WAY beyond a "Folk Mass"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kerry77
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Great!

Now give them a quiz on basic catholicism. And…maybe get a group together on Monday to see what they thought about the gospel and homily.
You really want to keep going? because I can.

6 AM bible studies before school–optional and highly attended. Also attending early morning daily masses.

Lifenights every SUnday night covering all sorts of topics such as sexual issues, theology of the body, chastity, Eucharist, Sacraments.

Adoration nights once a month that have hundreds attending. Teens with their own holy hours. High schoolers beginnig prayer groups on their own at schools. High schoolers requesting a rosary group before their regularly weekly scheduled prayer nights.

The facebook group often has comments about the homily the days after Sunday mass.
 
Great!

Now give them a quiz on basic catholicism. And…maybe get a group together on Monday to see what they thought about the gospel and homily.
With all due respect, this could be applied to any segment of the population. Attending a Mass where the Communion hymn is Panis Angelicus or even the proper antiphon in no way entails that one will be more well-catechized than attending Mass where Matt Maher’s song Rememberance is the communion hymn. I would very much like those of you, who by your own admission do not listen to his music, to listen to the following song and explain to me why it is unfit for a Communion hymn.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=fVk7jhvhrLY

This is general, not an absolute, statement, but the reality is that among high schoolers, there are those who have been evangelized by Steubenville conferences, NCYC, Life Teen, World Youth Day and the like, and there are those who are gone.

We celebrate the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite in our parish every Sunday and it doesn’t take more than my two hands to count the number of people under twenty there. Yet, as I said, with little effort, in fact we had to turn people away, our diocese was able to just register over 400 youth for the Steubenville Mid-America conference.
 
You really want to keep going? because I can.

6 AM bible studies before school–optional and highly attended. Also attending early morning daily masses.

Lifenights every SUnday night covering all sorts of topics such as sexual issues, theology of the body, chastity, Eucharist, Sacraments.

Adoration nights once a month that have hundreds attending. Teens with their own holy hours. High schoolers beginnig prayer groups on their own at schools. High schoolers requesting a rosary group before their regularly weekly scheduled prayer nights.

The facebook group often has comments about the homily the days after Sunday mass.
A good friend of mine, a Steubenville grad, runs a parish based youth group with LITERALLY over 500 young people attending every single week. I’ve been to a couple of their youth Masses before they break off into their discipleship “households,” each led by a young adult of the same gender, and the Masses are standing room only, and this is a big church.
 
With all due respect, this could be applied to any segment of the population. Attending a Mass where the Communion hymn is Panis Angelicus or even the proper antiphon in no way entails that one will be more well-catechized than attending Mass where Matt Maher’s song Rememberance is the communion hymn. I would very much like those of you, who by your own admission do not listen to his music, to listen to the following song and explain to me why it is unfit for a Communion hymn.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=fVk7jhvhrLY

This is general, not an absolute, statement, but the reality is that among high schoolers, there are those who have been evangelized by Steubenville conferences, NCYC, Life Teen, World Youth Day and the like, and there are those who are gone.

We celebrate the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite in our parish every Sunday and it doesn’t take more than my two hands to count the number of people under twenty there. Yet, as I said, with little effort, in fact we had to turn people away, our diocese was able to just register over 400 youth for the Steubenville Mid-America conference.
Do me a favor Father and do a poll on those same children when they get to be 25 to 30 years of age and see where they are in life. Why is it that Mass attendance is around 25% and the belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist is about the same? What is the rate of people that contracept in their marriage? Why are we on the verge of losing all of Europe? Something isn’t working and I believe it boils down to people not being properly catechized and in lots of places the state the Mass has been and currently still is in.
 
Great!

Now give them a quiz on basic Catholicism. And…maybe get a group together on Monday to see what they thought about the gospel and homily.
It seems that you are only interested in tearing down the youth of our Church. Why is that?

Like agapewolf, our parish also hosts a large number of students at Bible study, youth group and adoration. Our “Junior/Senior Mass and Breakfast with Father XXXX” is also a big hit. That is scheduled every week since having once a month just wasn’t enough.

Our parish doesn’t have a Mass with “rock” music. But the music is a lot more contemporary than the music that is played Sunday morning. The students flock to it, Sunday evening.

Of course that doesn’t talk about the College Mass and their music, on Sunday night. We are overflowing at that Mass as well. Or about their Bible study or other activities.
 
You really want to keep going? because I can.

6 AM bible studies before school–optional and highly attended. Also attending early morning daily masses.

Lifenights every SUnday night covering all sorts of topics such as sexual issues, theology of the body, chastity, Eucharist, Sacraments.

Adoration nights once a month that have hundreds attending. Teens with their own holy hours. High schoolers beginnig prayer groups on their own at schools. High schoolers requesting a rosary group before their regularly weekly scheduled prayer nights.

The facebook group often has comments about the homily the days after Sunday mass.
I said ‘great!’…🤷 It is great. And thank you for offering more information.

Our touchy feely masses are not so well attended and our youth groups not as robust. We have perpetual adoration 👍 attended by mostly older folks. Requests for pre-mass rosaries have been denied. They dance around the theology of the body without firm condemnation of birth control. NFP is on the fringes of awareness. RCIA is extremely lax. (my wife went trough it a couple of years ago…) The one TLM in the area (50 miles away) is well attended and vibrant.

So…good on ya. Carry on.
 
They are not immutable doctrine, of that it is certain, but it is hardly a free for all either, where our own personal preferences and self contrived traditions reign supreme. The documents of Vatican II address this fairly clearly as do several others sources. There is a hierarchy within the Church, and there are preferences which have been established in regards to the type of music to be used in the Sacred Liturgy, as well as the instrumentation which goes with it.

A learned perspective on the situation: vimeo.com/25776981
👍👍
 
Do me a favor Father and do a poll on those same children when they get to be 25 to 30 years of age and see where they are in life. Why is it that Mass attendance is around 25% and the belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist is about the same? What is the rate of people that contracept in their marriage? Why are we on the verge of losing all of Europe? Something isn’t working and I believe it boils down to people not being properly catechized and in lots of places the state the Mass has been and currently still is in.
I will grant you that this is a problem, but I would dispute that it is directly tied to either these conferences, or the music affiliated with them. Our Lord told us this would happen. Think of the parable of the sower. I think what you a describing is the very large segment of our society that represents the seed that falls on rocky soil.

“Other seeds fell on rocky ground, she where they had not much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched; and since they had no root, they withered away.” Matthew 13: 5 (RSV)

Certainly, this happens. I would not deny that. But, I would suggest that it is more a product of what they receive, or more accurately, don’t receive, when they return back to their parishes. The point of these conferences, I would suggest, is to get a fire going in the hearts of young people, to sow the seed so to speak. What we do AFTERWARDS determines whether or not that seed will grow.

I think the parishes that are able to keep alive the fire that Steubenville starts are the parishes that have young people who are well-catechized and faithful Catholics. I don’t think it’s fair to expect a three day conference to fully catechize people. That’s not the point or the intention of the conference. The intention is to evangelize, which in the tradition, ALWAYS precedes catechesis. You can’t catechize someone who is not already evangelized. It simply won’t work.

Just my two cents…
 
It seems that you are only interested in tearing down the youth of our Church. Why is that?
Not true! I like the kids…I used to be one. :rolleyes:

I am interested in tearing down the protestant spackling of the people centered mass and the watered down catholicism that is causing me (and plenty of others) heartache. I’m most interested in restoring the awareness of catholicism to the mystical and beautiful, in order to attract rather than to promote. That model served us well for a looong time for a very good reason.
 
Check back in 5 years and see if the same people are there.
40.png
hudson:
The teens and younger love this stuff. When they get out in the real world on their own they lose the faith.
I grew up on “this stuff” and I’m still devout.
 
I like Mass to be quiet and reverent. Everything in it’s proper place and hymns I knew from childhood. I guess I’m just old fashioned. 🤷
 
I grew up on “this stuff” and I’m still devout.
I’m a horrible sinner who, on a good day, might just squeak into purgatory by the grace of God. I’m nowhere near devout. I’m devoted to perseverence.
 
I like Mass to be quiet…
This is indeed important. The General Instruction for the Roman Missal speaks about silence in the Liturgy, as do many other sources including Pope Benedict and Blessed John Paul II. vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_20031204_spiritus-et-sponsa_en.html vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/communications/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20120124_46th-world-communications-day_en.html vultus.stblogs.org/2012/03/a-benedictine-bishop-on-silenc.html

“Silence is God’s first language. Everything else is a poor translation.”
St John of the Cross.

“118. But, in order to hear the voice of God, one has to have silence in one’s soul and to keep silence.”

“888. Silence is so powerful a language that it reaches the throne of the living God. Silence is His language, though secret, yet living and powerful.”
St Faustina:

From the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy:
“ at proper times all should observe reverent silence.”
Based on the texts of the General Instructions on the Roman Missal and the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy we can see that there are some distinct times in the Mass where we are to experience silence:
The period of recollection provided in the penitential rite
The time provided for personal prayer after the invitation “let us Pray”
A pause at the conclusion of the Sunday readings or homily
after communion which is a most intimate time with Jesus.


There are also other times where sacred silence is the be held:
This silence should be sought while listening to the readings, the homily, or the proclamation of the Eucharistic and other priestly prayers.
These silences are not to be viewed in such a way that they take away from the communal aspect of the Mass:


*This helps quiet our imagination, our worries and our toils so as to join our hearts to the prayers and be fully attentive to whatever the Holy Spirit should inspire in us. Thus silence at Mass is an active, not a passive disposition. *

This form of interior silence does not impede, and indeed favors, full and active participation in those parts of the celebration where the community is united in acclamation and song, for each person is more fully aware of what he or she is doing.

Pope Benedict has also written extensively on the liturgy through his time as a Cardinal and since becoming Pope:

We are realizing more and more clearly that silence is part of the liturgy. We respond, by singing and praying, to the God who addresses us, but the greater mystery, surpassing all words, summons us to silence. It must, of course, be a silence with content, not just the absence of speech and action. We should expect the liturgy to give us a positive stillness that will restore us. Such stillness will not be just a pause, in which a thousand thoughts and desires assault us, but a time of recollection, giving us an inward peace, allowing us to draw breath and rediscover the one thing necessary, which we have forgotten. That is why silence cannot be simply “made”, organized as if it were one activity among many. It is no accident that on all sides people are seeking techniques of meditation, a spirituality for emptying the mind. One of man’s deepest needs is making its presence felt, a need that is manifestly not being met in our present form of the liturgy. For silence to be fruitful, as we have already said, it must not be just a pause in the action of the liturgy. No, it must be an integral part of the liturgical event.

Blessed John Paul II did as well:
:
Active participation certainly means that, in gesture, word, song and service, all the members of the community take part in an act of worship, which is anything but inert or passive. Yet active participation does not preclude the active passivity of silence, stillness and listening: indeed, it demands it. Worshipers are not passive, for instance, when listening to the readings or the homily, or following the prayers of the celebrant, and the chants and music of the liturgy. These are experiences of silence and stillness, but they are in their own way profoundly active

Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments:

*We also show our adoration and reverence towards the Holy Eucharist by silence in church, by becoming dress and postures at sacred celebrations, by joining other people in singing, giving responses, and gestures such as sitting, kneeling or standing, and by general care over whatever has to do with Eucharistic worship such as reading, discipline in church and tidiness in altar and sacristy equipment.

May I say a further word on the importance of silence in our churches and chapels. Movements of silence help us to prepare for the celebration of Mass. During Mass, a few minutes of silence help us to meditate on the lessons, the Gospel and the homily just heard. Silence after receiving Jesus Holy Communion is a time for personal prayer to Our Lord. At the end of Mass and at all other times in church, silence is a mark of reverence for God’s house and especially for Jesus present in the tabernacle.

Some church rectors have the habit of playing recorded soft music as a background in churches almost the whole day outside Mass. This is doubtless well-intentioned.

But it is a mistake. People enter churches to pray, not to be entertained. They are not tourists in a museum or music hall. They need silence in order to concentrate on the tabernacle, or even to reflect on the statues, sacred images which are ongoing catechesis, and the figures of the Way of the Cross.*
 
I’m a horrible sinner who, on a good day, might just squeak into purgatory by the grace of God. I’m nowhere near devout. I’m devoted to perseverence.
I don’t think it’s egotistical to call oneself “devout.” I just meant I’m a commited Catholic.

Yes, Mass attendance is down, and yes, a great many Catholics have left the faith or are poorly catechized, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that it’s because of the type of music at Mass. I’d venture that young JPII Catholics are more devout in general than many who grew up in the 60s and 70s and saw firsthand the widespread dissent after Humanae Vitae.
 
I don’t think it’s egotistical to call oneself “devout.” I just meant I’m a commited Catholic.
Agreed. Devout has taken on the connotation of being good at something, which implies a lack of humility in thinking you fit that description. However, the actual definition of the word simply means that you take your Faith seriously and that you are sincere in your devotion to it. One can be quite devout, and still be quite the sinner at the same time. I imagine most saints would describe themselves in similar terms. In fact, most of the great spiritual masters seem to suggest that as one progresses in their faith, their recognition of their own sinfulness actually increases, not decreases.
 
I don’t think it’s egotistical to call oneself “devout.” I just meant I’m a commited Catholic.

Yes, Mass attendance is down, and yes, a great many Catholics have left the faith or are poorly catechized, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that it’s because of the type of music at Mass. I’d venture that young JPII Catholics are more devout in general than many who grew up in the 60s and 70s and saw firsthand the widespread dissent after Humanae Vitae.
I never called you egotistical.

The crisis of watered down catholicism is the cause. (VII, something else…who knows?)
The confusion, departures, people centered mass, ambiguous theology, inappropriate attire, music, etc… are the symptoms. Somehow, the seeds of dissent were already sown before Humane Vitae.
 
I never called you egotistical.

The crisis of watered down catholicism is the cause. (VII, something else…who knows?)
The confusion, departures, people centered mass, ambiguous theology, inappropriate attire, music, etc… are the symptoms. Somehow, the seeds of dissent were already sown before Humane Vitae.
I think relativism, sexual revolution, and affluency is the “cause”. Everyone has every need satisfied so they don’t think they have a need for God.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top