"We must do everything possible"-'No more war'

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CatholicSooner said:
That is debatable
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It has been debated. The Catholic Church today is against the death penalty.

2266 The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people’s rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people’s safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party

Death does not contribute to the correction of a guilty party. We have means of dealing with crimes internationally. Assassination is not legal.
 
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I share in your prayers for peace.

Politically, don’t fall to the manipulative media hype. The general we killed is Iranian, and Iran, not Iraq, retaliated with missiles. They deliberately missed our targets. They needed a show of force to appease egos but know better than to push their luck with the U S

We cannot endlessly tolerate Iran’s reign of terror.
We have been dealing with them since the Carter administration.

Be mindful, too, that when US liberal media show crowds of mourners in the Iranian streets, and report on the people being United in grief, the media have not been honest about what is happening. Just as in the Chinese cultural revolution, citizens have no choice but to protest in support of the regime. Those who don’t are punished, their children, parents, brother’s, and wives are punished. If neighbors ignore their decision not to support the terrorist regime, the neighbors are punished. The spontaneous response…the honest one…was celebratory that the . . . man . . . was dead.

This man who was killed was working for Satan. Let’s not mourn him. God has now dealt with his soul.
 
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Kindnessmatters said:
Politically, don’t fall to the manipulative media hype…

We cannot endlessly tolerate Iran’s reign of terror.
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Sorry, friend, you contradicted yourself, and bought the media hype. Iran does not have a “reign of terror”. They have supported Hezbollah in Palestine to a limited degree, and Hezbollah has participated in terrorist acts. The US and Israel support MEK, which is responsible for terrorist acts in Iran.
Kindnessmatters said:
We have been dealing with them since the Carter administration.
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We had a nuclear agreement with them, which was very positive, but not perfect. Also, during the Iran-Iraq war we provided arms to Iran.

Also be mindful that we sponsored the overthrow of their elected leader in the 50’s.
Kindnessmatters said:
This man who was killed was working for Satan.
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An unfounded accusation. Does kindness matter? Charity?

We are called to understand and forgive, not condemn.
 
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Our country spends so much money on weaponry.
It seems like there are some who feel justified in using those weapons on occasion.
I never understood to reasoning for going to war against Iraq back when Iraq attacked Kuwait.
Then I did not understand the second war against Iraq.
Because of 9-11, we were justified in going after those who pulled off that attack, including Osama bin Laden.
But once we tracked down Osama and most of his cronies, we should have pulled out.
Now we appear to be locked in on another senseless, needless war. Why?
 
What it boils down to, are we Citizens of the Kingdom of God, are we Christians first or are we (insert name of the nation you call home) Citizens first?

If we are Christians, Catholics, Citizens of the Kingdom of God, first then we must talk about just war, about loving our enemies, and do everything we can to influence our leaders to act as upright and righteous people. If some leader spurns the morals of the just war doctrine, then, when we have the chance to vote again we need seek a candidate who has a moral and upright view.

Never, ever, are we to put political party above the Church.
 
Hezbollah is one of the most evil parties ever. Their mere name Hezb- Allah as a blasphemy to God. They are anything but Godly. They harass Lebanese, pull us into countless wars, they use us as cover, they manipulate Catholics there to like them for their ‘protection’, they lied and never fulfilled the Taif Agreement and kept their arms when every other party relinquished them to Hezbollahs Catholic Yes man Michel Aoun. They assist Palestinian militias to Harass Israel, and almost brought Lebanon to war with them some months ago. When Lebanese began protesting their corrupt, useless government and Hezbollah, they and their Amal thugs retaliated with violence immediately, while the 2 pro-Western major Christian parties submitted to the protest for freedom. Hezbollah is involved in Syria with Assad’s brutal regime, they assist Houthis in Yemen, they run almost a Mafia in Latin America with Narcotics and Money Laundering. They are strong and scary. Obama had the choice to cut their rope, but he instead gave them more. Are we supposed to just let them keep doing their atrocities?
 
OneSheep said:
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CatholicSooner:
That is debatable
Click to expand...
It has been debated. The Catholic Church today is against the death penalty.

2266 The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people’s rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people’s safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party

Death does not contribute to the correction of a guilty party. We have means of dealing with crimes internationally. Assassination is not legal.
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This isn’t dogma and the change to the Catechism is highly divisive and questionable.

By any means, I’m not sure the assasignation of the general calls under the category of the death penalty.
However, if you want it to, I could argue that he was put to death to prevent him from harming more people. Which is an example of why the death penalty should still be accepted by the Church. The US has no other means to stop the iranian general from harming and potentially killing more people.
 
Yes! If both sides would realize and apologize for their mistakes, we would be so much better. Actually if everyone on Earth stopped sinning, we would be in Utopia. However, Satan uses Earth as his playground…
 
I say we all pray to God, and let his will be done.

God knows better than all of us put together.
Just keep yourself strong, and God will take care of his faithful sheep. Trust the Lord, that is all I can say and do.
 
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Attacking another nation’s embassy is an act of war. President Trump had a choice: assassinate Soleimani or let the situation escalate. There was no peaceful outcome possible, because Iran had already committed to aggression. Islamic theocracies don’t negotiate with non-Muslims in good faith.
 
Who knows? Fatal stampedes have been a chronic problem in Mecca during the Hajj.
 
Capitulation is not diplomacy. The nuclear deal made no serious demands on Iran, and therefore constitutes a hudna, not peace. Given that Islam condones negotiating in bad faith with non-Muslims, up to and including breaking treaties without warning, no peace is possible without verifiable enforcement mechanisms. Apocalyptic theocrats with nuclear weapons is not an acceptable outcome.
 
CatholicSooner said:
the change to the Catechism is highly divisive and questionable.
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Okay, you question the catechism.
CatholicSooner said:
I could argue that he was put to death to prevent him from harming more people.
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If it isn’t murder, it’s war. There were many, many things that could have been done instead of assassination. It does not meet the criteria for just war by a long shot. I lined this out above.

Murdering a person who is planning to commit murder is still murder in the US, it is illegal and immoral.
CatholicSooner said:
Which is an example of why the death penalty should still be accepted by the Church.
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We have prisons to stop people from killing others. There are other means of bringing people to justice in the world.
CatholicSooner said:
The US has no other means to stop the iranian general from harming and potentially killing more people.
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We did not solve the problem. He was replaced by another general, and now US soldiers are more unwelcome in Iraq, and their government wants us out. The assassination was very foolish, as well as immoral.
mythbuster1 said:
President Trump had a choice: assassinate Soleimani or let the situation escalate.
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You must be joking. That is like saying that the only Iranian option is to kill Trump.
mythbuster1 said:
Attacking another nation’s embassy is an act of war.
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They did not kill anyone. Their were no soldiers in uniform there.
mythbuster1 said:
There was no peaceful outcome possible, because Iran had already committed to aggression.
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If the only outcome against aggression is more aggression, then wars will never end. Is that why our soldiers are over there for decades, because no one understands that wars can end through diplomacy? No, wars don’t end over there because Israel continues to unjustly steal land and resources, and demolish homes. We are there to make sure Israel can keep doing this.
mythbuster1 said:
The nuclear deal made no serious demands on Iran
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This is false. They had to stop the process of refining isotopes for use of making a bomb.
mythbuster1 said:
Given that Islam condones negotiating in bad faith with non-Muslims, up to and including breaking treaties without warning, no peace is possible without verifiable enforcement mechanisms
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Your “given” is not based on the knowing the stances of the actual people involved. If it can be proven, fine, but otherwise it simply sits there as an unfounded accusation. Negotiating in good faith with non-Muslims is not forbidden. Muslim people are people just as you and I.
 
They did kill someone, not a soldier, but a civilian contractor.
 
mythbuster1 said:
They did kill someone, not a soldier, but a civilian contractor.
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Yes, in a military strike. It did not happen during the demonstration, which was in response to the 25 or more people killed by US strikes.
 
OneSheep said:
Can you come up with a scenario by which diplomacy is not a valid option, instead of assassination?
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Do you realize that the assassination wasn’t random, it was in response to an attack on our embassy, where the perpetrators were chanting “Down with USA” and “Death to America”? And he was already responsible for hundreds of American deaths and more attacks were planned. Do you really think diplomacy could work with people like these?
 
My grandmother is a survivor of the Korean War. Never again.
Her stories of war are absolutely horrific.

I’m going to pray the rosary for this today.
 
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