"We must do everything possible"-'No more war'

[Divine3]

What is the solution to a Nation that no longer has a government which protects its citizens and treats them with dignity? Is the solution to always have our armed forces there and how long do they stay? How do you bring a government that is not your own to justice? Is it by having a foreign army stay in a Nation whose government wants nothing to do with us.
I don’t know the answers but it must be awful for the people in Syria. To be there and then pull out those who were protecting Syria does seem poorly planned-- but what is the solution?

 

[EndTimes]

I hope there is not war either. But to compare the drone strike to take out a terrorist to 9-11 is one of the more ridiculous things I’ve heard. And it is quite insulting. On one hand you have an evil human being being brought to justice. On the other hand is thousands of innocent civilians being killed

That’s your opinion… way overboard and short-sighted - in my humble opinion…

An Rough Analogy wrt to your view of one man - as if much of the world views it in that manner (They do Not) would be akin to - if Iran killed the one man - the POTUS - via whatever means…

The drone strike has - for starters - already promulgated destructive reactions - and devasting serious threats - as did 911. (Afghanistan, et cet)…

And We’ve by no means witnessed the end of war -

… for Jesus Himself speaks long about Wars which Must occur.

So… re: Iran… We shall see what we shall see.

 

[LebaneseCatbolic]

The least we can do is while our troops occupy the land to keep them from enforcing their abusive laws. I honestly don’t know. I just want the best for my Eastern Catholic and Christian and all faithed brothers and sisters. I doubt letting these regimes keep oppressing their own people will help though. We can only pray

 

[OneSheep]

I wish that Iran doesn’t need war (Im Lebanese Maronite) but sometimes, I feel it may be necessary. Iran is a country of persecution and millions live under an evil regime of Islam and its proxies who sell narcotics to latin Americans like Hezbollah. It’s a shame half the maronites support hezbollah and Iran. I think as the U.S.A, it is our duty to stop human rights violations. We can’t just sit and let the world burn. These countries like Iran and Syria must change their ways. Sure ware may be deadly, but I fear in some cases, especially when they provoke it, it might be necessary.

I hope I didn’t commit a sin by saying that war in Iran to free the people and the Christians might be necessary and must happen at one point or another…

The thing is, the assassination of Soleimani was either murder, or an act of war. Catholic Just War doctrine forbids use of war unless all other means are exhausted. Reports say that Soleimani was delivering information and was involved in, efforts to deescalate hostilities between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It was essentially a peaceful mission.

If a leader planning to assassinate is justifiably murdered, then those who planned Soleimani’s assasination are also justifiably targets. This is completely against Just War doctrine.

When he went to withdraw from Syria people on the left went nuts, howling about how his plan For withdrawal was too fast, it was wrong and how it was going to cause some kind of disaster etc.

People who are pawns of AIPAC, on the left and right, went “nuts” until Trump realized his error in angering AIPAC, then he capitulated.

And We’ve by no means witnessed the end of war

This war is unjust, according to Just War Doctrine.

We have no business being over there.

 

[LebaneseCatbolic]

And I am not saying America’s hands are clean. I am pretty young, and I see what is ‘normal’ for people my age. Trust me, the fact that abortion is controversial and that most Catholics of America still seem to use Artificial Birth Control anyways says a lot. The west has pretty much reverted back to the scandalous times of Egypt with their heiroglyph emoji texts, and to the sexually perverted times of Pagan Rome. But at least it’s workable. I just don’t understand how we can be fine while letting human rights violations persist and even helping them under Obama. There are the starved to feed, the thirsty to give water, the homeless to be cared, the oppressed to be secured. We can put America first, but the world must be a close second. It’s tricky with Iran, since they and their proxies assad and hezbollah use us Maronites and the other people of the middle east as basically meat shields. Thank The Lord that my family left that literal Hell
of the middle east before I was born…

 

[LebaneseCatbolic]

I see…

However, how do you think we can deal with them?The sanctions will hurt the people too, and the government doesnt care, they’ll just take money away to fill in the missing gaps of their spending. We need to somehow increase pressure on them.

Also, wasn’t Suleimani a Terrorist? Doesn’t he have so much American blood on his hands? Wasn’t he Iran’s master strategist in Syria to but down a revolt for democracy and rights for Assad? I say down with the regimes. Down with Syria, Hezbollah, and Iran. Down with North Korea. Let the people rule. How can we just talk to the Ayatollah when possibly thousands of Christians are facing persecution for their lives? Must we just let our brothers and sisters go on alone? Or must we just keep this status quo, which satisfies nobody, but won’t (Hopefully) cost lives? This is actually hard for me to answer. I can’t bear to see a bloody war, but neither can I accept the atrocities these countries do…

Edit2: By Necessary was a weird word. I meant it more as in an inevitable way. I think it’s not a matter of if, but a matter of when. I just pray it won’t be bloody.

 

[Crocus]

Reports say that Soleimani was delivering information and was involved in, efforts to deescalate hostilities between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It was essentially a peaceful mission.

I heard that too. If those reports are indeed true, it is a tragic ambush with who knows what consequences.

 

[Asinner]

Those reports are bull and everyone knows it. You know who got blown up alongside Salami? The commander of the rouge Iraqi militia that killed an American a couple months ago and wreaked havoc in Iraq (his name was Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis). Old Salami wasn’t even allowed to be out of Iran, but there he was in Iraq with another terrorist. He was working on more attacks and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

And regarding consequences? Iran is backing down. They’ve given up. They’re not retaliating, except for one purely symbolic gesture that was calculated not to kill anyone or escalate. Blowing up Salami is probably the most genius military move I’ve ever seen in my life.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

I love this song and sing it as often as I can at the Mass and other events in the Church. I have heard it was not composed by St Francis of Assisi. Details escape me atm.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

Thing is, our President promised people that if he were elected, he would pull out troops out of Iraq and keep the US out of foreign wars. His voters would like to see that promise kept.

That would be nice.

 

[Divine3]

I think sanctions are a cruel way to force a nation…usually the poor suffer, the working class and minorities.

 

[Divine3]

They gave up? How many underground radical Muslims are here in the USA? Daesh is far from being gone. And how many youth in the USA are converting to Islam?

 

[AlNg]

We have no business being over there.

Some say that there are two reasons:
Oil
Israel

And how many youth in the USA are converting to Islam?

Islam is growing quite rapidly all over the world. Why do you suppose that is?

 

[mythbuster1]

Who said targeting the enemy’s high command is off-limits? The assassination of Soleimani was a proportional response to the attack on our embassy, which killed an American. It was by demonstrating that we would target the Iranian high command that we got Iran to back down and avoided a full-scale war.

 

[LebaneseCatbolic]

That’s what I mean. Santions hurt the people more. But without them, we will be letting them do whatever they want. We would be unknowingly financing their campaign. We can’t just sit and hope sanctions will stop them. We need to change their whole regime, or they will never leave us alone.

 

[LebaneseCatbolic]

God bless the people in the middle east.

 

[Asinner]

They gave up?

Nothing you listed has anything to do with Iran and their military. (“Daesh” is another name for ISIS, which is not only not part of Iran but is actually an enemy of Iran). I stand by what I said.

 

[CatholicSooner]

LebaneseCatbolic:

I wish that Iran doesn’t need war (Im Lebanese Maronite) but sometimes, I feel it may be necessary. Iran is a country of persecution and millions live under an evil regime of Islam and its proxies who sell narcotics to latin Americans like Hezbollah. It’s a shame half the maronites support hezbollah and Iran. I think as the U.S.A, it is our duty to stop human rights violations. We can’t just sit and let the world burn. These countries like Iran and Syria must change their ways. Sure ware may be deadly, but I fear in some cases, especially when they provoke it, it might be necessary.

I hope I didn’t commit a sin by saying that war in Iran to free the people and the Christians might be necessary and must happen at one point or another…

The thing is, the assassination of Soleimani was either murder, or an act of war. Catholic Just War doctrine forbids use of war unless all other means are exhausted. Reports say that Soleimani was delivering information and was involved in, efforts to deescalate hostilities between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It was essentially a peaceful mission.

If a leader planning to assassinate is justifiably murdered, then those who planned Soleimani’s assasination are also justifiably targets. This is completely against Just War doctrine.

When he went to withdraw from Syria people on the left went nuts, howling about how his plan For withdrawal was too fast, it was wrong and how it was going to cause some kind of disaster etc.

People who are pawns of AIPAC, on the left and right, went “nuts” until Trump realized his error in angering AIPAC, then he capitulated.

And We’ve by no means witnessed the end of war

This war is unjust, according to Just War Doctrine.

We have no business being over there.

I’m not so sure we have all of the information to determine if it is just war. The public knows very little about what goes on behind closed doors.

 

[OneSheep]

Blowing up Salami is probably the most genius military move I’ve ever seen in my life.

Hmm. Except that it was totally against the precepts of Just War Doctrine, avoidance of war being the central concept. Is your use of “Salami” supposed to be durogatory?

Some say that there are two reasons:
Oil

Not a single life is worth oil.

Israel

Since they continue to provoke their enemies by demolishing homes and confiscating resources and property, our support for them is a matter of co-dependency. This is not a good relationship. Israel can, and should, defend itself.

Who said targeting the enemy’s high command is off-limits?

The action was against Just War Doctrine:

Avoiding war

2307 The fifth commandment forbids the intentional destruction of human life. Because of the evils and injustices that accompany all war, the Church insistently urges everyone to prayer and to action so that the divine Goodness may free us from the ancient bondage of war.105

2308 All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war.

However, “as long as the danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.”

2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

• the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
• all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
• there must be serious prospects of success;
• the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the “just war” doctrine.

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

 

[OneSheep]

I’m not so sure we have all of the information to determine if it is just war. The public knows very little about what goes on behind closed doors

1. Since the current US administration is against diplomacy with Iran, they certainly have not done all they could rather than the assassinations.
2. It is the leadership of Iraq that is responsible for the common good of their people, not the US administration. We have already done huge harm to the common good there.
3. The assassination does nothing to help our national security or the security of Iraqis. Soleimani was simply replaced, the people of both Iran and Iraq are very angry, and if the US had any role in Iraqi national security, that role has been replaced with seeing the US as a threat to Iraqi citizens, and now they want us out. This means that the action made everything worse, creating “evils and disorders worse than the one eliminated”. All escalation does this.

Frankly, I don’t see how the assassination comes anywhere close to meeting the criteria.