Were is Christ's humility in the Church today?

[deb1]

the Nazarene had a treasurer amongst his apostles. his name----------judas. that, says it all. that betrayal symbolizes everything that is wrong with our beloved church.

truth being, had judas asked the Nazarene for forgiveness, instead of taking his own life, it would have been granted. that, is our lesson to learn.

love our church. love our priests. and if need be, forgive our priests.

Judas was stealing from the others. So, the only thing that we can gather from the fact that he was the treasurer is that it is wrong to steal. Being a treasurer or having money in itself is not evil.

 

[Lou_F]

I don’t agree that it would be more fitting to sell family heirlooms in order to help the poor. From my perspective, this sounds nothing more than the same criticism Judas gave to Mary for using very costly perfume to anoint the feet of Jesus. (cf. John 13:3ff). Could this have been sold and given to the poor? Sure. But it was more fitting to use it instead for the glory of God. We will always have the poor with us. We can surely help the poor without selling priceless family heirlooms gifted to the Church for the glory of God.

For instance, I have a Rosary from my great grandfather. I could sell it and give the money to charity. However, while that Rosary is priceless to me, the resources it would provide would be expended in moments. If it is the poor that I want to help, I should instead work to aid the poor by more lasting efforts.

As for help with your faith. I recommend you ask God for help with that.

I couldn’t agree more. Plus, instead of the Church selling their historical art to give to the poor, How about the rich not buying it in the 1st place and give the money they would use to do so, straight to the poor themselves? Why wait for the Church to do their generosity for them? “I’ll give if I get something in return” - doesn’t sound like generosity to me.

 

[Scottgun]

Itsjustdave, if you look into the face and eyes of Benedict XVI you will see the humility of Christ. You arre alooking in thge wrong places. You are alooking at the “judases”
GraceAngel

I think you misunderstand Dave’s and my posts. We are responding to the charge that ornate churches=lack of humility. So yes, we can see humility in Benedict XVI, but can also acknowledge that the Church is not lacking in humility when the places are dressed up because it is like the woman pouring expensive oil on Our Lord or the preparation of the upper room.

 

[joseph_virgen]

sometimes its so obvious that it hurts. the point that judas betrayed the Nazarene as being a symbol with what is wrong with our church is without question.

here was judas, an original apostle, learning from the Son of Man and throwing everything away. at the top of my head i can honestly say that judas broke at least half of God’s commandments. i’m sure others can make the case for more.

in truth, seldom does a single action require a single thought.

 

[Grace_Angel]

I think you misunderstand Dave’s and my posts. We are responding to the charge that ornate churches=lack of humility. So yes, we can see humility in Benedict XVI, but can also acknowledge that the Church is not lacking in humility when the places are dressed up because it is like the woman pouring expensive oil on Our Lord or the preparation of the upper room.

Sorry Scottgun, I dont see it like you or Dave, when I see a beautiful church, ornately dressed with the very bestest of chalices, etc., I see that we give to God the very best that we have. We give to God, the beauty (which of course He gave to us first) but we return it with love. Indeed the very thing I LOVE about St. Peters, is the beauty there. Yes we human beings give him our bestest that we know how.
Sorry I dont agree with you at all. I wish I had billions to do much better still.
Bye
GraceAngel.

 

[deb1]

Sorry Scottgun, I dont see it like you or Dave, when I see a beautiful church, ornately dressed with the very bestest of chalices, etc., I see that we give to God the very best that we have. We give to God, the beauty (which of course He gave to us first) but we return it with love. Indeed the very thing I LOVE about St. Peters, is the beauty there. Yes we human beings give him our bestest that we know how.
Sorry I dont agree with you at all. I wish I had billions to do much better still.
Bye
GraceAngel.

It sounds like you and Scottgun are agreeing. WHat the heck am I missing.

 

[Brendan]

Our wonderful Catholic Church is probably the most gving of all institutions to the poor, eg Peter’s pence every year amounts to millions of donations to the poor alone.

Yet I really wonder why the Church does not sell all the land/works of art/shares etc etc that it really does not need to support and develop the body of Christ?

The first flaw in your argument is the premise that the works of art do not build up the Body of Christ. They do, that is why they were commissioned in the first place.

I would ask you to read to areas of the Bible.

Read Exodus 25 and all the gold that God commanded be used for the Ark of the Covenant, and even for the accompaning lamp stands. The lamp stands alone were to be 75 lbs of gold EACH.

Next, read Exodus 26, were God commands the tent (tabernacle) for the ark to be build. Using the finest linen emproidered with angels. Rare woods overlaid with gold for the frame, with gold hooks and rings to connect it all together. Even the bases that the frame rests on are to be silver.

Why did not God wish that all this wealth be used to provide for the poor among the Jews? Why did God Himself command that this wealth be spent on His Ark?

Now read the story of the woman with the alabaster jar ( Matt 26 , Mark 14, Luke 7). Do not the disciples criticise the woman for wasting a years wages on expensive perfume and fancy pottery. And Christ chastises not the woman, but the disciples.

It is a GOOD thing to spend money on the greater glory of Christ.

And thus, the Vatican art collection best serves the Body of Christ exactly where it is.

Read

 

[Scottgun]

Sorry Scottgun, I dont see it like you or Dave, when I see a beautiful church, ornately dressed with the very bestest of chalices, etc., I see that we give to God the very best that we have. We give to God, the beauty (which of course He gave to us first) but we return it with love. Indeed the very thing I LOVE about St. Peters, is the beauty there. Yes we human beings give him our bestest that we know how.
Sorry I dont agree with you at all. I wish I had billions to do much better still.
Bye
GraceAngel.

I’ll second deb1’s question because we are actually in complete agreement, and you, Dave and I are in complete agreement with JPII in the encylical I linked. Beautiful Churches: I’m ferin it. I ain’t agin it.

 

[catherineajt]

The church Christ began is perfect. People are not perfect. There is money mismanagement in all churches–currently the Orthodox Church in America is dealing with a decade-long financial scandal. Does that make the faith less valid? No.

There are humble, giving people in the Catholic Church. In my small Ruthenian parish, we have an iconostasis that I think is beautiful–is it vanity? No, it is a visible prayer to the glory of God.

 

[josethekke]

Our wonderful Catholic Church is probably the most gving of all institutions to the poor, eg Peter’s pence every year amounts to millions of donations to the poor alone.

Yet I really wonder why the Church does not sell all the land/works of art/shares etc etc that it really does not need to support and develop the body of Christ? I do not accept the view that the land/art were largely donations to the Church and the Church must safeguard their future out of respect to the donators, after all millions of human lives could be saved and/or converted by the proceeds of their sale - that is much more important in my view.

I live in a Diocese where retiring Priests are being bought £200,000 ($391,000) penthouse waterfront flats whilst the Parishes are being asked to raise £4 million ($7.8 million) for envagelisation, what is going on in our Church?

We have also learned of a senior local Monsignor recently retired who has been in a sexual relationship with a married woman for 18 years - he was found out by the Press and the Bishop stripped him from holding Mass. He is now living with a woman in a £300,000 house, yet continues to have access to £200,000 penthouse suite. Another Priest I know has recently bought a £10,000 kitchen - all the time there are good Catholic old people struggling to heat their homes.

All this is really shaking my Faith in my Church at both local and global levels, I write this post in the hope of someone being able to renew my shaken Faith.

I know these are the acts of proud men not God, but where is Christ’s humility in the Church today?

I believe Lord - help my unbelief!

Derek

I also have the same feelings.Even if the church Doesn’t sell its property it can practice simplicity Hefty donations are collecting from the laity most part of this is used to build the assets of the church and purchasing latest model of vehicles.Our bishops are travelling latest model costly vehicle.Our Lord has no material assets while living in this world.,and preached to increase your assets in heaven rather than in this world Now it is too late for the church to extend its arm to those do not have a dwelling and those who could not afford the treatment charge etc

 

[Wedgewood]

One Sunday, our parish priest gave us a lecture during the homily “that he did not take the vow of poverty”. People in the parish had been complaining about him redoing his living quarters.

I do believe the Church (priests, bishops whoever is responsible)will be held accountable for all their wrongdoing from our sacrifices. I do believe their punishment will be severe.

What gives me peace, I say at every Mass:

“May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of his name, for our good, and the good of all his church.”

Amen

 

[po18guy]

Our wonderful Catholic Church is probably the most gving of all institutions to the poor, eg Peter’s pence every year amounts to millions of donations to the poor alone. Yet I really wonder why the Church does not sell all the land/works of art/shares etc etc that it really does not need to support and develop the body of Christ? I live in a Diocese where retiring Priests are being bought £200,000 ($391,000) penthouse waterfront flats whilst the Parishes are being asked to raise £4 million ($7.8 million) for envagelisation, what is going on in our Church? All this is really shaking my Faith in my Church at both local and global levels, I write this post in the hope of someone being able to renew my shaken Faith. Derek

Derek, this does absolutely nothing to the truth that the Church teaches. Each of these men are answerable to God for their sin. We can but do for our leaders what Christ did for His followers: withdraw to a distance and pray for them. They cannot resist the power of the Holy Spirit. Recall also the words of Christ Himself:

Mark 14:3-7 While he was in Bethany, reclining at the table in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, a woman came with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, made of pure nard. She broke the jar and poured the perfume on his head. Some of those present were saying indignantly to one another, “Why this waste of perfume? It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.” And they rebuked her harshly. “Leave her alone,” said Jesus. “Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me”.

Christ’s peace.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

I think you misunderstand Dave’s and my posts. …

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Scott,

I agree…I think a strange mis-reading is going on here. I have no idea what was meant by this: "*You arre alooking in thge wrong places. You are alooking at the “judases”

*Very bizarre. :shrug:Here’s where I’ve been looking, and I don’t see Judas here…

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I see no better use of precious metals than the glorification of God.

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[Grace_Angel]

I’ll second deb1’s question because we are actually in complete agreement, and you, Dave and I are in complete agreement with JPII in the encylical I linked. Beautiful Churches: I’m ferin it. I ain’t agin it.

Scottgun I apologise sincerely for misreading. Glad we agree.
GraceAngel

 

[Brendan]

I Our bishops are travelling latest model costly vehicle.

What the heck are you talking about.

I’ve seen Cardinal Maida’s (Archbishop of Detroit) car when it’s parked down at the Seminary. It’s a 5 year old Ford Taurus.

Not exactly the latest model or a the most costly vehicle.

It is a standard, run of the mill, plain jane, vanilla, sedan that certainly looks like it’s see better days.