We ARE saved by Works.

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KatholikosMercy

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If you have no works your faith is dead and you may as well not have any faith because you aren’t saved. To think you will get over with claiming you have faith and then do nothing as a confirming result you are decieving yourself.

What types of works save us? All kinds actually because many things we do can prove we truly believe.

1815 The gift of faith remains in one who has not sinned against it. But “faith apart from works is dead”: when it is deprived of hope and love, faith does not fully unite the believer to Christ and does not make him a living member of his Body.

2447 The works of mercy are charitable actions by which we come to the aid of our neighbor in his spiritual and bodily necessities. Instructing, advising, consoling, comforting are spiritual works of mercy, as are forgiving and bearing wrongs patiently. The corporal works of mercy consist especially in feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned, and burying the dead. Among all these, giving alms to the poor is one of the chief witnesses to fraternal charity: it is also a work of justice pleasing to God:

He who has two coats, let him share with him who has none and he who has food must do likewise. But give for alms those things which are within; and behold, everything is clean for you. If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit?

1430 Jesus’ call to conversion and penance, like that of the prophets before him, does not aim first at outward works, “sackcloth and ashes,” fasting and mortification, but at the conversion of the heart, interior conversion. Without this, such penances remain sterile and false; however, interior conversion urges expression in visible signs, gestures and works of penance.
scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm
 
No, we are NOT saved by works. Stop feeding the ignorance of people. We are saved by Jesus Christ and that salvation is undeserved. We work BECAUSE of our faith.
 
Jesus died for us, but we need both faith and works as He demanded.

Can faith alone be enough? Can works alone be enough?
 
scripturecatholic.com/justification.html

I also find it interesting that the only place the Bible uses the words “faith alone” is James 2:24. (that we are not saved by faith alone.)

We must love God. And if we love Him, we will keep His commandments. (This includes obedience in all areas.)

We are saved by grace alone.
 
First, let me say that this letter is out of love for our Lord Jesus Christ and all praise be to him in everything we do.
It is clear in the Bible that we are saved though Jesus Christ by our faith in him. On one hand, people quote Romans to say that only faith and not works, and the other side quote James as to the response. I will not quote these books as if you have not read them start there.
Let me explain it like this; imagine a horse and a cart needing to go somewhere. The cart will represent our faith the horse works and where we need to go is salvation. We do not need the horse (works) to have the cart (faith), but for the cart (faith) to move we need the horse (works) to make it to our destination (salvation).
We do not need works to have faith we need works to continue our faith.
What about the unchristian man that is dying and the Holy Spirit worked in him at the last minute and gave him faith and he truly believed in Christ before he dies does he have salvation? I think the answer is a giant YES. The Bible does not give a list of what works are require to have true faith, and since we will never know, the best we can do is live the best life for God. If we are to believe that the man dying is not saved, then tell me how much time doing works is required for salvation. Is there a time limit in the Bible that says well you have reached 40 years of age and you will not have enough time to work for your salvation so don’t try. Works are not required to obtain salvation, but are require if we want to continue to have true Christian faith. It is obvious that we as Christian will what to live as close to God as we can, but as sinners, we will never obtain that goal. At the same time, we cannot just say well I have faith and I am a sinner so why try to live a God fearing life. This is the point that the Book of James verse 2:14-26 is trying to convey. If you have faith without works, you do not have true faith!
In Christ
 
The OP is wrong, and this is not just me speaking but the authority of Church teaching as well. As somebody else mentioned earlier, if we are saved by one thing “alone” it is grace.
 
Regarding Works and Salvation:

Salvation - you can’t earn it, but you can sure blow it!!!
 
I agree with the above statement.

What’s more, my discipleship leader and I have just finished memorizing Romans 1-4:5, and it’s funny, because the whole point of Romans 3 ends up boiling down to the fact that we can NEVER be good enough–after all, “Everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with *undeserved *kindness, declares that we are righteous …”

And in chapter 4,

"If [Abraham’s] good deeds had made him acceptable to God, then he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way. For the Scriptures tells us, ‘Abraham believed God, and counted him as righteous because of his faith.’

“When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are made righteous, not by their work, but by their faith in God who forgives sinners.”

James’s point in his brilliant epistle seems to me to be more about people working out their salvation, so that fruit could be seen. And I agree wholeheartedly that faith without works is dead and useless; however, Paul here has just said that work itself justifies no one, but rather, faith does, and that faith must be producing fruit, or else it isn’t able to save anyone.
 
The_Truthinator said:
I agree with the above statement.

What’s more, my discipleship leader and I have just finished memorizing Romans 1-4:5, and it’s funny, because the whole point of Romans 3 ends up boiling down to the fact that we can NEVER be good enough–after all, “Everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with *undeserved *kindness, declares that we are righteous …”

And in chapter 4,

"If [Abraham’s] good deeds had made him acceptable to God, then he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way. For the Scriptures tells us, ‘Abraham believed God, and counted him as righteous because of his faith.’

“When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are made righteous, not by their work, but by their faith in God who forgives sinners.”

James’s point in his brilliant epistle seems to me to be more about people working out their salvation, so that fruit could be seen. And I agree wholeheartedly that faith without works is dead and useless; however, Paul here has just said that work itself justifies no one, but rather, faith does, and that faith must be producing fruit, or else it isn’t able to save anyone.
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Do you believe that the Bible makes a distinction between works of the law and good works (faith working in love)?

What’s your view concerning imputed versus infused righteousness?

Once Saved, Always Saved?

Thanks.
 
We are saved by grace not works. Grace empowers us to have faith, and our faith lead us to do good works… it is grace that saves us. Not works, not faith alone. Grace Only period. God’s grace.
 
If we are saved by works we can earn our way to heaven.

If we can earn our way to Heaven Jesus dyng on the cross was the biggest tradgedy of all mankind. Why?? because the Old Testament sacrifice would sufice.
 
okieflyer said:
If we are saved by works we can earn our way to heaven.

If we can earn our way to Heaven Jesus dyng on the cross was the biggest tradgedy of all mankind. Why?? because the Old Testament sacrifice would sufice.
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Jesus Christ death on the cross was God, the Father’s will. I would not call it tragedy because had not Jesus died, the gates of heaven will still be closed.

His death and resurrection redeemed us all
 
exoflare said:
The OP is wrong, and this is not just me speaking but the authority of Church teaching as well. As somebody else mentioned earlier, if we are saved by one thing “alone” it is grace.
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We are saved by faith not by works, but we say it is by grace through faith. Grace is the real cause, faith is just the means. It is like the pipe through which the water flows. It is not the water.
Everyone is given the grace but not all will have the faith.
 
cslink said:
We are saved by faith not by works, but we say it is by grace through faith. Grace is the real cause, faith is just the means. It is like the pipe through which the water flows. It is not the water.
Everyone is given the grace but not all will have the faith.
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Catechism of the Catholic Church states,

2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning “favor,” “gratuitous gift,” “benefit.” Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.

2024 Sanctifying grace makes us “pleasing to God.” Charisms, special graces of the Holy Spirit, are oriented to sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. God also acts through many actual graces, to be distinguished from habitual grace which is permanent in us.

1997 Grace is a participation in the life of God. It introduces us into the intimacy of Trinitarian life: by Baptism the Christian participates in the grace of Christ, the Head of his Body. As an “adopted son” he can henceforth call God “Father,” in union with the only Son. He receives the life of the Spirit who breathes charity into him and who forms the Church.
 
I don’t know why we perpetually squabble about this. There is no dichotomy here. Quite simply, saving faith and works are “ontologically” the same thing.

A crude physical analogy is time and space. We live in them as though they are totally different but they are two manifestations of essentially the same thing. In the physical world we operate in the “space/time continuum”. In the spiritual realm we operate in the “faith/works continuum”.

You cannot separate faith and works. If you don’t manifest works, you don’t have faith. If you trust in faith without works you are deluding yourself. Without works, the “faith” you have is merely a psychological construct devoid of any real substance.
 
Yerusalyim said:
No, we are NOT saved by works. Stop feeding the ignorance of people. We are saved by Jesus Christ and that salvation is undeserved. We work BECAUSE of our faith.
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I agree with your last sentance. But are there any protestants who do? I think not. Lest could they pursue “solas” in defiant protest to sound doctrine? Again, I think not.

JUSTIFICATION begins with faith. It isn’t accomplished by it like false prophets calim.

The “solas” and all other false doctrines of protest feed not only ignorance but prejudice and division.

I speak the truth of Jesus with the fire of the Holy Spirit and if you listen it will set you free.

You cannot do works without faith but if you do not do works then you have NO faith or it is dead and thus its useless. So its better if you do works for the sake of Christ and faith than to pretend to have faith that is dead anyway.

This is why protesters continually fall short of doing anything positive or moral in their lives. They decieve themselves into believing its not neccessary and all they need to do is have fun and if they remain sinful all is right with God.

THAT is what is feeding ignorance. Ignorance so profound and immovably proud one cannot recognize the true church, a miracle or Jesus himself for that matter.

I made this post because others feed ignorance. If it got your attention then that was my intention. Now pray, fast and listen to the voice.

“FAITH ALONE” is pure deception from the pits of hell intended to stop people of good will from loving their neighbors thus leading them to spiritual death.

By the way Faith isn’t a synonymous with protest, but betrayal is!
 
a_priori said:
I don’t know why we perpetually squabble about this. There is no dichotomy here. Quite simply, saving faith and works are “ontologically” the same thing.

A crude physical analogy is time and space. We live in them as though they are totally different but they are two manifestations of essentially the same thing. In the physical world we operate in the “space/time continuum”. In the spiritual realm we operate in the “faith/works continuum”.

You cannot separate faith and works. If you don’t manifest works, you don’t have faith. If you trust in faith without works you are deluding yourself. Without works, the “faith” you have is merely a psychological construct devoid of any real substance.
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I will tell you why this is continually squabbled over. Its because its sound doctrine that Justification is only begun with faith.

Its an evil deception of satan that its accomplished by faith.

Its a protesters/accusers aim to always discredit sound doctrine by whatever means possible.

It needs to be brought up because it continually influences innocent and unsuspecting believers into ceasing good works ansd being led astray.

As long as children of God are led astray by false teachings then the truth MUST be proclaimed.
 
water said:
Jesus died for us, but we need both faith and works as He demanded.

Can faith alone be enough? Can works alone be enough?
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Exactly. Neither alone can.

Solas are evil deception from the pits of hell.
 
exoflare said:
The OP is wrong, and this is not just me speaking but the authority of Church teaching as well. As somebody else mentioned earlier, if we are saved by one thing “alone” it is grace.
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Agreed but that doesnt make the OP wrong. Only attention getting.

Faith begins Justification along the road to sanctification.

The OP is intented to thwart the false and dangerous “Faith Alone” doctrines. Not to create a “works alone” doctrine.
 
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