you can be appalled all ya want…I didn’t write the passage in question and if ya don’t like it, then take it up with Solomon or whoever authored Ecclesiates. It’s not my fault that the passage is like that and you can read the context and it won’t change a bit.

Maybe you’d prefer some more “inclusive language”? Get off us guys and put that defensive stuff back in your sock or wherever you got it, ‘cos you’re whinin’ about something that wasn’t in the intent of my post and I’m not gonna wear your stupid recriminations.

I presented a passage of scripture- period. There’s a lot of 'em like that and that’s not what this is about. If you want somebody to dump on you girls, then you better go pester someone else…because you’ve hung it all on the wrong guy.
Get off…
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/cart204.gif

Like the brit lady said: “and only the female idiot would demonise men.”

 

[jimmy]

springbreeze, you need to settle down. He did not present women in a bad light. The verse he posted was speaking of a specific woman, not women in general. Further, he specifically said “it cuts both ways.” So, you can continue to resent him for his post, but he did not say anything that should be offensive to women.

 

[Church_Militant]

jimmy:

springbreeze, you need to settle down. He did not present women in a bad light. The verse he posted was speaking of a specific woman, not women in general. Further, he specifically said “it cuts both ways.” So, you can continue to resent him for his post, but he did not say anything that should be offensive to women.

Thanks Jimmy…

 

[misericordie]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

The latter part of this thread has tended towards the notion that women tempt men and women are a sinful influence on men, well men should look to their weaknesses and their own sinfulness and not seek out women as a cause of it…That’s the way it looked and came across, if a poster did not want it to seem so, they should have made it more explicit in their writings

God Bless and much love and peace to you

Teresa

Sorry the Bible and the whole Church does not appeal to your ULTRA feminism. However, I guess HISORY must be re-written to please you? Sampson, King Davis, Adam and Eve? Solomon? Umm, yes, men troughout history have been SEDUCED by women, and again, If you read carefully instead of being guided by your feelings and emotions, yoo will read that I said earlier, that there ARE bad men who are as bad, and also seducers. Umm, truth over emotion and feminist opinion.