Jesus tells us to obey all the commandments. Now, I may get to where I can’t avoid venial sins, but I will continue to strive to where I won’t commit mortal sins. It is do-able, or else Jesus wouldn’t command it of us.No one can go without sinning. What about Adam? He was as close to being perfect as possible, and He couldn’t avoid sin. So are you saying that you are any better then Adam?
For some reason you seem to think that I am “promoting” sinning. What gives you that idea? It just really is not Biblical to think that you at some point in your life here on earth, you will get to a point through hard effort where you will be able to not sin. It’s part of our fallen nature. Sure, we are to try and avoid sin, and might be able to do so for a very short period of time, but we will sin again, and again, and again, and again. Anyone who thinks they don’t sin are guilty of sin, because “the truth is not in them.”
God Bless,
Robert
Yes, Robert, and as the shepherd, he separates those that do HIs will from those who do not. Those that do His will unto life, and those that do not into eternal punishment.
This is an erroneous conclusion, Robert. The son belonged to the household. He had an inheritance. People who are not members of the family and worthy of inheritance cannot stand up one day and demand their “portion”. He returned because he 'came to himself" and realized that he had left the better part.
According to the Parable, the Prodigal son is an heir to the Kingdom. If He remained in the family (which is the analogy given in the parable) and only if he remained, he would be a saint in heaven at this point, IMO.So where do you think that the prodigal son is now?
God Bless,
Robert
There’s not a Catholic on this site that says “Works Save us”, so please don’t use that as an argument. Catholics teach that salvation is a process, and although our works won’t get us saved, they will help us to remain in the kingdom, and the lack of good works can cause us to lose our salvation.Works do not save you. Works are a by-product of your faith. Following Jesus means that you will do good works, but this is not what saves you. Faith alone saves you ultimately. Jesus said, you must receive Heaven as a child receives a gift. That means no questions, no concerns of where it came from, you just take it. It’s faith in Jesus Christ
OK, ronnok, please go over the previous 19 pages, because this has been covered ad nauseum on this thread alone.It is not possible. Scripture says that all have fallen short of the grace of God. (That includes Mary).
Jim,As for the verse from Timothy you are being too literal. “…kept the faith…” means that he lived the Christian life until the end. If you read on, Paul is joyous because he will be judged by Christ as “righteous.” This implies that this wouldn’t be the case if he stopped living as a Christian. I don’t know where you derive anything about where he gets the faith. It says nothing about that here. As for the verse in Phillipians I never said that God doen’t work through us. I do believe we are able to resist God working through us. This is implyed in us having free will. You still have said nothing about this verse being out of context in terms of relating to the loseability of salvation. As for the last verse, I have heard other Protestants bring up this rewards concept. I don’t see how this verse is referring to that. I think you are talking about 2 Cor 5:10. When I read 2 Cor. 5:10 it sounds like Paul is speaking of our judgement. Is not this judgement whether or not we are going to Heaven or Hell. It seems a little convenient that Protestants change this verse into meaning the level of rewards the saved get when they get to heaven. Anyway, I see nothing in 1 Cor. 9:27, or any verse around it that says Paul is talking about rewards and not salvation. I do have to go to sleep now, but I would be happy to continue this tomorrow.
Good night and God Bless,
Jim
That boy (the Prodigal Son) was in nothing that can be construed as heaven with no extra rewards. He left the promised land, Robert and lived among the unclean. That is not a heavenly context in the parable.
He was an heir, then he squandered his inheritance and cut himself off from the family (he cut himself off, no one took it from him, just as Scripture teaches us). Then he repented and re-joined the family.
Jesus tells us if our hand causes us to sin, cut it off. Why? Because it’s better to go without a hand then to burn in the fires of Gehenna (paraphrasing). This is not loss of rewards, this is loss of salvation
My heart is in complete peace, because I know that there is nothing that I can do to lose my salvation. Everyone here seems to think that I am promoting sin. That could not be farther from the truth. Unfortunately many Christians feel that if they don’t do enough works…in other words meet some vague church imposed “Godly” standard, that they will have no hope of ever being in heaven with God. And somehow they need to be able to stop sinning, and actually think that they have the power to obey [all] the commandments. And bend scripture to back this nonsense up.let’s try it in simple terms,
it’s like he died to open up the gates. there was a giant, rusty lock chained onto it, and his sacrifice to God let him break the chains. they were locked closed ever since Adam and Eve messed up and they were kicked out of the garden. BUT WOAH THERE, just because the garden is opened for business doesn’t mean you all can rush in just because you say, “Lord, Lord, i have a “saved” pass!” Jesus is also the security guard at the gates. he has your life on video, but he also knows your thoughts and hearts. he is also the fountain of infinite mercy. he will determine if you actually get to walk through the turnstyle gates and come inside.
it’s dangerous to think otherwise. it is a false sense of security the evil one is tricking you into believing. he is making you think that you can do whatever you want and it’s ok, you’re still going through the gates. NO! Jesus has warned us, that if you are not good, don’t repent, and don’t make up for those sins, he is not letting you go through the gates. “Lord, Lord! i have a “saved” non-refundable ticket” is NOT going to cut it.
one person’s explanation of salvation covers some of the issues, but not the others. some make sense in one part, but not in the others. there is only one explanation that clearly covers them all, and i’ll give you a hint, it is 2000 years old and is practiced by the majority of the Christians in the world. it has been held in tact and the way Jesus established it ever since the original Apostles and earliest Christians. it is the only one that makes sense, and leaves your heart in complete peace, without a single doubt, just the way he intended it.
So venial sins are acceptable in our lives, and mortal sins are not?Jesus tells us to obey all the commandments. Now, I may get to where I can’t avoid venial sins, but I will continue to strive to where I won’t commit mortal sins. It is do-able, or else Jesus wouldn’t command it of us.
The whole point of this parable is to illustrate the prodigal son’s election.According to the Parable, the Prodigal son is an heir to the Kingdom. If He remained in the family (which is the analogy given in the parable) and only if he remained, he would be a saint in heaven at this point, IMO.
I think it’s “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.”When Paul states, “All have sinned and seen the glory of God”, he was not talking about all have sinned( we agree that Jesus was not a sinner). What he was talking about was the conflict about whether the gentiles needed to follow jewish law(circumcision, dietary law), read the whole passage and the chapter before it to get the context of the quote
Do you think as Christians, we will be judged for our sins? Do you think that there will be a seperate judgement where Christians will be rewarded for what they have done here on earth in the name of Jesus? Do you believe that there is a judgement where Christians will receive crowns for what they have done?Robert, I’d still like you to address a couple of points on judgments being rewards.
No, but if I have mortal sins on my soul, I must seek Penance if I wish to get to heaven. I can have veniel sins on my soul and fry those babies off in Purgatory!So venial sins are acceptable in our lives, and mortal sins are not?
I thought Jesus died for all of our sins? “for the wages of sin is death.”
God Bless,
Robert
Can you elaborate? I’m sorry, but I just don’t get it.The whole point of this parable is to illustrate the prodigal son’s election.
Eph 1:14. Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession to the praise of His glory."
God Bless,
Robert
I thought I’ve made it quite clear that we will be judged by our sins. We’ve been rambling on regarding that one topic for 10 pages now.Do you think as Christians, we will be judged for our sins? Do you think that there will be a seperate judgement where Christians will be rewarded for what they have done here on earth in the name of Jesus? Do you believe that there is a judgement where Christians will receive crowns for what they have done?
I’ll be better able to address your questions, if you’ll first answer mine?
God Bless,
Robert
There are two major points that really need to be addressed here.My heart is in complete peace, because I know that there is nothing that I can do to lose my salvation. Everyone here seems to think that I am promoting sin.
And you still have that argument, despite the fact that the evidence you provide is quite sketchy. There is only one last judgement.Jim,
Paul is talking about being disqualified from his rewards, due to his actions. He is not talking about being disqualified from his salvation. If you don’t think that we will be rewarded for our works, read Rev. 22:12. This is not the same judgement as the Great White Throne Judgement described in Rev 20:11. If you think that these two judgements are the same, you are mistaken. One is for the saved, and the other is for the lost. If you are a child of God, you will not be judged for your sins, only what you have done for God in the name of Jesus. Jesus died for our sins, past, present and future. Why would you be judged for something that has already been paid for??
God Bless,
Robert
Adam and Eve possessed original righteousness, perfectly holy. Yet they chose against God. If there is no free will, then God would be directly responsible for our sins. Are you saying that God created a certain group of people for eternal damnation. This goes against the God presented to us in the Bible.If you have free will, as you seem to think that you do let me ask you to try an experiment for me?
Using your “free” will to choose, choose that you are not going to sin anymore. “Will” you do that for me?
God Bless,
Robert
So if a Christian dies in the middle of committing a sin, such as adultery, what will happen to him? The fact that he died while commiting a sin means he hasn’t persevered to the end.Jim,
Paul is talking about being disqualified from his rewards, due to his actions. He is not talking about being disqualified from his salvation. If you don’t think that we will be rewarded for our works, read Rev. 22:12. This is not the same judgement as the Great White Throne Judgement described in Rev 20:11. If you think that these two judgements are the same, you are mistaken. One is for the saved, and the other is for the lost. If you are a child of God, you will not be judged for your sins, only what you have done for God in the name of Jesus. Jesus died for our sins, past, present and future. Why would you be judged for something that has already been paid for??
God Bless,
Robert