If the Christian God is truly omnipresent, then he must be in time to some degree. In order to speak to the OT characters, he had to be in time. Did not Jesus say that he would leave a teacher behind, the Holy Spirit? As part of the trinity, and fully God, is not the Holy Spirit in time if he is with us?Again your trying to make God into a creature in time…
You keep repeating this way of thinking…
Doing so is starting with a false premise and thus hitting a wall.
Trying to figure out a car from knowing only a Bicycle – and continuing not to accept that that car is not a bicycle. Asking again and again - how do you make the peddles go round and round?
Actually, He is not at all in time - God never spoke “in person” to anyone in the Old Testament, but his Angel. This has been understood for millennia, such as the burning bush, it was the LORD’s Angel speaking in time to Moses. And the All the other episodes (Jacob wrestling with God - it was with God’s Angel; Abraham entertaining God and hearing he would have a son and name him Isaac - God’s Angels; Abraham debating with God about Sodom and Gomorrah - debating with God’s Angel; God talking with Adam and Eve in the Garden - it was the LORD’s Angel.If the Christian God is truly omnipresent, then he must be in time to some degree. In order to speak to the OT characters, he had to be in time. Did not Jesus say that he would leave a teacher behind, the Holy Spirit? As part of the trinity, and fully God, is not the Holy Spirit in time if he is with us?
John
God can have a timeless intention to create the universe but I think your problem is the act of creation “in time”. God can, by His freewill, act on His intention, all in a timeless state. The problem of creation “in time” was solved by Kant with his example of the Bowling ball resting on the pillow causing the pillow to dip.Since the cosmos is space and time and created then time itself had a beginning. But surely time cannot be created in time? What was created in time? The universe or time-space? What is the binding catholic dogma or doctrine on time and creation?
I’m afraid that according to your Church, you are incorrect. CCC 2576** "Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.**"21 Moses’ prayer is characteristic of contemplative prayer by which God’s servant remains faithful to his mission. Moses converses with God often and at length, climbing the mountain to hear and entreat him and coming down to the people to repeat the words of his God for their guidance. Moses “is entrusted with all my house. With him I speak face to face, clearly, not in riddles,” for "Moses was very humble, more so than anyone else on the face of the earth."22Actually, He is not at all in time - God never spoke “in person” to anyone in the Old Testament, but his Angel. This has been understood for millennia, such as the burning bush, it was the LORD’s Angel speaking in time to Moses. And the All the other episodes (Jacob wrestling with God - it was with God’s Angel; Abraham entertaining God and hearing he would have a son and name him Isaac - God’s Angels; Abraham debating with God about Sodom and Gomorrah - debating with God’s Angel; God talking with Adam and Eve in the Garden - it was the LORD’s Angel.
Something new happens with the coming of Christ - we come into the timeless presence of God and know what he is knowing eternally. When we are at Mass, we are in the cloud of the presence of God and seeing the body of Christ that could only be seen in 33AD (approx.). We are there in the presence of God at Mass and knowing (seeing) with God’s sight - he eternally knows 33AD, unchangingly knows it, outside of time knows it. And we, in that moment at Mass are also outside of time with him.
It is the same with the presence of the Holy Spirit - He in no way comes into us as if coming into time. Instead He elevates our souls to know God in heaven, timelessly, elevates us to know what God knows about ourselves and about the life we have in union with Him. He timelessly knows this eternally, and we participate this knowing and make it real by our lives in time, our physical being manifesting by works of virtue what we know “in heaven”.
You are displaying a very superficial (physicality only) reasoning of the human person and superficial reasoning of the essence, the knowledge, and power of God.I’m afraid that according to your Church, you are incorrect. CCC 2576** "Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.**"21 Moses’ prayer is characteristic of contemplative prayer by which God’s servant remains faithful to his mission. Moses converses with God often and at length, climbing the mountain to hear and entreat him and coming down to the people to repeat the words of his God for their guidance. Moses “is entrusted with all my house. With him I speak face to face, clearly, not in riddles,” for "Moses was very humble, more so than anyone else on the face of the earth."22
Further, in order to be omnipresent is God being simultaneously wherever he is, since he is present everywhere. The divine omnipresence is twofold, by nature and by grace.
By nature God is present in all things by essence, knowledge, and power. This is the presence of a cause in the things that share in God’s goodness. By his essence, he is substantially in all things, including the created spiritual essences (angels, demons, human souls) as the immediate origin of their existence. by his knowledge, he exercises his wisdom directly in all creation down to the least details. By his power, he operates with divine activity as the First Cause of everything that creatures do.
By grace, God is further present in the souls in whom he dwells as in a temple. Hence the creature is joined, as it were, to God’s substance, through the activity of mind and heart, by faith cleaving to the First Truth, and by charity to the First Good. He is therefore present by grace as the known is to the knower and the beloved is to the lover. This presence is more than a cause in an effect. It is the possession of God on earth similar to his being possessed by the angels and saints in heaven. catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=35261
He was “afraid to look at God”, i.e. “afraid to look at the Angel of the Lord”Now Moses was keeping the flock of his father-in-law, Jethro, the priest of Midian, and he led his flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. And Moses said, “I will turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned.” When the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” Then he said, “Do not come near; take your sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.” And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
Seeing the “one whom he has sent”, whether the Angel of the Lord, or Jesus himself, is seeing and hearing him face to face. You will never see his essence with your eyes. My Church and I are one in understanding, knowing the human person has a soul that is not perceptible to the eyes, ears, touch or thoughts, but it is spiritual, capable of being in the presence of God, who is Spirit.John 1:
No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 5:
And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent.
You can keep your God in timeless state safe. I am talking about creation and the very fact that you need to create time in order to perform any act.Again your trying to make God into a creature in time…
You keep repeating this way of thinking…
Doing so is starting with a false premise and thus hitting a wall.
Trying to figure out a car from knowing only a Bicycle – and continuing not to accept that that car is not a bicycle. Asking again and again - how do you make the peddles go round and round?
You should start to think about the Trinity.You can keep your God in timeless state safe. I am talking about creation and the very fact that you need to create time in order to perform any act.
I am talking about the act creation when there was no time whereas you are talking about the current state of creation. Needless to say that you cannot fuse a timeless being, Father, to time-bound beings, Holy Spirit and Son.You should start to think about the Trinity.
The Father - outside of time.
The Holy Spirit - in Him we move and have our being.
The Son - in time.
God is God and not a creature in time. Your still thinking of God as if God were a creature in time.I am talking about creation and the very fact that you need to create time in order to perform any act.
The Holy Trinity is outside of Time.You should start to think about the Trinity.
The Father - outside of time.
The Holy Spirit - in Him we move and have our being.
The Son - in time.
You are erasing the problem instead of answering it by saying that God is God. You need time to perform any act most importantly the act of creation, absence of existence into existence. You are dealing with a change with any act hence you need time.God is God and not a creature in time. Your still thinking of God as if God were a creature in time.
And time is part of the creation of God. Tis a reality of creation.
No I am not. I am answering. You just keep trying to think of God as if God were a creature in time.You are erasing the problem instead of answering it by saying that God is God. You need time to perform any act most importantly the act of creation, absence of existence into existence. You are dealing with a change with any act hence you need time.
Nothing then something. Is that a change?No I am not. I am answering. You just keep trying to think of God as if God were a creature in time.
Creation was “ex nihil” out of nothing.
Not a change in something.
Not anything to change.Nothing then something. Is that a change?
What do you mean? Nothing to something. That is a change or not?Not anything to change.
I mean what I noted.What do you mean? Nothing to something. That is a change or not?
Of course I am putting timeless God in my box of ideas and it doesn’t fit. It is incoherent and illogical hence it cannot exist.I mean what I noted.
Read above.
And again you keep trying to put God in a box of your ideas - or think of God as if God were not God but a creature in time - rather than approaching God as God.