Was there ever a "first" God of the LDS church?

[RebeccaJ]

Use of the word “predator” is 100% bashing. A predator would do something like show up at your door, kick it down, kidnap you out of bed, drag you off to some dark alley, and then beat you to death.

In contrast a LDS missionary knocks, smiles, asks you if you’d like to hear about Jesus, and then politely leaves when you say “no thank you”.

I’m sorry if you cannot see the huge difference between the two.

When you live in Utah, and are not LDS, it most certainly feels like you and your family are prey. It takes great vigilance to ward off the constant and unwanted approaches, neighbors trying to convert your children, teenage co-workers who won’t leave your teen alone, missionaries showing up at your door asking for your underage children BY NAME, etc. All these things, we’ve experienced, and more.

Predatory is the right word, in its right definition of exploitive.

 

[Horton]

When you live in Utah, and are not LDS, it most certainly feels like you and your family are prey. It takes great vigilance to ward off the constant and unwanted approaches, neighbors trying to convert your children, teenage co-workers who won’t leave your teen alone, missionaries showing up at your door asking for your underage children BY NAME, etc. All these things, we’ve experienced, and more.

Predatory is the right word, in its right definition of exploitive.

This was my experience living in Utah and other predominate LDS communities.

 

[lax16]

Use of the word “predator” is 100% bashing. A predator would do something like show up at your door, kick it down, kidnap you out of bed, drag you off to some dark alley, and then beat you to death.

In contrast a LDS missionary knocks, smiles, asks you if you’d like to hear about Jesus, and then politely leaves when you say “no thank you”.

I’m sorry if you cannot see the huge difference between the two.

Here are some examples of Mormons “bashing” Catholics. These words are much stronger than predator and some are from Mormon Church leaders. Gee is certainly joking around, but I thought you should hear Mormons that are doing more than just smiling and knocking on doors.

blog.mrm.org/2013/06/mormons-speaking-of-catholicism-surely-they-jest/

The Mormon President of Ohio State University announced his retirement last week amidst controversy over his anti-Catholic remarks. Gordon Gee has a long history of “verbal gaffes,” but his recent comments about “those damn Catholics” apparently crossed the line. According to news reports,

“’The fathers are holy on Sunday, and **they’re holy hell **on the rest of the week,’ Gee said to laughter at the Dec. 5 meeting attended by Athletic Director Gene Smith, several other athletic department members, professors and students.

**“’You just can’t trust those damn Catholics **on a Thursday or a Friday, and so, literally, I can say that,’ said Gee, a Mormon.”

“Secondly, it is objected that if the Church of Christ has not continued, then the gate of hell must have prevailed against her; and they refer us to that cheering passage in Matthew 16:18 which reads thus:—‘And I say also unto thee, that thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall riot prevail against it.’ They argue, that if the Church has ceased to exist, the gates of hell have prevailed over her and the promise of Jesus must be falsified.** But we would inform the Catholics, **that the Church of Christ has not ceased to exist, neither has Peter ceased his existence, but both the Church and Peter are in heaven, far out of the reach of the gates of hell, and far out of the reach of the abominable soul-destroying impositions of popery. The gates of hell have prevailed and will continue to prevail over the Catholic mother of harlots, and over all her Protestant daughters; but as for the l Church of Christ, she rests secure in the mansion of eternal happiness, where she will remain until **the apostate **Catholic church, with all her popes and bishops, together with all her harlot daughters shall be hurled down to hell; then it shall be said, ‘Rejoice over her thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her;’ and then shall be ‘heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia: salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God; for true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.’ And again they shall say, ‘Alleluia,’ and her smoke shall rise up for ever and ever. And thus when the **Catholics and Protestants **hear all the heavens, and all the holy apostles and prophets, rejoicing over the downfall of Babylon, they will learn that the Church of Christ still exists in heaven and that the gates of hell have not prevailed against her; then they will learn where the apostolical and prophetical power rests; then they will perceive the difference between the glory of the Church of Christ and the misery and wretchedness of their own fiery torments” (Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, 1850, No.3, p. 44).

“Christianity, as it is known in the world today, has fallen far short of the accomplishment of what might have been expected of it. It has failed in establishing those principles which Christ taught among the children of men. The great Catholic division of the Christian world,** the Catholic church, is a national liability to any country.** It wields a great power over the minds and the hearts of the children of men, but it is a power for evil rather than for good. It brings countless thousands regularly to confession; it rarely brings a single man to repentance and the abandonment of his sins” (Mormon Apostle Hyrum M. Smith, Conference Reports, October 1916, p. 42).

“Catholicism – See Church of the Devil” (Mormon Seventy Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p. 108).

“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church is the great corrupt ecclesiastic power,** represented by great Babylon** which has made all nations drunk with her wickedness, and she must fall, after she has been warned with the sound of ‘the everlasting gospel.’ Her overthrow will be by a series of the most terrible judgments which will quickly succeed each other, and sweep over the nations where she has her dominion, and at last she will be utterly burned by fire, for thus hath the Lord spoken. Great, and fearful, and most terrible judgments are decreed upon these **corrupt **powers, the nations of modern Christendom; for strong is the Lord God who shall execute His fierce wrath upon them, and He will not cease until He has made a full end, and until their names be blotted out from under heaven” (Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, No.6, pp. 84-85. Brackets in original).

 

[zaffiroborant]

Here are some examples of Mormons “bashing” Catholics. These words are much stronger than predator and some are from Mormon Church leaders. Gee is certainly joking around, but I thought you should hear Mormons that are doing more than just smiling and knocking on doors.

blog.mrm.org/2013/06/mormons-speaking-of-catholicism-surely-they-jest/

The Mormon President of Ohio State University announced his retirement last week amidst controversy over his anti-Catholic remarks. Gordon Gee has a long history of “verbal gaffes,” but his recent comments about “those damn Catholics” apparently crossed the line. According to news reports,

“’The fathers are holy on Sunday, and **they’re holy hell **on the rest of the week,’ Gee said to laughter at the Dec. 5 meeting attended by Athletic Director Gene Smith, several other athletic department members, professors and students.

**“’You just can’t trust those damn Catholics **on a Thursday or a Friday, and so, literally, I can say that,’ said Gee, a Mormon.”

“Secondly, it is objected that if the Church of Christ has not continued, then the gate of hell must have prevailed against her; and they refer us to that cheering passage in Matthew 16:18 which reads thus:—‘And I say also unto thee, that thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall riot prevail against it.’ They argue, that if the Church has ceased to exist, the gates of hell have prevailed over her and the promise of Jesus must be falsified.** But we would inform the Catholics, **that the Church of Christ has not ceased to exist, neither has Peter ceased his existence, but both the Church and Peter are in heaven, far out of the reach of the gates of hell, and far out of the reach of the abominable soul-destroying impositions of popery. The gates of hell have prevailed and will continue to prevail over the Catholic mother of harlots, and over all her Protestant daughters; but as for the l Church of Christ, she rests secure in the mansion of eternal happiness, where she will remain until **the apostate **Catholic church, with all her popes and bishops, together with all her harlot daughters shall be hurled down to hell; then it shall be said, ‘Rejoice over her thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her;’ and then shall be ‘heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia: salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God; for true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.’ And again they shall say, ‘Alleluia,’ and her smoke shall rise up for ever and ever. And thus when the **Catholics and Protestants **hear all the heavens, and all the holy apostles and prophets, rejoicing over the downfall of Babylon, they will learn that the Church of Christ still exists in heaven and that the gates of hell have not prevailed against her; then they will learn where the apostolical and prophetical power rests; then they will perceive the difference between the glory of the Church of Christ and the misery and wretchedness of their own fiery torments” (Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, 1850, No.3, p. 44).

“Christianity, as it is known in the world today, has fallen far short of the accomplishment of what might have been expected of it. It has failed in establishing those principles which Christ taught among the children of men. The great Catholic division of the Christian world,** the Catholic church, is a national liability to any country.** It wields a great power over the minds and the hearts of the children of men, but it is a power for evil rather than for good. It brings countless thousands regularly to confession; it rarely brings a single man to repentance and the abandonment of his sins” (Mormon Apostle Hyrum M. Smith, Conference Reports, October 1916, p. 42).

“Catholicism – See Church of the Devil” (Mormon Seventy Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p. 108).

“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church is the great corrupt ecclesiastic power,** represented by great Babylon** which has made all nations drunk with her wickedness, and she must fall, after she has been warned with the sound of ‘the everlasting gospel.’ Her overthrow will be by a series of the most terrible judgments which will quickly succeed each other, and sweep over the nations where she has her dominion, and at last she will be utterly burned by fire, for thus hath the Lord spoken. Great, and fearful, and most terrible judgments are decreed upon these **corrupt **powers, the nations of modern Christendom; for strong is the Lord God who shall execute His fierce wrath upon them, and He will not cease until He has made a full end, and until their names be blotted out from under heaven” (Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, No.6, pp. 84-85. Brackets in original).

Then there’s Talmage’s The Great Apstasy which LDS give glowing reviews and recommend as a true and accurate history.

 

[lax16]

I know how you feel lax. I lived in Utah while in collage and then in another predominantly LDS community after collage. I had trouble with a boss over the fact that I was openly Catholic while he was LDS. (In all fairness I’ve had LDS bosses where religion was never an issue) The one boss ordered my work schedule changed so I could not attend a couple of bible study groups during the week in the evenings. So I took a long sabbatical and eventually retired. I guess he didn’t believe this Catholic female could out think & out maneuver the powerful LDS boss man. Not only did he loose all my expertise, which was extensive, he had no one in the facility who knew my job.

When I was in the process of converting I had a conversation with a co-worker at lunch time about what I was doing. She asked and I answered. Another co-worker who was LDS asked if I had considered the LDS church when seeking one. I answered no and explained why. He nearly came unhinged at the idea someone wouldn’t even consider the LDS church. I calmly explained I was a Christian and no matter what church I went to it had to be a Christian Church. He ranted at me for several minutes, telling me he would “prove” the LDS church was the one true church. I just left the room and went back to my office. I stayed out of the break room after that.

So Jane do we “stereotype” the LDS based on a couple of examples? For most of us it’s no, we make a determination of typical behavior based on a lot of examples.

It’s hard to imagine things like this happening in a workplace over religion, but it certainly does here in Utah.

 

[lax16]

I’m sorry you had an unpleasant experience with a former LDS employer. I don’t believe he treated you appropriately. I can’t say I’ve sought out any serious anti-Mormon literature (i.e., Fawn Brodie). I do have “The Apostasy that Wasn’t” on my shelf, but haven’t started reading it yet. I have watched a very few anti videos referenced in this forum. I have enjoyed occasionally listening to youtube debates between Martin Tanner and Jim Wallace and between Martin Tanner and James White, FWIW.

I didn’t realize Fawn Brodie’s book was considered anti. I’ve not read it myself.

The Apostasy that Wasn’t is on my shelf as well. My son ordered and read it but I haven’t read it yet. I’m curious what your reaction will be. Is it geared towards refuting Mormon claims to the apostasy or is it more general?

Are the Tanner’s considered anti? They are very thorough and charitable in their research and I think considered reputable by most Mormons.

 

[lax16]

Then there’s Talmage’s The Great Apstasy which LDS give glowing reviews and recommend as a true and accurate history.

It is available as a free download here:

manybooks.net/download-ebook?tid=talmagej3551435514&book=1%3Apdf%3A.pdf%3Apdf

I downloaded a copy and have begun to read it.

 

[lax16]

When you live in Utah, and are not LDS, it most certainly feels like you and your family are prey. It takes great vigilance to ward off the constant and unwanted approaches, neighbors trying to convert your children, teenage co-workers who won’t leave your teen alone, missionaries showing up at your door asking for your underage children BY NAME, etc. All these things, we’ve experienced, and more.

Predatory is the right word, in its right definition of exploitive.

I know of two families where their under age children were being visited by missionaries when the parents were not there. One family, the dad waited for the missionaries one day and threatened to call the police if they ever came back. The other unsuspecting family (practicing Catholics) found out their son was baptized at 16 years old while he was in the hospital for an extended time.

If that is not the definition of predatory, then someone please give me a better word.

 

[Chris-WA]

Could you please point me to one or more of these warnings issued each General Conference?

Here is the link to the most recent General Conference: lds.org/general-conference?lang=eng

And here is the link to all General Conferences back to 1971: lds.org/general-conference/conferences?lang=eng

Thanks in advance…

Here is a recent one from the October 2015 General Conference. Elder Uchdorf discouraged members from going to the internet to get information about the church. He told an anecdotal story about how he went to the internet to research information about a medical procedure he underwent:
***Consequently I decided to expedite the healing process by undertaking my own Internet search. I suppose I expected to discover the truth of which my doctors were unaware or had tried to keep from me.

It took me a little while before I realized the irony of what I was doing. Of course, researching things for ourselves is not a bad idea. But I was disregarding truth I could rely on and instead found myself being drawn to the often-outlandish claims of Internet lore.

Sometimes, the truth may just seem too straightforward, too plain, and too simple for us to fully appreciate its great value. So we set aside what we have experienced and know to be true in pursuit of more mysterious or complicated information. Hopefully we will learn that when we chase after shadows, we are pursuing matters that have little substance and value***.

It may be a little coy on his part. LDS leaders don’t want to come across as mean on stage (except maybe for Packer who didn’t seem to care). You don’t have to be a genius to see what Uchdorf is saying to LDS members who go to the internet to find out information about the church:

1. If you do so you are disregarding truth.
2. Information about the church on the internet is outlandish (untrue).
3. Our gospel is plain and simple. The internet information about the church is mysterious and complicated (not worth your time).
4. Going to the internet for information about the church is like going into the shadows.
5. The information on the internet about the church has little substance and value (it’s full of lies).

In summary, this portion of Uchdorf’s talk was written specifically to discourage and make members feel guilty about researching the church on the internet. But it’s really the internet that has brought to light on a large scale the factual problems with the LDS church, especially its history.

Now you are crazy if you think I’m going to go through each and every conference talk to find more quotes like this. You can do that yourself. They are there. And don’t limit yourself to General Conference–you can find them in other talks as well.

 

[Chris-WA]

There is no prohibition against reading LDS history by non-LDS sources. An Ensign (official LDS publication) article by Elder Steven E. Snow (LDS Church Historian) here: lds.org/new-era/2013/06/balancing-church-history?lang=eng includes this quote…

*Certainly, the world has changed in the last generation or two. The Internet has put all kinds of information at our fingertips—good, bad, truthful, untruthful—including information on Church history. You can read a great deal about our history, but it’s important to read about it and understand it in context. The difficulty with some information online is that it’s out of context and you don’t really see the whole picture.

Information that tries to embarrass the Church is generally very subjective and unfair. We should seek sources that more objectively describe our beliefs and our history. Some websites are very mean-spirited and can be sensational in how they present the information. Look for sources by recognized and respected historians, whether they’re members of the Church or not.*

I hope this helps…

It doesn’t. He is out on a limb as far as the church goes. Ask any member about researching church history and they will tell you to keep to church websites and sources. They suspect everything else as being lies.

 

[jane_doe]

It doesn’t. He is out on a limb as far as the church goes. Ask any member about researching church history and they will tell you to keep to church websites and sources. They suspect everything else as being lies.

Do you have a statistical study backing up this broad stereotyping statement?

 

[lax16]

Do you have a statistical study backing up this broad stereotyping statement?

Not a statistical study, but an LDS church link:

lds.org/new-era/2007/07/qa-questions-and-answers?lang=eng

It seems to me anything that does not teach that the LDS church is true is anti-Mormon literature, right?

Question:

“One of my friends, who is active in the Church, has some anti-Mormon literature and thinks we should read it so we know how to respond to it. But I find that literature disturbing. What should I tell my friend?”

New Era

Say you would rather** read something you trust**, like the scriptures.
Spending a lot of time and energy reading anti-Mormon literature would be a waste.
If you run across it, discuss it with someone who is knowledgeable about the gospel.
Never take **anti-Mormon literature **at face value.
Honest inquiry is good, but everything needs a proper perspective and context.
**If the misrepresentations in anti-Mormon literature **really disturb you, then tell your friend how you feel so that he’ll leave you alone about it. Tell him you’d rather read something you trust, like the scriptures or Church publications.

Here are a couple of things to remember about anti-Mormon material.

First, it would be a waste to spend a lot of time and energy reading it. For one thing, it’s incredibly repetitive. Most of its questions and claims have been brought up—and answered—time and time again for over 100 years. But because anti-Mormon authors want to discredit the Church, they keep writing the same stuff over and over in the hope that they can reach a new audience. For another thing, you may not have the knowledge and experience to successfully investigate and counter all of the arguments they make. If you do end up reading something that criticizes the Church, discuss it with someone you trust who is knowledgeable in the gospel, like your parents, bishop, or seminary teacher. They can help you find answers and, more importantly, put things in proper perspective.

Second, you should never take the claims of anti-Mormon literature at face value. Although some critics of the Church may be doing what they sincerely believe to be right, too many of them are either misinformed about the Church or downright antagonistic toward it. This latter group is often all too willing to rely on deception and dishonesty to achieve their goals. The literature they produce often uses lies or half-truths; it distorts, sensationalizes, or misinterprets Church teachings and history; its intent is to tear down the Church and scare people away from it.

Think of how you feel when you read the Book of Mormon, pray, or bear your testimony. How do those feelings compare with the feelings that come from reading anti-Mormon literature? Which is guiding you to the truth?

We’re not against honest inquiry in the Church. We welcome it. The Apostle Paul said, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “One of the grand fundamental principles of ‘Mormonism’ is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may” (History of the Church, 5:499). As we search for truth in Church teachings and history, we should remember that it is faith in Christ that helps us to “lay hold upon every good thing” (see Moroni 7:15–25). And we should keep everything in its proper perspective and context. President Gordon B. Hinckley has said:

“We seem to have a host of critics. Some appear intent on trying to destroy us. They mock that which is sacred. They belittle that which we call divine. Some have said that we are trapped by our history, others have worked with great diligence seeking flaws in our early leaders. …

“My plea is that as we continue our search for truth, particularly we of the Church, that we look for strength and goodness rather than weakness and foibles in those who did so great a work in their time. …

“… I hope that we will cultivate an attitude of looking for positive elements which lead to growth and enthusiasm. We are not trapped by our history. That history contains the foundation of this work. …

“I do not fear truth. I welcome it. But I wish all of my facts to be in their proper context” (“The Continuing Pursuit of Truth,” Ensign, Apr. 1986, 4–6).

President Gordon B. Hinckley
“The present effort of trying to find some other explanation for the organization of the Church, for the origin of the Book of Mormon, and for the priesthood with its keys and powers will be similar to other anti-Mormon fads which have come and blossomed and faded. Truth will prevail. A knowledge of that truth comes by effort and study, yes. But it comes primarily as a gift from God to those who seek in faith.” President Gordon B. Hinckley, “Lord, Increase Our Faith,” Ensign, Nov. 1987, 52–53.

 

[Chris-WA]

Do you have a statistical study backing up this broad stereotyping statement?

Now you are being ridiculous. Talk to any ex-Mo. Mention your interest in researching Mormonism from non-church approved sources at your next Sunday school class. See how that goes over.

 

[jane_doe]

Now you are being ridiculous. Talk to any ex-Mo. Mention your interest in researching Mormonism from non-church approved sources at your next Sunday school class. See how that goes over.

I’m just being factual. Sorry if that upset you.

 

[Horton]

Not a statistical study, but an LDS church link:

lds.org/new-era/2007/07/qa-questions-and-answers?lang=eng

It seems to me anything that does not teach that the LDS church is true is anti-Mormon literature, right?

Question:

“One of my friends, who is active in the Church, has some anti-Mormon literature and thinks we should read it so we know how to respond to it. But I find that literature disturbing. What should I tell my friend?”

New Era

Say you would rather** read something you trust**, like the scriptures.
Spending a lot of time and energy reading anti-Mormon literature would be a waste.
If you run across it, discuss it with someone who is knowledgeable about the gospel.
Never take **anti-Mormon literature **at face value.
Honest inquiry is good, but everything needs a proper perspective and context.
**If the misrepresentations in anti-Mormon literature **really disturb you, then tell your friend how you feel so that he’ll leave you alone about it. Tell him you’d rather read something you trust, like the scriptures or Church publications.

Here are a couple of things to remember about anti-Mormon material.

First, it would be a waste to spend a lot of time and energy reading it. For one thing, it’s incredibly repetitive. Most of its questions and claims have been brought up—and answered—time and time again for over 100 years. But because anti-Mormon authors want to discredit the Church, they keep writing the same stuff over and over in the hope that they can reach a new audience. For another thing, you may not have the knowledge and experience to successfully investigate and counter all of the arguments they make. If you do end up reading something that criticizes the Church, discuss it with someone you trust who is knowledgeable in the gospel, like your parents, bishop, or seminary teacher. They can help you find answers and, more importantly, put things in proper perspective.In other words, don’t read anything negative about the church. If you do and believe what you read you are just too stupid to know it’s bad.

Second, you should never take the claims of anti-Mormon literature at face value. Although some critics of the Church may be doing what they sincerely believe to be right, too many of them are either misinformed about the Church or downright antagonistic toward it. This latter group is often all too willing to rely on deception and dishonesty to achieve their goals. The literature they produce often uses lies or half-truths; it distorts, sensationalizes, or misinterprets Church teachings and history; its intent is to tear down the Church and scare people away from it.Oh the irony here!

Think of how you feel when you read the Book of Mormon, pray, or bear your testimony. How do those feelings compare with the feelings that come from reading anti-Mormon literature? Which is guiding you to the truth?

We’re not against honest inquiry in the Church. We welcome it. Seriously?The Apostle Paul said, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “One of the grand fundamental principles of ‘Mormonism’ is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may” (History of the Church, 5:499). As we search for truth in Church teachings and history, we should remember that it is faith in Christ that helps us to “lay hold upon every good thing” (see Moroni 7:15–25). And we should keep everything in its proper perspective and context. President Gordon B. Hinckley has said:

“We seem to have a host of critics. Some appear intent on trying to destroy us. They mock that which is sacred. They belittle that which we call divine. Some have said that we are trapped by our history, others have worked with great diligence seeking flaws in our early leaders. …

“My plea is that as we continue our search for truth, particularly we of the Church, that we look for strength and goodness rather than weakness and foibles in those who did so great a work in their time. …

“… I hope that we will cultivate an attitude of looking for positive elements which lead to growth and enthusiasm. We are not trapped by our history. That history contains the foundation of this work. …

“I do not fear truth. I welcome it. But I wish all of my facts to be in their proper context” Again seriously?(“The Continuing Pursuit of Truth,” Ensign, Apr. 1986, 4–6).

President Gordon B. Hinckley
“The present effort of trying to find some other explanation for the organization of the Church, for the origin of the Book of Mormon, and for the priesthood with its keys and powers will be similar to other anti-Mormon fads which have come and blossomed and faded. Truth will prevail. A knowledge of that truth comes by effort and study, yes. But it comes primarily as a gift from God to those who seek in faith.” President Gordon B. Hinckley, “Lord, Increase Our Faith,” Ensign, Nov. 1987, 52–53.

Bolding and red mine.

This would indicate the LDS do NOT want members searching & learning on their own.

 

[kdbueno]

The theology regarding this is simple, only God has divinity. For creatures to have it is a heresy.

 

[Chris-WA]

Great post! Pretty much puts to rest any doubt that the Mormon church actively tries to keep its members from researching outside of official church channels. I decided to add some comments to each of the points made by New Era.

Not a statistical study, but an LDS church link:

It seems to me anything that does not teach that the LDS church is true is anti-Mormon literature, right?

Question:

“One of my friends, who is active in the Church, has some anti-Mormon literature and thinks we should read it so we know how to respond to it. But I find that literature disturbing. What should I tell my friend?”

New Era

Say you would rather read something you trust, like the scriptures.
Spending a lot of time and energy reading anti-Mormon literature would be a waste.

How can you assume it’s a waste? What if that literature is telling the truth? Isn’t truth more important than whether it’s “anti.”?

If you run across it, discuss it with someone who is knowledgeable about the gospel. Never take anti-Mormon literature at face value.

Of course “anti” Mormon literature is all a lie right? Find someone at the church to immediately refute it so you won’t look anymore.

Honest inquiry is good, but everything needs a proper perspective and context.

Translation: It’s only honest inquiry if you accept the proper perspective, which is, of course, the church’s. Only the church’s perspective is honest.

If the misrepresentations in anti-Mormon literature really disturb you, then tell your friend how you feel so that he’ll leave you alone about it. Tell him you’d rather read something you trust, like the scriptures or Church publications.

Oh I see we have already concluded that the “anti” literature is false. We haven’t read the literature. We don’t know what it says. But it must be false, because after all, it’s not from a church-approved source.

Here are a couple of things to remember about anti-Mormon material.

First, it would be a waste to spend a lot of time and energy reading it. For one thing, it’s incredibly repetitive. Most of its questions and claims have been brought up—and answered—time and time again for over 100 years. But because anti-Mormon authors want to discredit the Church, they keep writing the same stuff over and over in the hope that they can reach a new audiencep

Or perhaps maybe the reason they keep bringing up the questions is because the church’s answers ARE SO LAME. Not answers at all, but circular logic, denial, omission, misdirection, and outright nonsensical jibberish. Even the new church essays, buried in hard-to-find locations so the average Mormon won’t come across them, have the same problems. They never really answer the questions. That’s why so many LDS are struggling. They just want the truth, but the church won’t give it to them. Ask Jeremy Runnells, author of Letter to a CES Director. He pleaded with his local leaders for months and months to answer his questions as he struggled with his faith. They never would. Instead he got an excommunication court of love just last month. Here is a video of it:
youtube.com/watch?v=KJXTLdzD7Sg

For another thing, you may not have the knowledge and experience to successfully investigate and counter all of the arguments they make. If you do end up reading something that criticizes the Church, discuss it with someone you trust who is knowledgeable in the gospel, like your parents, bishop, or seminary teacher. They can help you find answers and, more importantly, put things in proper perspective.

Good luck with that, because if you’re asking the really tough questions, they will not have good answers. They will have to go the “proper perspective” route, which is code for telling you that you can’t trust anything not from an official church-approved sources, and if you continue in this course of action there must be something wrong with you.

(cont).

 

[Chris-WA]

(cont.)

Second, you should never take the claims of anti-Mormon literature at face value.

Quite right. Keep digging. Don’t take anything at face value, even if it’s from the church. Keep researching until your questions are answered. Don’t accept lame answers.

Although some critics of the Church may be doing what they sincerely believe to be right, too many of them are either misinformed about the Church or downright antagonistic toward it. This latter group is often all too willing to rely on deception and dishonesty to achieve their goals. The literature they produce often uses lies or half-truths; it distorts, sensationalizes, or misinterprets Church teachings and history;

Actually, most of them are sincere, intelligent people who are struggling with the faith and just want the truth. They feel heartbroken that there seems to be no one who can answer their questions reasonably. They feel deceived. They are hurt. But they are seeking for truth no matter where it takes them. Many of the things you call-half truths are now admitted to in the new church essays. They have excommunicated members for spreading information they now admit is true.

its intent is to tear down the Church and scare people away from it.

No, most of the time the intent is to seek the truth and find it wherever it may be. Often that is not found directly in the church because the church has been so dishonest about these tough issues.

Think of how you feel when you read the Book of Mormon, pray, or bear your testimony. How do those feelings compare with the feelings that come from reading anti-Mormon literature? Which is guiding you to the truth?

This may be the dumbest thing said in the answer. So how something makes you feel is supposed to tell you whether it’s true or not? Of course LDS are going to feel bad when they first read “anti” materials. It’s basic psychology. When you contemplate something that challenges what you have believed to be true all of your life, your natural reaction is to feel sick to your stomach. It doesn’t mean it’s a lie. It just means you don’t like what you are hearing.

We’re not against honest inquiry in the Church. We welcome it.

LDS say this often, but they don’t really mean it. Ask anybody who has ever struggled with these questions and tried to get answers. You can ask questions, but if you don’t accept the initial simple answer that makes no sense, then you’re the problem, not the church.

 

[Horton]

lax16 and Chris-WA have clinched it.

 

[RebeccaJ]

When you live in Utah, and are not LDS, it most certainly feels like you and your family are prey. It takes great vigilance to ward off the constant and unwanted approaches, neighbors trying to convert your children, teenage co-workers who won’t leave your teen alone, missionaries showing up at your door asking for your underage children BY NAME, etc. All these things, we’ve experienced, and more.

Predatory is the right word, in its right definition of exploitive.

I passed by a Book of Mormon today during our Corpus Christi procession. It was left outside the front door of our church, for someone to “find”.