We ARE saved by Works.

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Here is the problem with your reply: But

You should never leave out to argue to exclude works from your salvation in the least. If you do then you risk joining these:

Matt 25
Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
I am a firm believer in works. I think you are misunderstanding thep point. I’m a firm believer that our works our integral to our Salvation. I don’t like the term “earn”.
Do you call yourself NotWorthy because you fear being proud or have a hard time being humble? Do you not think knowing better than Jesus himself is being proud and no different than boasting.
My pride is my biggest downfall. Again, I do not know better than Jesus.

Re-read my post.
Here is a humble response to the Lords words there:
Yes Lord I will do my best to help all those I can for your sake. (Just leave the word BUT out of it if you can, if you can’t then at least, then do what you protest against because you know its right. The protest is forgiven if the command is obeyed unless perhaps you lead others astray with that protest.
A man had two sons. One protested about what he was told to do but did it anyway, the other said he would do his task but did not. Which do you think received reward?
Look at my story about the kid going to Disneyland.
 
I am a firm believer in works. I think you are misunderstanding thep point. I’m a firm believer that our works our integral to our Salvation. I don’t like the term “earn”.
I think how the term “earn” is used falsely in regard to works/justification/salvation is an example of how protestants use an incomplete truth to negate its fullness. As all the “solas” do.

In fact there is no truth within protestantism that has not been taken from the true church.
 
I think how the term “earn” is used falsely in regard to works/justification/salvation is an example of how protestants use an incomplete truth to negate its fullness. As all the “solas” do.

In fact there is no truth within protestantism that has not been taken from the true church.
OK, but “when I was with the Greeks, I acted like the Greeks. When I was with the Romans, I acted like the Romans.” If there is a difference in what earn means, we might want to define it, for I don’t know of any irregularities.

Again, to further flesh out my example of works.

A) A boy is promised that if he keeps his room clean for a month, he’ll be rewarded with a trip to Disneyworld. The boy does it, and his dad takes him.

B) A second boy gets a job delivering newspapers, and in a years time, he’s saved enough money to go to Disneyworld. He buys his tickets and pays his way entirely.

The first boy performed the “works” necessary to get to Disneyland (heaven), but he still had to trust his father to get him there. These works were dependent upon the father’s promise, or else he would not have got to heaven. The Works were necessary, but they boy didn’t “earn” the trip.

The 2nd boy performed the “works” necessary to get to Disneyland (heaven), and needed no outside assistance. He earned the trip with his own sweat. This is what “Works Salvation” preaches, and the Catholic Church does not teach this.
 
Saved by works alone? I thought we were saved by our belief in Jesus Christ. The Bible clearly states “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

I see people that go to mass because they “have to”, not because they want. They have an obligation. They go in late and leave 1/2 hour before the mass is over. What value is that? I’m sure that is not what God has in mind.
 
If there is a difference in what earn means, we might want to define it, for I don’t know of any irregularities.
The irregularity is that the protestant doctrine of “Faith Alone” accuses the Church of mandating the use of sacraments to “earn” salvation which is a complete fabrication.

When you say “earn” salvation in the mainstream protestant/evengelical mindset it means that the Church has added to the false doctrine of “Fatih Alone” that protesting the truth created in the first place.

Sacraments aren’t additions to Christs words but fulfillments of his ordinances that in and of themselves do not earn salvation but are helps along the road to justification and sanctification.
 
I see people that go to mass because they “have to”, not because they want. They have an obligation. They go in late and leave 1/2 hour before the mass is over. What value is that? I’m sure that is not what God has in mind.
The Mass is the perpetuation of the “once for all” sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross. Since God is not in time His sacrifice can be presented as a gift to all generations. Jesus is the eternal high priest offering the eternal sacrifice to the Father. Mass is literally presenting yourself at the foot of the Cross.

Now…why would anyone feel that they “have to” attend the moment when Heaven and earth meet?? Mind boggler…🤷
 
I see people that go to mass because they “have to”, not because they want. They have an obligation. They go in late and leave 1/2 hour before the mass is over. What value is that? I’m sure that is not what God has in mind.
So are you judging the Church Jesus created by the speck in your brothers eye?

If your focus was on Jesus you wouldn’t see the faults in your brother except to help him.

Accusations and confusion aren’t of God but of the world.
 
Katholicos, I’m not judging. I’m just stunned that they all leave so early. And they aren’t just walking out to their cars, they are walking quite rapidly.
 
“Earn” is an incorrect term. This implies that you have done the work that gets you to heaven, when, in fact, Jesus is the one that did the work to get you to heaven. Our faith and our works will bring to fruition Jesus’ promises of eternal life for us, but** it’s His actions that get you to heaven**. The Catholic Church does not teach “Works Salvation”!!

Our desire to do these good works are a result of our accepting the Graces He gave us to do them.

Think of it this way. If you tell your child, “If you clean up your room for a week, I’ll take you to Disneyworld.” The child does it, and you take him to Disneyworld. The child still had to depend on you to get him to Disneyworld. If you reneged on your promise, he wouldn’t be any closer to Disneyworld than before he cleaned up his room.

The child didn’t work his way to Disneyworld, you simply went through with your promise to him, as we can trust Jesus will if we obey His commandments.
Hi NotWorthy,

45 Again the kingdom of heaven is like to a merchant seeking good pearls.
46 Who when he had found one pearl of great price, went his way, and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Notice the Pearl has a Price Tag on it.
 
Katholicos, I’m not judging. I’m just stunned that they all leave so early. And they aren’t just walking out to their cars, they are walking quite rapidly.
Apostacy is a terrible thing. It affects all walks of people. Its of the world and our current liberal and secular society is expert at prying us away from God. Add that influence to the pull of the flesh and its all to the Glory of God that anyone is in any Church at all these days.

Besides there are alot of reasons why a person might leave Mass early. i.e.: unruly kids, uncomfortable guilt, appointments, irreverance, impatience, etc etc.

Personally I take it as a measure of the health of my own soul if the Mass feels like a chore.
I have never been so spiritaully sick as when the Mass felt long. By the grace of God that is no longer the case.
Prayer and trust in God is the cure.
 
A) A boy is promised that if he keeps his room clean for a month, he’ll be rewarded with a trip to Disneyworld. The boy does it, and his dad takes him.

B) A second boy gets a job delivering newspapers, and in a years time, he’s saved enough money to go to Disneyworld. He buys his tickets and pays his way entirely.

The first boy performed the “works” necessary to get to Disneyland (heaven), but he still had to trust his father to get him there. These works were dependent upon the father’s promise, or else he would not have got to heaven. The Works were necessary, but they boy didn’t “earn” the trip.

The 2nd boy performed the “works” necessary to get to Disneyland (heaven), and needed no outside assistance. He earned the trip with his own sweat. This is what “Works Salvation” preaches, and the Catholic Church does not teach this.
But boy A’s father could still take him to Disneyland even if he failed to do his room every day. There is no fixed quantity of works to receive God’s grace and mercy.
 
KatholikosMercy, after being around catholics all my life, I was always amazed when they talked about how long the mass was or how long was the sermon. I’ve seen people looking at their watches, sighing loud, filing their nails.

When I said “had to go” earlier, I was thinking back to when I was six years old, going on seven. Mom said that pretty soon I’d have to go to church every Sunday. I said “what if I don’t want to go?” Her reply was “oh, you’ll have to!” No explanation, nothing. I learned in the schools though, why. No problem with that, there were some times when I was attending mass that I felt some kind of holiness. I have a sister that almost lost her very premature baby years ago. She went to the parish pastor and asked for some kind of consideration or comfort. What did he say to her? “If he dies, he dies, what do you want from me?”

Compassion for one thing, buster. That was the last time she went to a catholic church. When my only brother was killed, I went to my pastor. He looked at me as if I stepped off a space ship. His words? “What do you want from me? I never knew your brother!”

That was MY last time.
 
Works allow us to put our faith into practice in addition to prayer, etc… One can consider the Parable of the Talents as likened to God giving each of us a talent (faith). When the King returned he held each servant accountable for what he/she did with their talent. The results ranged from doubling their investment to going and burying their talent and doing nothing with it.

Remember, apart from Jesus we can do nothing. We are totally dependent upon our Lord to infuse us with faith and direct us to do works of charity, etc…
 
KatholikosMercy, after being around catholics all my life, I was always amazed when they talked about how long the mass was or how long was the sermon. I’ve seen people looking at their watches, sighing loud, filing their nails.

When I said “had to go” earlier, I was thinking back to when I was six years old, going on seven. Mom said that pretty soon I’d have to go to church every Sunday. I said “what if I don’t want to go?” Her reply was “oh, you’ll have to!” No explanation, nothing. I learned in the schools though, why. No problem with that, there were some times when I was attending mass that I felt some kind of holiness. I have a sister that almost lost her very premature baby years ago. She went to the parish pastor and asked for some kind of consideration or comfort. What did he say to her? “If he dies, he dies, what do you want from me?”

Compassion for one thing, buster. That was the last time she went to a catholic church. When my only brother was killed, I went to my pastor. He looked at me as if I stepped off a space ship. His words? “What do you want from me? I never knew your brother!”

That was MY last time.
Have you ever heard the story of Job, look what kind of testing
God put him through, start saying the Rosary, you will conquer
everything.angelfire.com/ca3/rafaelmarie/ThePieta/srosaryscapular.html
 
Techno, I have read Job, what has that to do with my message?

No, I will not say the rosary. You can, if you wish.
 
Compassion for one thing, buster. That was the last time she went to a catholic church. When my only brother was killed, I went to my pastor. He looked at me as if I stepped off a space ship. His words? “What do you want from me? I never knew your brother!”

That was MY last time.
Yea, I hear you. I had a similar experience when I was a child, I didn’t want to go either. So when I was old enough I didn’t. I then went even further and did what ever I wanted.

When I took my unbaptized and unmarried girlfriend with me to see a priest to get my son baptized 25 years ago and was told no I was insulted too. It really did feel insensitive but I later would find out I was blaming the church for my own mistakes and the priests percieved insensitivity to my own detriment. The accuser succeeded in getting me on his side.

Continuing to live “my” way led me to fail of course which in turn led me to NEED answers. I looked everywhere but only found bits and pieces of truth outside of the Church. Though alot of it sounded good and tickled my ears it failed to provide what I needed. Only the richness of the Church could do that and eventually I was back to stay.

About 10 years ago I realized that priest was no different than when Jesus told the man who wanted to go bury is father before coming to follow Him to “let the dead bury the dead”. At the time though It felt very judgemental and I was offended. Your story reminds me of this. Well, anyways, 17 years later I saw that son come into the Church. I now have a 12 year old and 14 year old from the woman I replaced the first one with in the same boat. This time I realize its not the Churchs responsibility but mine.

I am no longer angry with God for my mistakes or holding him responsible for anyone elses either. He has met me in the abyss of my missery and sorrow unto death 3 times and His Mercy has been greater and lifted me out of the hell I had plunged myself into. God doesn’t want to hear “the devil made me do it”.
 
Techno, I have read Job, what has that to do with my message?

No, I will not say the rosary. You can, if you wish.
Sounds like got brainwashed with Protestants teachings can you
tell us some these teaching that make you abhor the Rosary.
 
I don’t “abhor” the rosary. I just will not say it anymore. Sorry.

I was NOT brainwashed by the Protestants either. What I have learned from them in two short years has put me closer to God than 50+ years from the catholics.
 
I don’t “abhor” the rosary. I just will not say it anymore. Sorry.

I was NOT brainwashed by the Protestants either. What I have learned from them in two short years has put me closer to God than 50+ years from the catholics.
And did they teach you the Jesus was NOT present in the Eucharist ?
 
Hi NotWorthy,

45 Again the kingdom of heaven is like to a merchant seeking good pearls.
46 Who when he had found one pearl of great price, went his way, and sold all that he had, and bought it.

** Notice the Pearl has a Price Tag on it**.
That’s right! We all must clean our rooms!!! 🙂
 
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