WAY beyond a "Folk Mass"

[Oneofthewomen]

I don’t understand the question.

I often hear people say “We are standing at Calvery! would there be this kind of music there?”, when a musical style they don’t like is being used at Mass.

Well, to be truthful, Calvery would have been a noisy, smelly place with lots of heckling & commotion. It was a place of public execution for criminals of the state. Have you ever seen what goes on in the US outside a prison when the death penealty is being imposed? Sadly, it is almost “carnival-like”. I imagine it was the same way is Jesus’ time.

And as I said, the first time I saw the body of a murder victim, at the murder scene, I threw up. Do you understand my comment now?

 

[nodito]

I don’t understand the question.

Oneofthewomen is saying that if she were actually at Calvary, she would feel physically sick, because it would be horrendous to watch Jesus’ crucifixion. If we are to behave at Mass exactly as we would have behaved at Calvary, is it appropriate to throw up in Church?

A bit of an exageration, I agree, but there’s a point to it. There are things we do at Mass that would never have been done at the foot of the cross, e.g., the sign of peace, the offeratory, singing about the resurrection, etc. I think a case can be made for including loud, contemporary music at Mass. It has the potential to be just as sacred and inspiring as Gregorian chant, in some contexts.

 

[Kerry77]

Thanks for your comments everyone, all interesting.

To answer a few questions…it definitely wasn’t a Lifeteen Mass. And I’ve been at those before. The only thing that was substantially different at the Lifeteen Mass that I went to was the music (played by the teens).

I’m not really interested in reporting it per se. It’s not my parish and I will let the hundreds of people who were there deal with that! I guess I bring it here because I was just curious as to what it was exactly, if that makes sense. In other words, was it some “type” of Mass that I currently was unaware of? And is all that stuff allowed? It was just so different from anything I have ever been to, and as I said, I grew up in the 80s. I attended plenty of folk Masses, but the only thing that was so different were the four songs. A guitar during the Eucharistic Prayer?

Also the question about the parish being run by an order…is that the difference?

I will say the people there seemed to be getting a lot out of it. The music wasn’t rock per se, although an amped guitar and drums certainly puts it there, it was more like that contemporary Christian rock-worship music? There were at least two songs by Matt Maher, who from a quick google, seems to be a Christian rock artist.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Because of it’s the Sacrifice of the Mass. We’re at Calvary. I don’t think we would all be standing there making noise when Christ is dying for me and you.

Think about it. It’s the truth.

What Mass are you attending that has no noise?

 

[LittleHannah]

I often hear people say “We are standing at Calvery! would there be this kind of music there?”, when a musical style they don’t like is being used at Mass.

Well, to be truthful, Calvery would have been a noisy, smelly place with lots of heckling & commotion. It was a place of public execution for criminals of the state. Have you ever seen what goes on in the US outside a prison when the death penealty is being imposed? Sadly, it is almost “carnival-like”. I imagine it was the same way is Jesus’ time.

And as I said, the first time I saw the body of a murder victim, at the murder scene, I threw up. Do you understand my comment now?

Yes, I do. The point is there should be reverence. Our Salvation was accomplished at Calvary.

Is that an insult to the Body of Christ? At, Calvary I don’t think I would be throwing up watching God die to save us. I would be weeping like Mary was.

Also, look down though the centuries. They had sacred music. Not noisy rock that belongs at a concert, and not Holy Mass. Rock would have been unheard of, mainly because it didn’t exist and even if it did, it wouldn’t have been used. It’s not worshiping God.

I’m sure you understand that God deserves the very best.

God bless.

 

[nodito]

I guess I bring it here because I was just curious as to what it was exactly, if that makes sense.

Was it at a parish that has a large foreign population? Did it have an ethnic feel to it? Could they have imported traditions from other countries? When I was in the Philipines, the Masses had a very different feel to them. Same in India and the UAE.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

But that isn’t what the OP described. There was no rock singer thrashing around.

Now, I don’t agree with the music the OP described, but we don’t need to exaggerate to make our point.

Yeah, for a minute there, I was picturing Ronnie James Dio (RIP) performing “Holy God We Praise Thy Name” with all of his usual antics.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Being a parish run by an order could have an impact on the Mass. I don’t know enough about it to be sure, but I do know that certain orders are allowed to had certain “charisms”. Again do not know the "why’s & how’s, only that it could be a possiblity.

Thanks for your comments everyone, all interesting.

To answer a few questions…it wasn’t a Lifeteen Mass. I’ve been at those before. The only thing that was substantially different at the Lifeteen Mass that I went to was the music (played by the teens).

I’m not really interested in reporting it per se. It’s not my parish and I will let the hundreds of people who were there deal with that! I guess I bring it here because I was just curious as to what it was exactly, if that makes sense. In other words, was it some “type” of Mass that I currently was unaware of? And is all that stuff allowed? It was just so different from anything I have ever been to, and as I said, I grew up in the 80s. I attended plenty of folk Masses, but the only thing that was so different were the four songs. A guitar during the Eucharistic Prayer?

Also the question about the parish being run by an order…is that the difference?

I will say the people there seemed to be getting a lot out of it. The music wasn’t rock per se, although an amped guitar and drums certainly puts it there, it was more like that contemporary Christian rock-worship music?

 

[LittleHannah]

What Mass are you attending that has no noise?

I classified rock as noise. It is in my opinion. Gregorian chant is beautiful or anything that can be made beautiful and worthy of God.

 

[Kerry77]

Was it at a parish that has a large foreign population? Did it have an ethnic feel to it? Could they have imported traditions from other countries? When I was in the Philipines, the Masses had a very different feel to them. Same in India and the UAE.

Good question. It seemed to be the general mix that you find around here, mostly white, some Latino and Filipino.

 

[PatriceA]

Yes, I do. The point is there should be reverence. Our Salvation was accomplished at Calvary.

Is that an insult to the Body of Christ? At, Calvary I don’t think I would be throwing up watching God die to save us. I would be weeping like Mary was.

Also, look down though the centuries. They had sacred music. Not noisy rock that belongs at a concert, and not Holy Mass. Rock would have been unheard of, mainly because it didn’t exist and even if it did, it wouldn’t have been used. It’s not worshiping God.

I’m sure you understand that God deserves the very best.

God bless.

But “the very best” is subjective, given the place, the time and the people involved. Thank God our Church is big enough for everyone and their tastes. Its not one size fit all.

This topic comes up at CAF over and over again, same as what people wear to Mass, and we will never all agree on either issue.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Kerry77:

I will say the people there seemed to be getting a lot out of it. The music wasn’t rock per se, although an amped guitar and drums certainly puts it there, it was more like that contemporary Christian rock-worship music? There were at least two songs by Matt Maher, who from a quick google, seems to be a Christian rock artist.

Matt Maher? We’re talkin’ about Matt Maher? (Doing my best Allen Iverson impression)

Haha. That certainly isn’t a Dionysian feast or anything…

LittleHannah:

I classified rock as noise. It is in my opinion.

My mistake, I thought you meant “no noise” in the literal sense, not the derogatory one. You can imagine how much fun I was having with that one. In all seriousness, though, try to imagine a Mass without any noise at all. I guess it wouldn’t be Mass at that point, but it would be kinda cool.

 

[Kerry77]

Here is more on Matt Maher, he was the composer of two of the songs on the “Worship Aid”…turns out he is Catholic

Matt Maher is a contemporary worship leader in the Catholic faith. Since most people outside of the Catholic faith find “contemporary worship” and “Catholic” to be two things they would never associate as going together, I asked Matt to describe himself and what he does for me. Here is what he had to say …
“I’m a worship leader out of Mesa Arizona. Primarily I work full time at a church. I’ve done some touring and traveling over the years, but I work 20 hours a week as a worship leader and 20 hours a week as young adult minister. I lead a college Bible study. It’s a Catholic Church, which kind of surprises a lot of people. The joy that I really feel, as part of my ministry, is that I’ve been kind of going out more and traveling and working with different people breaking down those stereotypes because people have a lot of Catholic stereotypes. I’m just letting them know that there is a generation, now rising, of Catholics who recognize the gift of Salvation that’s been given to them and that see the need for a daily relationship with Jesus and pursue it. And pursue Him actively in His Word, and also pursue it in the Sacrament. Primarily, I think the way that God has been using me to reach out to people is through worship. I think there’s kind of a format that’s developed. I lead worship every week. I do a mass every Sunday night at 6 PM at my church, Saint Tims, and on Tuesday nights we do a thing called XLT. Basically what it is is a gathering for high school and college students. It’s consistent with about 40 minutes of worship, 20 to 25 minutes of teaching and about 25 to 30 minutes of Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. It’s been really powerful to see that happen and to see these different elements kind of from post-modern culture and Christianity, not clashing, but colliding with something as ancient and ritualistic as the Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. And it’s been phenomenal to see the fruit come from that. I just got off the phone this morning and found out that I was asked this fall to Atlanta to the NCYC, which is the National Catholic Youth Conference. It’s the largest single Catholic youth conference in the world, or maybe it’s just North America. I mean, there’s World Youth Day, but a straight-up conference for high school students, I think this is the largest one in the world. We’re going to do a XLT worship night in an auditorium that seats 15000 people. It will be sometime in November or December. So I’m already excited. I’ve done a lot of work throughout the country with a ministry called Life Teen, which is a parish based youth ministry program that’s designed to help provide and develop resources for youth ministers to reach their teens and lead them to Christ. I’ve mostly just done music with them. I’ve also worked with the Franciscan University of Steubenville at the summer youth conferences. I’ve led worship at a couple of those. So that’s kind of what I do. It’s kind of a big myriad or a smattering of things.

Ok, so maybe it was a “Matt Maher” style Mass?

 

[SecretaryMonday]

http://mirthbomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Christian-Rock.jpg

 

[nodito]

Ok, so maybe it was a “Matt Maher” style Mass?

I don’t think he has his own style of Mass. For the record, Matt Maher records some beautiful songs. His Litany of the Saints is gorgeous. Truly worthy of heaven.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Have you ever seen a murder victim, or someone who is being executed?
It’s nice to think, *“Oh I would be like this…”, *but until you are actually in the situation, you have ***NO IDEA ***of how you will react.

As far a deserving “the best” who are you to decide what is “the best”?
Again, not in your “pay-grade”.
I love plainchant, but Gregorian chant reminds me more of my party days in the 1990’s when there was a “cross-over” of chant from some Benedictine monks that became very popular in the gaming/party scene I was involved with at the time.
So when I hear*** Gregorian ***chant, the last thing I am thinking of is Mass!

That’s the beauty part of the Catholic church, we have such a rich tapestry of musical styles, charisms & spiritualities. It is not a “one-size-fits-all” instituion, and it never should be!

Yes, I do. The point is there should be reverence. Our Salvation was accomplished at Calvary.

Is that an insult to the Body of Christ? At, Calvary I don’t think I would be throwing up watching God die to save us. I would be weeping like Mary was.

Also, look down though the centuries. They had sacred music. Not noisy rock that belongs at a concert, and not Holy Mass. Rock would have been unheard of, mainly because it didn’t exist and even if it did, it wouldn’t have been used. It’s not worshiping God.

I’m sure you understand that God deserves the very best.

God bless.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

http://mirthbomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Christian-Rock.jpg

That about sums it up!

Congratulations, you win 1 internet.

 

[LittleHannah]

Have you ever seen a murder victim, or someone who is being executed?
It’s nice to think, *“Oh I would be like this…”, *but until you are actually in the situation, you have ***NO IDEA ***of how you will react.

As far a deserving “the best” who are you to decide what is “the best”?
Again, not in your “pay-grade”.
I love plainchant, but Gregorian chant reminds me more of my party days in the 1990’s when there was a “cross-over” of chant from some Benedictine monks that became very popular in the gaming/party scene I was involved with at the time.
So when I hear*** Gregorian ***chant, the last thing I am thinking of is Mass!

That’s the beauty part of the Catholic church, we have such a rich tapestry of musical styles, charims & spiritualities. It is not a “one-size-fits-all” instituion, and it never should be!

I’m not deciding what’s best here.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I’m not deciding what’s best here.

Oh, really?

I classified rock as noise. It is in my opinion. Gregorian chant is beautiful or anything that can be made beautiful and worthy of God.

I just shared with you why I don’t like Gregorian chant.
On the other hand, I love Matt Mahar!

So, given the choice of a Mass with music by Matt Mahar or one with Gregorian chant- I would take Matt Mahar anyday!

Just a little advice from someone older & wiser,*** stop talking in absolutes***. The Chruch does not, especially in matters such as music, so neither should we.

 

[RoseMary131]

Thanks for your comments everyone, all interesting.

I’m not really interested in reporting it per se.

I guess I bring it here because I was just curious as to what it was exactly, if that makes sense. In other words, was it some “type” of Mass that I currently was unaware of? And is all that stuff allowed?
Also the question about the parish being run by an order…is that the difference?

I will say the people there seemed to be getting a lot out of it. The music wasn’t rock per se, although an amped guitar and drums certainly puts it there,.

Since none of us reading your message was there…we can’t tell you “what it was exactly”.

You can get lots of detail from people’s opinion by “what they think you are describing” and what “they think about it being allowed (based on what they think you are saying)”. You may get more opinions than facts.

Diocesan and orders may make a difference, as will as culture, and understanding of the music minister and lots of other variables…

The best place to start for understanding this is with the priest from that Mass. You will understand from his view point, not from our viewpoints since we were not there.

In fact, you will see that your version of the Mass changed into a different version as others added their details.

In your first post you wrote: “the cantor jumps up on the altar and the rock music starts going again. I mean rock music.”

I know you did not mean to “paint” anything extra into the description of the Mass, but even with the “jumps up on the altar” adds “flare” that may not have been the correct verb. (Or maybe the cantor did physically jump.) Sometimes we express ideas that we didn’t really intend. Then the reader sees something that those in the pew did not see. Then you get opinions on things that weren’t taking place.

You have a wonderful heart to seek the truth and understanding on what you saw as something different than you have experienced at Mass before.