We are all catholic. We are all defective

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aidanbradypop said:
Yes are all defective and it was stated that there are some denominations the suffer defects in I suppose in theological areas. So if those denominations suffer defects in their teachings and beliefs then the followers would also suffer defects in their beliefs and understandings.
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All people are defective, but not all doctrines. And yes, if one happens to be in a faith community with defective doctrines, teachings and beliefs then the followers of that faith tradition will suffer from those defects.

To put it simply, all Catholics are defective but the dogmas and doctrines of the Church are not. We have the truth even if we fail, to one degree or another, in living out that truth.

From a Catholic perspective, all non-Catholic Christian faith traditions have defective doctrines to varying degrees. This is quite different from individuals failing to live out the truth they possess.
 
howirenic said:
Having read the OP’s article, and the statement in question, I can safely conclude that Catholic Church is not calling individuals “defective” (although, IMHO, we all have our problems); it is calling the doctrines of their churches and communities defective.

For example, I am Orthodox. The Catholic Church would consider my church defective in that it does not submit to the authority of the Pope. However, I do not think the Catholic Church would call me defective (compared to its own members), as, according to them, the Holy Spirit can work in all things, including my “defective” church. Naturally, I believe that my church holds the fullness of the faith, and that the Catholic Church is defective, but I would not call Roman Catholics defective people.

I think the article is more of a personal rant than an honest critique of the statements issued forth. It reflects the Protestant views of the author through and through.
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👍
 
aidanbradypop said:
It is an opinion piece. What is believes that by saying a denomination or Church may suffer defects…he feels that by stating that…one could gather that if you follow a church that is “defective” then one that follows would be defective in their beliefs.
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Right, I guess I just don’t follow that train of thought like he (and you) did. I read the statement as attributing defects to my Church’s doctrines, not its members. And really, that’s nothing new. The Catholic Church has always proclaimed itself to be the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Naturally, churches outside of it would have at least some defects that prevent them from embracing the fullness of the faith.
 
TRH1292 said:
No.
“We are all catholic.” <— That is his opinion, he is entitled to it.
"“I am a defective Christian. This is according to a report released last week by the Catholic Church’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.” ,<---- That is a lie and a misrepresentation.

I’m not surprised I disagreed with him. I am surprised that he spoke a falsehood about what the document said and claimed. It would be the same if he was quoting a Methodist document in the same way.

And you are once again making it about moral defects and faults in people instead of about theology in a church body. I’m not sure why you feel the need to do that.
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I disagree with you saying we are not all “catholic” with a little “c”

His opinion from the choice of words that the Vatican used “may suffer defects” brought him to the that conclusion.

I am not making it about anything. I asked the question that you have yet to answer due to my “twisted logic”…If a denomination or Church is considered to suffer defects…does that make the follower of that faith defective…
 
aidanbradypop said:
I disagree with you saying we are not all “catholic” with a little “c”

His opinion from the choice of words that the Vatican used “may suffer defects” brought him to the that conclusion.

I am not making it about anything. I asked the question that you have yet to answer due to my “twisted logic”…If a denomination or Church is considered to suffer defects…does that make the follower of that faith defective…
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I answered you completely in post number 10 and number 13. I don’t know what more I can say other than that.
 
SteveVH said:
All people are defective, but not all doctrines. And yes, if one happens to be in a faith community with defective doctrines, teachings and beliefs then the followers of that faith tradition will suffer from those defects.
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Which makes them defective in the sense of theology…right?
.
From a Catholic perspective, all non-Catholic Christian faith traditions have defective doctrines to varying degrees. This is quite different from individuals failing to live out the truth they possess.
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I would state that all of Christianity has defective doctrines and beliefs but I get what you are saying.
howirenic said:
Right, I guess I just don’t follow that train of thought like he (and you) did. I read the statement as attributing defects to my Church’s doctrines, not its members. And really, that’s nothing new. The Catholic Church has always proclaimed itself to be the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Naturally, churches outside of it would have at least some defects that prevent them from embracing the fullness of the faith.
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I believe what he meant is that if a Church or church teaches defective doctrines then those that subscribe to it will be defective in their beliefs
 
Peter_J said:
Not having read every single word that has been posted on this thread, I get the impression that the article has provoked “outrage” here. But that aside, perhaps you could tell us a little about why you like the article?
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A few reasons but the most important part is that we are all “catholic” and we are all “defective”
 
aidanbradypop said:
Which makes them defective in the sense of theology…right?
.

I would state that all of Christianity has defective doctrines and beliefs but I get what you are saying.

I believe what he meant is that if a Church or church teaches defective doctrines then those that subscribe to it will be defective in their beliefs
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Well, he should have said that. He should have said that people with defective doctrines would be defective in there beliefs rather than saying they are defective people or defective Christians. Neither of which was even spoken of in the Vatican document despite what he said.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Which makes them defective in the sense of theology…right?
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Yes.
aidanbradypop said:
I would state that all of Christianity has defective doctrines and beliefs but I get what you are saying.
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If all of Christianity has defective doctrines then Christ failed in his promise to send the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth.
aidanbradypop said:
I believe what he meant is that if a Church or church teaches defective doctrines then those that subscribe to it will be defective in their beliefs
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I would concur with your conclusion.
 
TRH1292 said:
Well, he should have said that. He should have said that people with defective doctrines would be defective in there beliefs rather than saying they are defective people or defective Christians. Neither of which was even spoken of in the Vatican despite what he said.
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I agree. I know Fr. Frank and I will ask him to clarify exactly what he meant. But from knowing him, I trust that he meant “defective doctrines”
 
aidanbradypop said:
I would state that all of Christianity has defective doctrines and beliefs but I get what you are saying.
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You believe that your own beliefs are defective. You also believe that there isn’t a church in existence that has it 100% right. Is that correct?
aidanbradypop said:
I believe what he meant is that if a Church or church teaches defective doctrines then those that subscribe to it will be defective in their beliefs
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Right, that much is clear. I and most of the other posters on this thread would disagree with his interpretation of the statement from the Catholic Church.
 
aidanbradypop said:
We are all catholic. We are all defective.

Fr. Frank does a wonderful job at explaining this! I hope you read this!
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I read the article and think the following is the most important point the author is making:

“It is not news that the Pope thinks the Catholic Church was the best thing before and after sliced bread. If he didn’t think so, he probably wouldn’t have been elected to the top job in the world’s largest Christian denomination. What should be news is that he also signed a document affirming once again that there is salvation outside the Catholic Church.”

The first two sentences are fluff but if the CC now truly believes that in the salvation of non-Catholic Christians that is good news for the evolution of Catholic thinking and nothing new for non-Catholic Christians’ thinking. Whether we are defective or not is up for debate.
 
SteveVH said:
If all of Christianity has defective doctrines then Christ failed in his promise to send the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth.
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Not really. All truth is Christ and eternal life with God through His Son!
 
My judgement was defective in having read the linked article and the thread to date.

For some reason I just hear in my head the voice of Patrick Starfish; “Can we say that people from Texas are defective?”
 
howirenic said:
You believe that your own beliefs are defective. You also believe that there isn’t a church in existence that has it 100% right. Is that correct?
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As humans, we often tend to create a lot of grey area. TEC has done this as well as every faith and tradition in the world. No I do not believe any Church is 100% correct in teaching. I believe the Orthodox Church is correct along with Catholicism, Anglicanism…etc. Each Church has the truth with defective human beliefs. Make sense?
 
JHow said:
My judgement was defective in having read the linked article and the thread to date.

For some reason I just hear in my head the voice of Patrick Starfish; “Can we say that people from Texas are defective?”
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Depends on what part of Texas you ask lol
 
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