Well I guess the Rumors are True(Traditional Mass Back)

  • Thread starter Thread starter lsusportsfan
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

lsusportsfan

Guest
In an interview for the cover story (pages 56-60) of Le Figaro Magazine (weekly magazine of the French national daily Le Figaro), published today (not yet available on the newspaper’s website); excerpt:
Click to expand...
Is a Decree widening the possibility of celebrating the Latin Mass according to the rite from before Vatican II (the so-called Mass of Saint Pius V) still expected?
Click to expand...
Cardinal Bertone: The merit of the conciliar liturgical reform is intact. But both [for reasons of] not losing the great liturgical heritage left by Saint Pius V and for granting the wish of those faithful who desire to attend Masses according to this rite, within the framework of the Missal published in 1962 by Pope John XXIII, with its own calendar, there is no valid reason not to grant to every priest in the world* the right to celebrate according to this form. The authorization of the Supreme Pontiff would evidently preserve the validity of the rite of Paul VI. The publication of the motu proprio which specifies this authorisation will take place, but it will be the pope himself who will explain his motivations and the framework of his decision. The Sovereign Pontiff will personally explain his vision for the use of the ancient Missal to the Christian people, and particularly to the Bishops.
*au prêtre du monde entier: literally, to the priest of the whole world
Click to expand...
catholicapologeticsofamerica.blogspot.com/2007/03/breaking-news-holy-fathers-secretary-of.html

Apologetic wise I guess I am going to have to study up on the Tridentine Mass because of questions that will come up

I
That seems to be a reliable source
 
For those who do not know, Cdl Bertone is Pope Benedict’s Secretary of State.
 
Does this mean when it is back, we have both Latin Mass and NO mass or all must be in Latin?
 
MikeDunphy said:
It means we have both, but mostly NO for the forseeable future.
Click to expand...
Thank you, but I am confused a little bit. We have already had some churches celebrating the Latin Mass. How come the discussion is still going on?
 
water said:
Does this mean when it is back, we have both Latin Mass and NO mass or all must be in Latin?
Click to expand...
The vernacular Mass will still exist, but I can see a greater use of Latin (both as the primary language of the liturgy, and for the common prayers of the vernacular liturgy)

That would be more closely in line with the Vatican II documents
 
Uxor said:
Break out the Champagne!👍
Click to expand...
I’m buying a bottle this afternoon. But I’m waiting until we hear from someone that ranks a little higher than a mere cardinal, before we open it. 😉

Happy days.

God bless il papa.
 
Brendan said:
The vernacular Mass will still exist, but I can see a greater use of Latin (both as the primary language of the liturgy, and for the common prayers of the vernacular liturgy)

That would be more closely in line with the Vatican II documents
Click to expand...
I hope both Masses will use the same readings and that way, no matter which Mass you attend, you know you will hear the same Readings.
 
MikeDunphy said:
I’m buying a bottle this afternoon. But I’m waiting until we hear from someone that ranks a little higher than a mere cardinal, before we open it. 😉

Happy days.

God bless il papa.
Click to expand...
Happy days indeed! :whistle:

Happy days are here again,
The skies above are clear again
Let us sing a song of cheer again –
Happy days are here again

All together, shout it now –
There’s no one who can doubt it now
So let’s tell the world about it now
Happy days are here again

Your cares and troubles are gone –
There’ll be no more from now on!

Happy days are here again,
The skies above are clear again
Let us sing a song of cheer again –
Happy days are here again
 
water said:
Thank you, but I am confused a little bit. We have already had some churches celebrating the Latin Mass. How come the discussion is still going on?
Click to expand...
Pope John Paul II said that the traditional Mass should be widely and generously available, but that left a lot of leeway for the bishops.

In my own diocese, for example, the Traditional Mass is permitted in one parish for one hour once per month. Last time I went there, the doors were locked. Apparently, Pope Benedict has decided that some bishops were not being very “wide and generous” in their permissions.

People anticipate that Pope will release a document that will make it easier for priests to celebrate the Traditional Mass if they want to, but after 37 years, most priests don’t know the old Mass, and it is natural to expect that most will want to stick with what they know.
 
MikeDunphy said:
Pope John Paul II said that the traditional Mass should be widely and generously available, but that left a lot of leeway for the bishops.

In my own diocese, for example, the Traditional Mass is permitted in one parish for one hour once per month. Last time I went there, the doors were locked. Apparently, Pope Benedict has decided that some bishops were not being very “wide and generous” in their permissions.

People anticipate that Pope will release a document that will make it easier for priests to celebrate the Traditional Mass if they want to, but after 37 years, most priests don’t know the old Mass, and it is natural to expect that most will want to stick with what they know.
Click to expand...
Still, this is a recovered treasure of the Church and we should be happy that it is restored.
 
It doesn’t mean we’ll see much of a return to the liturgical form of the Tridentine Mass in most areas; many of the people I know don’t want it. What it does mean is implicit: It will no longer be suppressed, but, subject to episcopal authority, priestly whim, and demand, will probably return to use, and hopefully help eliminate the scism of the Lefebvrist heresy by giving the people (and priests) a place to function in the tridentine ritual within the church in union. (Said heresy was denial of Papal Authority.)

Further, the Pope’s recent statements have indicated he wishes more Latin to be used to make the Post-Vatican II Liturgy less localized and more acceptable; I fear it will have opposite effect: to make the liturgy inaccessible.

Note that I’ve no recollection of the Tridentine liturgy; it was being abolished in common use during my youth. I do have recollections of the Dominican Rite in Latin and English.

Just a reminder: The liturgy was changed by the council because it no longer matched the theology.

Oh, and as for unified readings: Well, given that the Eastern Uniate churches, including the latin-bishop-subject Italo-Byzantine and Russian, have a separate reading and festal calendar, I wouldn’t count on it. I suspect we’ll see some latin masses by the Paul VI missal, some by the P-VIIC Missal, and some with the Paul VI missal but the P-VIIC festal and lectionary schedule. (The reverse is possible, but not likely.)

Yes, I think it a good thing.
 
Aramis said:
It doesn’t mean we’ll see much of a return to the liturgical form of the Tridentine Mass in most areas; many of the people I know don’t want it.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately that is true. Unfortunately for them, though, they need to realize the Church is not a democracy. But don’t ask me what it is exactly when your local bishop seems to have more power than the Pope.
Just a reminder: The liturgy was changed by the council because it no longer matched the theology.
Click to expand...
This I didn’t know. So if it’s not Catholic theology, what is it?
Yes, I think it a good thing.
Click to expand...
At this point, I don’t think it will hurt. But I’ll skip the champaign, I’m still a bit cynical and skeptical. Especially if the vernacular NO continues to be shoved down my throat.
 
Aramis said:
Just a reminder: The liturgy was changed by the council because it no longer matched the theology.

Oh, and as for unified readings: Well, given that the Eastern Uniate churches, including the latin-bishop-subject Italo-Byzantine and Russian, have a separate reading and festal calendar, I wouldn’t count on it. I suspect we’ll see some latin masses by the Paul VI missal, some by the P-VIIC Missal, and some with the Paul VI missal but the P-VIIC festal and lectionary schedule. (The reverse is possible, but not likely.)
Click to expand...
BobP123 said:
This I didn’t know. So if it’s not Catholic theology, what is it?
Click to expand...
You did not know this because it is untrue.
Aramis said:
Oh, and as for unified readings: Well, given that the Eastern Uniate churches, including the latin-bishop-subject Italo-Byzantine and Russian, have a separate reading and festal calendar, I wouldn’t count on it. I suspect we’ll see some latin masses by the Paul VI missal, some by the P-VIIC Missal, and some with the Paul VI missal but the P-VIIC festal and lectionary schedule. (The reverse is possible, but not likely.)
Click to expand...
You are comparing apples and oranges here.

Each of the Eastern Catholic Churches is a separate Church, hence the different calendar and lectonary (which there is not really much difference between the Byzantine Catholic Churches there) whereas the Latin Church is one Church and should, IMHO, have one calendar and lectonary no matter which rite of that Church one attends.
 
Aramis said:
It doesn’t mean we’ll see much of a return to the liturgical form of the Tridentine Mass in most areas; many of the people I know don’t want it. What it does mean is implicit: It will no longer be suppressed, but, subject to episcopal authority, priestly whim, and demand, will probably return to use, and hopefully help eliminate the scism of the Lefebvrist heresy by giving the people (and priests) a place to function in the tridentine ritual within the church in union. (Said heresy was denial of Papal Authority.)

Further, the Pope’s recent statements have indicated he wishes more Latin to be used to make the Post-Vatican II Liturgy less localized and more acceptable; I fear it will have opposite effect: to make the liturgy inaccessible.

Note that I’ve no recollection of the Tridentine liturgy; it was being abolished in common use during my youth. I do have recollections of the Dominican Rite in Latin and English.

Just a reminder: The liturgy was changed by the council because it no longer matched the theology.

Oh, and as for unified readings: Well, given that the Eastern Uniate churches, including the latin-bishop-subject Italo-Byzantine and Russian, have a separate reading and festal calendar, I wouldn’t count on it. I suspect we’ll see some latin masses by the Paul VI missal, some by the P-VIIC Missal, and some with the Paul VI missal but the P-VIIC festal and lectionary schedule. (The reverse is possible, but not likely.)

Yes, I think it a good thing.
Click to expand...
The liturgy was changed by the council because it no longer matched the theology? What does that mean?
 
MikeDunphy said:
Pope John Paul II said that the traditional Mass should be widely and generously available, but that left a lot of leeway for the bishops.

In my own diocese, for example, the Traditional Mass is permitted in one parish for one hour once per month. Last time I went there, the doors were locked. Apparently, Pope Benedict has decided that some bishops were not being very “wide and generous” in their permissions.

People anticipate that Pope will release a document that will make it easier for priests to celebrate the Traditional Mass if they want to, but after 37 years, most priests don’t know the old Mass, and it is natural to expect that most will want to stick with what they know.
Click to expand...
Ah, thank you Mike for explaining this to me. I understand now.
In Austin, TX, at the Sacred Heart church, there is TLM every Sunday. I haven’t been to one yet, but will make time for it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top