"We must do everything possible"-'No more war'

[OneSheep]

I don’t understand what we are to do with them.

We negotiate with them.

Trump said he is open yet they always refuse.

I found nothing on the net that said Trump, or the state dept, was willing to negotiate with them.

Their intentions are anything far from well.

They want to protect the Shia population. That is good intent.

They and the U.S offered many times to negotiate but Iran always said NO.

With Trump, this is the opposite of the truth. The US had a deal with Iran, and rather than renegotiating something better, Trump pulled out. It was very difficult to make the deal, and the Trump administration made an enormous error in pulling out. Then, instead of negotiating, he started sanctions, another huge error.

I prefer if this can be sorted out without war, actually.

That’s great! If we can get the parties to talk, then war can be averted. We can pray for this.

America has done

America attacked a sovereign nation, Iraq, under the pretense of destroying weapons of mass destruction. It was false. As a result, the Shia came to dominate and persecuted the Sunni, ISIS was formed, and many, many mosques were bombed. Thousands of civilians died. We have to take responsibility for this.

But they always lie and keep breaking promises every time you even get them to the table in the first place.

They were complying with the nuclear agreement.

All we can do is pray. God’s will is God’s will. Let’s hope there’s no war, and that they can be stopped peacefully.

We can urge the US government to resolve the situation diplomatically. John Bolton, who’s testimony can either keep Trump in office or persuade the Senate to dump him, wanted the US to unilaterally bomb Iran for years. John Bolton basically works for AIPAC. I believe Trump is doing the offenses in part to make Bolton and AIPAC happy. If AIPAC is happy with Trump, our Senate will keep him in office.

 

[LebaneseCatbolic]

The problem is Hezbollah wants all of Lebanon to be Shia’a. They want to further subdue Christians by changing parliament from 1:1 Christian to muslim to 1:1:1 Shia Sunni Christian. Also beating up anti-Hezbollah Shia protesters doesn’t seem like protection as it does control.

The big problem is neither Iran or Trump are really trustworthy. The assassination of Suleiman was Justified though, to protect many more human lives from his terrors and plans, and Iran backed down. You can have your own opinion, and that is fine with me, We are all different. As long as we hope for Peace in the end, and Iran to back off from the middle east, and leave Lebanon free. Just as the Lebanese people are demanding from them.

 

[LebaneseCatbolic]

By the way, If it can be solved Diplomatically, that would be far preferable. If we do go to war with Iran, I hope to see no Nuclear bombs or attacks on Civilians, though that would be likely unfortunately.
God Bless.

 

[AlNg]

This man who was killed was working for Satan.

He was? It is difficult to see how he was working for Satan because he was instrumental in providing help to the Kurds against Isis in several areas such as for example, the Battle of Amirli. And of course, there were the villages of Jalawla and Saadia where Soleimani helped the Kurds again to push out Isis. I am somewhat surprised to know that Satan, who you say he worked for, would want to help the Kurds to defeat Isis?

 

[otjm]

The United States as a whole seems to exhibit a lack of reality and a blind belief that if we are just nicey-nicey, everyone else will be nicey-nicey.

Folks, we are at war with Iran. We have been at war with Iran for 40 years - longer than some people reading this thread have been alive.

Iran does not give a rotten fig about the international rules of war, and has been at it with us since the overthrow of the Shah. They are a theocracy based on a conservative to arch conservative reading of the Koran, and they are just about completely opaque to the Western World in terms of any realistic grasp of their thought process, motivation, or end game.

They are the funding and guiding force behind Hezbollah and Hamas, and while their primary target seems to be Israel, they have had a hand in terrorism in Syria and Saudi Arabia (anybody remember the Khobar Tower bombing?) and numerous other locations. It is the only country of which I am aware, which constantly publicly chants “Death to America” and which refers to America as the “Great Satan”.

It would appear that the only way any form of relationship with Iran will improve will be if the theocratic form of government is overthrown, and the chance for that appear between slim and none.

What is possible is that we will go back to a low grade form of warfare, with Iran making periodic attacks similar to past attacks; they may be directly against the US (there appear to be known sleeper cells in the US), against US members outside the US (embassy, military, etc) and US allies.

And if anyone wants a conspiracy theory, the CIA and Iran agreed to the takeout of Soleimani on the alleged grounds that he was becoming too powerful and out of control of the Iranian government, with the retaliatory strike by Iran a “show of force” but intentional targeting failure. Which does not address the possibility that Iran shot down the plane.

No more war? I don’t know anyone who is realistic of the cost - both in lives lost, lives wounded and dollars who wants a full-blown war with Iran. But the US is not the aggressor over the last 40 years; it is not our call. And as we have seen, there has been an escalation of actions by Iran over the last year or two. They don’t like the sanctions? We don’t like the idea of one more country with nuclear weapons (and Israel seems to be of a similar mind). Not to mention that North Korea appears to have been one of the major providers of research and development.

 

[otjm]

You forget the law of nations: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It makes for strange bedfellows.

 

[otjm]

With Trump, this is the opposite of the truth. The US had a deal with Iran, and rather than renegotiating something better, Trump pulled out. It was very difficult to make the deal, and the Trump administration made an enormous error in pulling out. Then, instead of negotiating, he started sanctions, another huge error.

The deal was beyond a joke. It was a deal Quisling would have been proud of.

 

[AlNg]

You forget the law of nations: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It makes for strange bedfellows.

I reject the idea that Satan was behind the push to save the Kurds from ISIS.

 

[Theo520]

Over 20 years I’d expect everyone to change their view on the middle east,
A lot has happened

 

[Divine3]

And what might our views have been about the middle east 20 years ago? How much knowledge in the USA (not Europe) would the average citizen have about the middle east and the Muslims there as well as the Christians?

 

[Theo520]

I think you are agreeing with me, that 20 yrs of involvement and increased press coverage would change or even flip peoples opinions of what is the right engagement strategy.

 

[OneSheep]

The assassination got Iran to back down.

Well, we don’t know that. What we do know is that now there is much more resentment about our troops being over there. Now our troops are in more danger, rather than serving a function to stabilize violence. Now it is seen again that the US is an instigator of violence.

Please try to imagine what it would be like for a foreign country to fly a drone over the US. Now imagine that the drone strikes our CIA director.

Even though he was immediately replaced, they feared to engage in any serious retaliation. Why? Because President Trump made it clear that we can and will hit back.

But this is the problem: ye reap what ye sow. All terror has to do with doing violence to put fear into people. One may see it as “just” violence, for a “just” end, but everyone who does violence thinks that their own actions are just, even those of Daesh. We have sown more discord, and we did it against the tenets of just war doctrine.

You error because you do not recognize any distinction between a single assassination and a full-scale war.

If the assassination was not an act of war, then it was murder.

When dealing with an irrational enemy who has committed acts of war, you have to knock some sense into them before negotiation is possible.

I think you must be forgetting that the whole problem started when the US invaded Iraq. That action was condemned by Pope Saint John Paul II and the Bishops of the US. “Irrational” is a projected idea. Especially given that now the people of Iraq want the US out, the assassination is seen around the world as incredibly foolish and irrational. I heard one pundit describe the Russian and Chinese leadership calling for peace but “laughing in their hands”.

you have to knock some sense into them before negotiation is possible.

This is the rationalization for injustice. “Treat them as less than human, because violence is the only language they understand”. The person who says such a thing sows the same sentiment. The enemy comes to think the same of us, especially since our administration refuses to negotiate with Iran.

They killed one of ours, so we killed one of theirs so that we could make peace.

I think you must have forgotten about the 25 or so we killed before the assassination, the bombings we did all over Iraq that preceded the protest at the embassy.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Revenge is not what Jesus taught.

 

[OneSheep]

The deal was beyond a joke.

The deal effectively kept Iran from developing a nuclear weapon, and was a first step toward better relations, which Israel despised. It was not perfect, but it was a great start.

What did you not like about it?

 

[Balto1]

The deal was beyond a joke.

The deal was a landmark diplomatic achievement and basically the only Obama administration foreign policy plank that was good. Now that it’s gone and the U.S. has started assassinating Iranian officials it is in Iran’s rational best interest to develop a nuclear weapons capacity as quickly as possible.

 

[Divine3]

war is a punishment for sin…period. And to keep our troops in the middle east when Iraq wants us out is like a Roman occupation…but we all know what happened to Rome after it became morally decadent. The YouTube of Bishop Sheen

given by poster. says it all. We need to pray, fast and pray for our own conversion as well as for the muslims.

 

[OneSheep]

I say to all: There is still time to negotiate; there is still room for peace, it is never too late to come to an understanding and to continue discussions.

Sadly, given the latest revelation, it sounds like the negotiation needed to take place between Donald Trump and the senators he wished to appease.

Trump Conducted Iran Strike to Satisfy GOP Senators Before Impeachment: Report - Business Insider

I don’t understand what is going on. The original story was run by the WSJ, owned by Rupert Murdoch, who is practically the person responsible for creating the conditions that put Trump into office.

If anyone can shed some light on this, I’m all ears.

 

[Theo520]

war is a punishment for sin…period. And to keep our troops in the middle east when this country wants us out is like Roman occupation…but we all know what happened to Rome after it became morally decadent. The YouTube of Bishop Sheen

by poster. says it all. We. need to pray, fast and pray for our own conversion as well as for the muslims.

You are moving the goal posts, not polite.

Sure, I too want our troops to depart from countries where they are not wanted… For Iraq, we need to wait a bit, for the dust to settle since Iran was also behind the vote.

 

[otjm]

Right. We gave how much money to buy the Iranian’s favor and they turned that money right around to fund further terror through Hezbollah and Hamas.

And absolutely, it is in the best interest of the world to have a regime which carries on terror activities with other Muslim countries, has sworn openly and for decades to destroy Israel, and has been working on perfecting ICBMs, leaving at least a significant part of the globe within their reach with nuclear capabilities should they perfect both the delivery systems and the bombs.

You may call it an assassination because you like the word. He was an enemy combatant in a territory of combat, meeting with enemy combatants. Our action was no different than striking the plane which was carrying Admiral Yamamoto during World War Two. You have been listening to the talking heads of the liberal press who will do anything to combat the President; they were absolutely amazing in their dead silence when Obama ordered the strike which killed Osama bin Laden. If you want to characterize the killing of of Soleimani as an assassination then you need to accuse Obama of assassinating the head of the terrorist organization Osama ran.

The liberal press has gone out of its way to praise Soleimani as a great and wonderful leader in Iran. They lie by omission, and the public which has the memory of not much more than the day before is ignorant of his true position in Iran - supporting their multitude of terrorists.

 

[Balto1]

If you want to characterize the killing of of Soleimani as an assassination then you need to accuse Obama of assassinating the head of the terrorist organization Osama ran.

I do characterize Obama’s murder of bin Laden as an assassination. For all your talk of the “liberal” press you should read the actual leftist press which loudly condemned that attack and Obama as a war criminal.

 

[Divine3]

Yes, did move the goal post. Twenty years of being in the middle east after 9/11 and (haven’t a clue if we have been there longer because of business deals etc) doesn’t mean we truly understand their culture. And without understanding a culture there is usually very poor communication or negotiations and kept promises.