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Brooklyn
Guest
Nah, I think they are all going to run away from that question. The answer reveals too much.
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scipio337
Guest
My guess is the
“Yes, provided 5 million Palestinian Arab refugees can return to their homes, (and the nation of 5.7 million Jews and 1.5 million Palestinian Arabs will be no more)”
argument. Same as Ahmadenijad/Hamas.
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Kadaveri
Guest
This says more about how insane a country Israel is than anything else.
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silentstar
Guest
yes, OF COURSE they do and I find that a loaded question, like ‘when did you stop beating your wife?’
I do think Israel gets more criticism than other nations. I think there are several reasons for this. First of all, Christians grow up hearing about Nazareth, Bethlehem and Jerusalem, not Hong Kong, Seoul and Taiwan. So I think it’s natural for many Christians to think about the Middle East and pay attention to tensions there.
Second, the existence of Israel is often framed as a “rising from the ashes” of the Holocaust. Both Jews and non-Jews do this. In my opinion this is a mistake because it triggers the desire to believe that people who have gone through terrible trauma, and then rebuilt their lives, etc. are going to be somehow “better” than ordinary people. Also plans for Israel were in the works before the Holocaust.
Obviously the Holocaust had a huge influence but I think it would be better if those statements about “rising from the ashes” were qualified a bit, to make it more like “many people who had been destroyed in the Holocaust were lost, and many survivors invested their hopes, dreams, and labor into the formation of Israel, but they are a country with ordinary people like any other” - something like that but phrased a little bit better.
Because the way it is framed now, you (this is how it happened for me) learn about the Holocaust which evokes horror, disgust, despair and many other emotions - along with respect and admiration for those who survived. And then you hear about Israel and somehow, to me at least, it felt like a letdown when Israelis turned out to be ordinary people. They are not “saints.”
A strong focus on Israel keeps attention away from the fact that the United States is dependent on oil sold by countries in the Middle East. Up to now, having Israel as an ally helped us maintain some control there, but now that tensions are rising it is no longer clear that that is the case.
Then I have heard the issue summarized as follows: “too many people; not enough land.”
I have no idea what the solution should be but losing Israel is not part of it. However that does not mean I endorse their recent behavior in any way - I think they have to be careful about distinguishing true threats from exaggerated ones.
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Brooklyn
Guest
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nsper7
Guest
I still don’t understand what the big deal is about what happened:
- Foreign ships enter Israeli waters
- Israel orders them to dock at an Israeli port for inspection of good (the assumption is that Israel is making sure weapons or other contraband isn’t being brought in) after which the goods will be delivered to the Gaza Strip
- Foreign ships refuse to obey Israeli order
- In response, Israeli Naval forces board said ships
- On at least one of the ships, members of the crew engage Israeli forces in combat
- During this combat, several crew members are killed
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Kadaveri
Guest
Those ships were in international waters and had no intention of entering Israeli waters, unless international waters now belong to Israel.
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Brooklyn
Guest
This is absolutely not true. You obviously didn’t read earlier in the thread when I posted an article from ABC News done prior to the flotilla leaving Turkey. The article is dated May 28, 2010:
"Nine ships carrying hundreds of tons of humanitarian aid and 600 pro-Palestinian activists are bound for the Gaza Strip today in an attempt to break through Israel’s 3-year-old blockade of the Hamas-run coastal territory.
Israel says it is determined to prevent the ships from reaching their destination, and a detention camp has been prepared in the nearby Israeli port of Ashdod to process and deport those taking part in the flotilla. Naval patrol vessels and high-speed missile boats are preparing to confront the ships, which are expected in the area Saturday morning. "
The article goes on to state:
"It has offered to offload the flotilla’s cargo and, once screened, transfer the supplies into Gaza by land. The ships carry 10,000 tons of cement, water purification kits and pre-fabricated houses. "
abcnews.go.com/International/flotilla-heads-gaza-blockade/story?id=10767663
How do you explain that fact that there were no incidents whatsoever with the first 5 ships that were boarded, and it was only with this ship that violence erupted? Israel even offered to deliver the “aid”!!! This was a publicity stunt gone very bad. The people on these ships had been warned before they ever left. They knew they were breaking a legal blockade by both Israel and Egypt, and they knew there were other ways to get the humanitarian aid to Gaza rather than going through the blockade.
Did you also know that Israel then took the “aid” off the ships to deliver to Gaza, and that it was then rejected?
You need to get your facts straight before you start making pronouncements.
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iamrefreshed
Guest
This is comical.
If you wish to be taken seriously don’t make up stories to suit your position.
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