We ARE saved by Works.

[mikeledes]

I just don’t understand why this teaching of not being able to lose your salvation bothers so many Christians

.

Because it is unbiblical.

Romans 11:20-22 (KJV)

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Please note that he is talking about Gentile Christians, for only Christians can be grafted in and stand by their faith (v.20). And only those who have been grafted in can be “cut off.”

God bless,
Michael

 

[okieflyer]

Because it was invented by ONE man. No Church had anything to do with the idea. Thus its heresy.

And no, John Calvin or Martin Luther aren’t heads of churches and they have no authority to create one on thier own.

Only Jesus did and has that authority.

He created one that they didn’t like.

Protesters can claim that Jesus is the head of their church but its really the Protester whos false teaching it was founded on.

Subversion from satan himself.

Are protestants Christians?

 

[NotWorthy]

Are protestants Christians?

Why, of course they are, don’t be ridiculous!

Were you baptized with a Trinitarian Formula? If so, you are also Catholic… just not in perfect communion with Christ’s Church!

 

[maryrev12]

We are saved by faith not by works, but we say it is by grace through faith. Grace is the real cause, faith is just the means. It is like the pipe through which the water flows. It is not the water.
Everyone is given the grace but not all will have the faith.

wow…".Everyone is given the grace but not all will have the faith."

“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age…” this is one of my favorite verses, and said it so succintly!
And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.God who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,***

I hope its okay to post… I only just joined… but how wonderful to wallow in subjects such as " grace" and “salvation!”

9Titus 2:10-12, Romans 11:6,2 Timothy 1:9

 

[Robert902]

Are protestants Christians?

Many Catholics here seem to think that Protestant theology is from the “pit of Hell”. Jesus told Nicodemus that “you must be born again” to inherit everlasting life. So according to Jesus, if you are born again, you are one of His children, and yes a Christian.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[Robert902]

Robert, the most accurate statement in your post is:
They may seem to disagree, but they don’t.

Try reading John 15 one more time:

*** If you keep my commandments***, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

Are you saying that if I don’t keep God’s commandments that I can lose my salvation? I thought that’s why Christ had to die on the cross…because I’m a sinner and can’t keep His commandments. I though that believers weren’t judged for their sins?

God Bless,
Robert

These are people that have acquired Everlasting Life for they have just received the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ at the Last Supper. And yet, they may not remain in Him.

To these same people, Jesus says 3-4 verses later:

It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.

So the people that Jesus chose (pre-destined in your opinion, but actually double pre-destination is what you are preaching for we all our pre-destined to go to Heaven) still have to remain in his commandments.

There’s so much more to your post that is incomplete or inconsistent with 2000 years of Christian teaching, but its late and I’m going to bed shortly.

 

[Robert902]

Because it takes away my free will to reject God. The same free will that allows me to accept Him…teachccd

If God chose us “before the foundation of time”, how is it possible to reject Him? If you were chosen before the foundation of time, you can not, and will not reject Him! In other words, if you reject Him, you were not one of those whom God chose before the foundation of time.
I don’t know why this is so difficult. There’s a guarantee that comes with your salvation…it can’t be taken away from you. It’s a gift.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[NotWorthy]

Are you saying that if I don’t keep God’s commandments that I can lose my salvation? I thought that’s why Christ had to die on the cross…because I’m a sinner and can’t keep His commandments. I though that believers weren’t judged for their sins?

God Bless,
Robert

Robert, why are you questioning me? You believe in Sola Scriptura - listen to Scripture.

*** If you keep my commandments***, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

Those are Jesus’ words. Also, remember, Jesus gave us a New Commandment. “To Love one another as I have loved you”. Did He give us a commandment that He knew we couldn’t keep?

These are people that have acquired Everlasting Life for they have just received the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ at the Last Supper. And yet, they may not remain in Him.

Robert, Everlasting Life is what? See, this is where we disagree. The Holy Spirit dwelling in our soul is Everlasting Life, for God is Life Eternal. While we remain in this state, what we call the State of Grace, we have this Everlasting Life (We are Filled with His Grace). But, when we commit mortal sin, we turn away from God and His Love.

Hence, you may have Life Eternal, but that doesn’t mean you’ll have Life Eternally!

I had to address this post one more time:

I though that believers weren’t judged for their sins?

Where in the world does Jesus say that we are to be judged by anything other than our actions?

I thought the parable of the Sheeps and Goats was rather clear on this.

 

[Robert902]

Because it was invented by ONE man. No Church had anything to do with the idea. Thus its heresy.

But what about the doctrine of election?

And no, John Calvin or Martin Luther aren’t heads of churches and they have no authority to create one on thier own.

I don’t think either of them pretended to be the head of the church, like the Pope has.

Only Jesus did and has that authority.

Correct, only Jesus has the authority.

He created one that they didn’t like.

Protesters can claim that Jesus is the head of their church but its really the Protester whos false teaching it was founded on.

The Bible say’s that Jesus is the Head of the church, and the believers are the body. This is not a false teaching.

Subversion from satan himself.

1 Thess. 5:20-21 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.” You might want to “test” some of what you have said here.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[NotWorthy]

If God chose us “before the foundation of time”, how is it possible to reject Him?

Two words, Bay-bee!!! “Free Will” And, unforunately, we exercise it all too often.

If you were chosen before the foundation of time, you can not, and will not reject Him! In other words, if you reject Him, you were not one of those whom God chose before the foundation of time.
I don’t know why this is so difficult. There’s a guarantee that comes with your salvation…it can’t be taken away from you. It’s a gift.

God Bless,
Robert

You’re absolutely 100% right!!! Well, almost. It can’t be taken away form us, but unfortunately we can give it away.

Look at the Prodigal Son. Remember Jesus is talking about the Kingdom of God.

The Son is part of the family. (He would be “saved” at this point in time, a child of God).

The Son gives up his inheritance for the evils of this world. (He’s turned his back on God).

The Son repents and turns back to the Father. Notice the Son had to repent and then return to the Father before he was welcomed back. He still had nothing while he was servicing the pigs, but got the robe and the ring when he came back to His Father’s Home.

Beautiful Story!!!

 

[NotWorthy]

I don’t think either of them pretended to be the head of the church, like the Pope has.

Pretended? Or just following Scripture!!!

Only Jesus did and has that authority.

And on Peter He built His Church

Correct, only Jesus has the authority.

And what did Jesus do with that authority? Is this so confusing?

 

[teachccd]

If God chose us “before the foundation of time”, how is it possible to reject Him? If you were chosen before the foundation of time, you can not, and will not reject Him! In other words, if you reject Him, you were not one of those whom God chose before the foundation of time.
I don’t know why this is so difficult. There’s a guarantee that comes with your salvation…it can’t be taken away from you. It’s a gift.

God Bless,
Robert

So then, I have no free will?? Sounds robotic to me and not from a God who within Himself exhibits free will. No, sorry, everytime you sin you reject God. And unless you are perfect, you do it all of the time. It’s in his mercy that you are saved not some predetermined fate. Your theology is lacking in Christian antiquity…God Bless…teachccd

 

[NotWorthy]

So then, I have no free will?? Sounds robotic to me and not from a God who within Himself exhibits free will. No, sorry, everytime you sin you reject God. And unless you are perfect, you do it all of the time. It’s in his mercy that you are saved not some predetermined fate. Your theology is lacking in Christian antiquity…God Bless…teachccd

If we’re either pre-destined for heaven or for hell, what’s the point of all of this?

 

[Techno2000]

I agree 100% but you’ve missed my point. I maybe should have been more clear.

If you can earn your way to heaven by works alone
Jesus dying on the cross would be the greatest tradgedy ever.

You earn your way to Heaven by having faith and doing Good Works, (TOGETHER) why is this so hard a thing for Protestants to understand ?

 

[NotWorthy]

You earn your way to Heaven by having faith and doing Good Works, (TOGETHER) why is this so hard a thing for Protestants to understand ?

“Earn” is an incorrect term. This implies that you have done the work that gets you to heaven, when, in fact, Jesus is the one that did the work to get you to heaven. Our faith and our works will bring to fruition Jesus’ promises of eternal life for us, but** it’s His actions that get you to heaven**. The Catholic Church does not teach “Works Salvation”!!

Our desire to do these good works are a result of our accepting the Graces He gave us to do them.

Think of it this way. If you tell your child, “If you clean up your room for a week, I’ll take you to Disneyworld.” The child does it, and you take him to Disneyworld. The child still had to depend on you to get him to Disneyworld. If you reneged on your promise, he wouldn’t be any closer to Disneyworld than before he cleaned up his room.

The child didn’t work his way to Disneyworld, you simply went through with your promise to him, as we can trust Jesus will if we obey His commandments.

 

[Techno2000]

“Earn” is an incorrect term. This implies that you have done the work that gets you to heaven, when, in fact, Jesus is the one that did the work to get you to heaven. Our faith and our works will bring to fruition Jesus’ promises of eternal life for us, but** it’s His actions that get you to heaven**. The Catholic Church does not teach “Works Salvation”!!

Our desire to do these good works are a result of our accepting the Graces He gave us to do them.

Think of it this way. If you tell your child, “If you clean up your room for a week, I’ll take you to Disneyworld.” The child does it, and you take him to Disneyworld. The child still had to depend on you to get him to Disneyworld. If you reneged on your promise, he wouldn’t be any closer to Disneyworld than before he cleaned up his room.

The child didn’t work his way to Disneyworld, you simply went through with your promise to him, as we can trust Jesus will if we obey His commandments.

Good works :matt 25
Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

 

[NotWorthy]

Good works :matt 25
Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

Techno, the key point is what “earned” our way to heaven. Nothing we can do can “earn” heaven.

Are works important? Of course, I never claimed they weren’t. But what they do is please God, and prompts Him to act upon His abundant promises.

That way, we cannot boast.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

Techno, the key point is what “earned” our way to heaven. Nothing we can do can “earn” heaven.

Are works important? Of course, I never claimed they weren’t. But what they do is please God, and prompts Him to act upon His abundant promises.

That way, we cannot boast.

Here is the problem with your reply: But

You should never leave out to argue to exclude works from your salvation in the least. If you do then you risk joining these:

Matt 25
Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

Do you call yourself NotWorthy because you fear being proud or have a hard time being humble? Do you not think knowing better than Jesus himself is being proud and no different than boasting.

Here is a humble response to the Lords words there:

Yes Lord I will do my best to help all those I can for your sake. (Just leave the word BUT out of it if you can, if you can’t then at least, then do what you protest against because you know its right. The protest is forgiven if the command is obeyed unless perhaps you lead others astray with that protest.

A man had two sons. One protested about what he was told to do but did it anyway, the other said he would do his task but did not. Which do you think received reward?

 

[KatholikosMercy]

Are protestants Christians?

Dr. Art Sippo writes “[No salvation outside the Church] was reiterated at Vatican II in Lumen Gentium Paragraph 14. Now formal membership is the ordinary means of salvation, but the Church has always accepted that there can be extenuating circumstances and that one may be related to the Catholic Church less formally [this will include many Christians of other denominations]. Technically, all validly baptized persons are members of the Catholic Church.”

Also some honest seekers, who through no fault of their own, did not learn about the the Catholic Church will be saved.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

Why, of course they are, don’t be ridiculous!

Were you baptized with a Trinitarian Formula? If so, you are also Catholic… just not in perfect communion with Christ’s Church!

Do you think he was trying to be rediculous? Maybe it was a sincere and legitimate question.

To me this sounds like a proud response for some one who claims to be Not Worthy.

I think your the one who ridiculed his question. My words are an example of me attempting a good work.