Water Baptism NOT Necessary for Salvation!

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:confused: Are you saying that Jesus did not know what was to come?
That is not what I said. I said He did not walk around like God. Jesus did not use any of His divine powers. Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit and was guided by Him. However, Jesus could have used His divine powers if He wanted to but chose not to.

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
 
No I don’t. Please explain using scripture.
Um, thanks for giving me a homework assignment and telling me which sources I may or may not use, but my point was that you are commenting on something that you do not understand. Since you are the one choosing to comment on something that you don’t understand, perhaps you should be the one to do the research. I suggest you do a word search for the phrase “baptism of desire” and learn what it means before commenting further on it.
 
Um, thanks for giving me a homework assignment and telling me which sources I may or may not use, but my point was that you are commenting on something that you do not understand. Since you are the one choosing to comment on something that you don’t understand, perhaps you should be the one to do the research. I suggest you do a word search for the phrase “baptism of desire” and learn what it means before commenting further on it.
Thank you for a very Catholic answer.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
 
Thank you for a very Catholic answer.
What, it’s a “Catholic” answer to suggest that you learn the facts before commenting? Are you saying that non-Catholics don’t learn the facts before they make comments? What an odd thing to say.
 
God said “baptism now saves” and I believe God.
As do I. Which is why I said baptism saves 100% of the time yet you seemed to object to that statement.
Your church has taken John’s baptism and turned it into more than it is. It was the baptism of repentance. The Jews were baptized UNTO repentance.
No. We have not taken John’s baptism and turned it into anything. We take the words of Christ literally and He tells us baptism now saves us. We understand that Jesus showed us that He wishes us to be baptized, and that through baptism, God cleanses our soul and gives us the free gift of Grace.

You misunderstand what the Catholics understand baptism to be. It is not a work of man, but a miracle of God.

An adult would enter our church in the same way one would enter yours. We just realize the truth of the apostolic teachings and scripture that does not deny children from entering into the New Covenant with God based on the faith and repentance of the parents just as infants entered into the Jewish faith.

Keep not the little children from Him.
Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Which is what we teach baptism to be.
Water baptism is nothing more than the putting away of filth of the flesh.
You doubt that God can heal the soul through any means He desires?
Jesus said… The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Yes.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
The Catholic Church does not teach that baptism is an outward cleansing. It is an outward sign of an inward change. A change and gift that can be given to anyone.
Believe the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Repentance leads to the answer of a good conscience toward God.
Yes.
A truly baptized person is saved.
But a “truly” baptized person can use their free will and reject God at anytime, losing their salvation.
 
What, it’s a “Catholic” answer to suggest that you learn the facts before commenting? Are you saying that non-Catholics don’t learn the facts before they make comments? What an odd thing to say.
Where exactly should I go to learn these facts?
 
What, it’s a “Catholic” answer to suggest that you learn the facts before commenting? Are you saying that non-Catholics don’t learn the facts before they make comments? What an odd thing to say.
Isnt it good to ask a catholic what a catholic doctrine means though? I mean if you had a question about one of our beliefs you would ask us–right?

We are always expected to give an answer I would think you guys should be held to the same standard as well.👍 If you dont know the answer just say so it is ok to admit when you dont know something. Heck I dont know the whole bible–Ive only been studying it for 4 years and am finding out the more I learn the more I realize I dont know.:o
 
As do I. Which is why I said baptism saves 100% of the time yet you seemed to object to that statement.

No. We have not taken John’s baptism and turned it into anything. We take the words of Christ literally and He tells us baptism now saves us. We understand that Jesus showed us that He wishes us to be baptized, and that through baptism, God cleanses our soul and gives us the free gift of Grace.

You misunderstand what the Catholics understand baptism to be. It is not a work of man, but a miracle of God.

An adult would enter our church in the same way one would enter yours. We just realize the truth of the apostolic teachings and scripture that does not deny children from entering into the New Covenant with God based on the faith and repentance of the parents just as infants entered into the Jewish faith.

Keep not the little children from Him.

Which is what we teach baptism to be.

You doubt that God can heal the soul through any means He desires?

Yes.

The Catholic Church does not teach that baptism is an outward cleansing. It is an outward sign of an inward change. A change and gift that can be given to anyone.

Yes.

But a “truly” baptized person can use their free will and reject God at anytime, losing their salvation.
So you believe that babies are baptized with the Holy Spirit during water baptism?
 
Isnt it good to ask a catholic what a catholic doctrine means though? I mean if you had a question about one of our beliefs you would ask us–right?

We are always expected to give an answer I would think you guys should be held to the same standard as well.👍 If you dont know the answer just say so it is ok to admit when you dont know something. Heck I dont know the whole bible–Ive only been studying it for 4 years and am finding out the more I learn the more I realize I dont know.:o
Yeah, you’re right. It is good to ask a Catholic. I was responding more to the manner of the question than to its content.

Baptism of desire is simply the idea that baptism is credited to a person who would have received baptism if they had the chance. For instance, Archbishop Fulton Sheen told a vivid story of a woman who was in RCIA preparing to become a Catholic and asked, “Suppose I died tonight, would I be unable to enter heaven?” He told her she would enter heaven because she desired baptism and intended it as soon as possible but simply hadn’t had the opportunity yet. As it happens, she DID die that night. Since she intended to be baptized, but hadn’t had a chance through no fault of her own, baptism would be credited to her.

Make sense?
 
So far you have said that baptism now saves but only if a baby dies immediately after baptism.

Ok then… if that same baby were to live and not sin ever in his/her life… is that person saved?
 
For a second there I thought you were going to use scripture to reproof me. I’ll stick with God’s Word.
You can’t have it both ways. Either you are willing to learn what Catholics believe before commenting, or you aren’t. If you are unwilling to bother learning what we believe about baptism of desire, then you lack enough information to comment on it.
 
For a second there I thought you were going to use scripture to reproof me. I’ll stick with God’s Word.
…or at least the parts of it that don’t force you out of the comfort zone of your own personal, presupposed theology.
 
You can’t have it both ways. Either you are willing to learn what Catholics believe before commenting, or you aren’t. If you are unwilling to bother learning what we believe about baptism of desire, then you lack enough information to comment on it.
I already understand that you believe in the baptism of desire. But I’m going to tell you now… there is no such thing as the baptism of desire. Not you or any one of you here can prove it with scripture.
 
…or at least the parts of it that don’t force you out of the comfort zone of your own personal, presupposed theology.
I really do mean this with respect… but I’d like to use your post as perfect example of a catholic answer. You’ve posted No scriptural reproof whatsoever. I have no problem with being corrected… just use scripture. But know this… I have every intention of reproofing you too with scripture.
 
Yeah, you’re right. It is good to ask a Catholic. I was responding more to the manner of the question than to its content.

Baptism of desire is simply the idea that baptism is credited to a person who would have received baptism if they had the chance. For instance, Archbishop Fulton Sheen told a vivid story of a woman who was in RCIA preparing to become a Catholic and asked, “Suppose I died tonight, would I be unable to enter heaven?” He told her she would enter heaven because she desired baptism and intended it as soon as possible but simply hadn’t had the opportunity yet. As it happens, she DID die that night. Since she intended to be baptized, but hadn’t had a chance through no fault of her own, baptism would be credited to her.

Make sense?
Hi,
Yes it makes sense from a human standpoint, but unfortunately it doesnt make sense from a scriptural standpoint. What the Priest should have told this woman is if she has accepted Christ as her Lord and Savior and repented of her sins then she would be in heaven. That would be scriptural.👍 Baptism alone without what I just mentioned would not have gotten(is that a word?)her there and she would have been sorely disappointed. I hope she did do this so she can be with the Lord.😃
 
I already understand that you believe in the baptism of desire. But I’m going to tell you now… there is no such thing as the baptism of desire. Not you or any one of you here can prove it with scripture.
I would like to see what they can come up with though.😉 Of course I agree with you.👍
 
Hi,
Yes it makes sense from a human standpoint, but unfortunately it doesnt make sense from a scriptural standpoint. What the Priest should have told this woman is if she has accepted Christ as her Lord and Savior and repented of her sins then she would be in heaven. That would be scriptural.👍 Baptism alone without what I just mentioned would not have gotten(is that a word?)her there and she would have been sorely disappointed. I hope she did do this so she can be with the Lord.😃
Hi AllforHim! Now that’s scriptural.
 
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