Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

[Arkansan]

Why do I suspect that “uncharitable attitudes” refers to holding opinions you disagree with and/or not bothering to dress up honest analysis of problems in the world?

 

[Canvas]

Communism, as in Bolshevist, agressively atheistic movements that ban religious practices or work against the Church were banned for Catholics in 1949 by Pius XII. This does not include modern labor or social democratic parties that respect freedom of religion. You must be careful to be accurate in what you claim is Church doctrine.

 

[Canvas]

Suspect whatever you want. Read the quotes from early Christians or more modern Church documents addressing poverty and social justice issues.

 

[KJW5551]

Socialism has been repeatedly rejected by the Church: first by Pope Leo XIII, then by Pope Pius XI, then by Pope JPII.

It is a fact that the Church rejects socialism as an economic system.

 

[TheOldColonel]

Would you possibly be so kind as to moderate the flow of these assets from the rich to the poor? The rich could certainly pay you up to $33,000 per year if you’d take on the extra work. That is… until all of their money is gone. Then, you’d have to find another job.

 

[Canvas]

No, the Church has rejected ideas associated with socialism, particularly the extreme forms of Marxist socialism that reject all private property. John Paul II specifically rejected the materialistic outlook of many socialists. But not all “socialism” is the same. The Church has also condemned Capitalism’s flaws. In fact, in recent decades, multiple Popes have published encyclicals that are scathing in their critique of capitalism and globalism. Indeed, many of the same social justice principles of the Church are similar to the economic platforms of pro labor parties.

 

[Theo520]

I remember a homily on that Parable. The Priest didn’t talk about literal money. He talked about how each person has special talents of their own and to waste them is to waste the gifts God gave you.

Yes, but the net result is some will earn more than others in whatever is their chosen field.
Christ taught caring for the indigent, not forced redistribtuion

 

[Canvas]

“Forced redistribution” is a nice way many American Christians use to avoid realities of the modern world about the effective ways to address some social welfare issues. Some forms of social welfare do in fact need more than just charitable contributions. Like medical care. Only in America, out of all the wealthy countries, do people with cancer have to have “go fund me” drives. America is one of the 4, out of over 180 countries in the UN that does not have some form of paid maternal or family leave guaranteed by law. We are in the company of Papua New Guinea and Swaziland in this regard.

 

[Theo520]

Actually, on CAF i have seen many posters who express quite uncharitable attitudes towards the poor. How much they give to charitable causes is not known to me and varies by individual. But the way some posters disregard the poor, the sick, the immigrant etc. , at least in their online postings, seems to me to be more influenced by American politics and the materialistic “greed is good” culture than Catholic teaching, or the Christian tradition.

When I see this i tend to find people are looking at the posts through SJW filters, and not really understanding the positions people make.

I’m dead set against enabling illegal immigration, primarily because most are economic migrants and they do serious harm to our poor and minorities that are citizens. Our priority needs to be full employment for our citizens before we import additional workers. Thus I’m delighted that illegal immigration is down and our unemployment numbers for minorities and especially black teens are at record lows. A black teen with a job has significantly better prospects for his future than one who is unemployed.

The poor in Mexico are the primary responsibility of the Mexican Govt and the people in mexico with resources. Mexico has enough resources to take care of their poor, and they are 80% Catholic so they should have both the will and the means.

Don’t confuse helping legit refugees and asylum seekers with economic migrants.

This is in line with Church teachings on subsidiarity,

 

[Canvas]

I am not going to thought police you.

 

[Theo520]

I am not going to thought police you.

I’m fine with debating what I believe, instead of your strawman.

Church teachings on subsidiarity indicate we help our poor and help Mexico help their poor, which is very different than assuming the responsibility for them. I will gladly provide assistance when the Catholic church in Mexico asks for help

 

[Arkansan]

Suspect whatever you want. Read the quotes from early Christians or more modern Church documents addressing poverty and social justice issues.

I would prefer to read the “many posters who express quite uncharitable attitudes towards the poor”, which you alleged to exist.

That you are deflecting when asked to back up your claim, confirms my suspicion that it is false.

 

[Canvas]

Okay. Do what your conscience tells you is the best way to help.

 

[Shakuhachi]

Wealth is also acquired through greed and exploitation. But primarily through intelligence, which not everyone is born with, opportunity which not everyone has, and eduction, which again is not available to everyone in equal degree. The game is rigged in favor of those born into advantage.

 

[Arkansan]

The game is rigged in favor of those born into advantage.

Yes, life is unfair.

 

[Canvas]

I cant go through every thread to find every instance i felt someone was being uncharitable in their comments. But i have seen comments that i believed were in that category. I am not going to name or quote posters, nor scour the forum for examples. This was a personal observation about some posts i have come across. And to be honest, i dont think you care if posters expressed hostility to the welfare of the poor. Even if i quoted 100 posts, you would still be asking for more proof. You just dont agree with my position or it has made you uncomfortable

 

[Arkansan]

You could specify what kind of statements you consider to be uncharitable.

 

[Theo520]

Okay. Do what your conscience tells you is the best way to help.

I do, I work with ‘at risk’ foster teens in my community, the kids that can’t find a permanent home.
In turn I expect Catholics in Mexico are working with their unprivileged citizens.

 

[Canvas]

Generalizations about idleness, irresponsibility, expecting handouts, if they have something nice they could have better used that money to pay for their heart surgery, etc. Too much variety. But it really doesnt matter. It was my opinion. To change the subject, do you live anywhere near Jonesboro? I was there last year. Are you familiar with the small town of Monette?

 

[Arkansan]

Generalizations about idleness, irresponsibility, expecting handouts

So, in other words, people were discussing problems that exist in the real world, and that offended you.

if they have something nice they could have better used that money to pay for their heart surgery

I’m going to need to see a quote on this.