WH:No Constitutional Rights Issue in Forcing Catholics to Act Against Their Faith

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Publisher said:
Then don’t offer to buy me a sandwich at the local deli with no stipulations until I order it…then tell me to “buy it” myself…🙂
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This assumes a voluntary transaction. The President is FORCING me to buy you a sandwich with this mandate.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
This assumes a voluntary transaction. The President is FORCING me to buy you a sandwich with this mandate.
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Absolutely. You have no right to have me buy you a sandwich. But, as a vegan/Hindu/whatever, I have the right not to be forced to buy you a beef sandwich
 
PaulinVA said:
I work for an Indian-owned company. When they provide lunch for us (at their own initiative), it is frequently Indian food and sometimes there iareonly vegetarian dishes.

Am I being forced to conform to the Hindu religion by not eating meat that day? No, the absence of meat does not make me a Hindu for a day.
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Do they require you to be vegetarian at home? No they don’t. No one is practicing birth control in the workplace. (Unless you are running a brothel - which is a bigger problem 😉 )
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
This assumes a voluntary transaction. The President is FORCING me to buy you a sandwich with this mandate.
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These are separate issues. One, providing heath care. Two, the nature of the health care.

Ultimately it is voluntary because you chose to own a business. No one is forcing you to.
 
jonfawkes said:
Do they require you to be vegetarian at home? No they don’t. No one is practicing birth control in the workplace. (Unless you are running a brothel - which is a bigger problem 😉 )
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You are totally missing the point. Forcing me to provide you with birth control to use at home or the office is against my religion and I shouldn’t 'be forced to provide it. You can get it on your own if you want it. I am not preventing you from having it, I am just not paying for it, because my religion tells m it is sinful to pay for birth control for you. Your religion does not say that you have to be provided birth control free of charge by your employer.

And, to your #120, below, you are discriminating against Catholics if they are not allowed to be business owners. That is a basic American right.
 
jonfawkes said:
These are separate issues. One, providing heath care. Two, the nature of the health care.

Ultimately it is voluntary because you chose to own a business. No one is forcing you to.
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Contraception, as it has been demonstrated, is not health care. Pregnancy is not a disease that requires prevention and treatment.
 
PaulinVA said:
You are totally missing the point. Forcing me to provide you with birth control to use at home or the office is against my religion and I shouldn’t 'be forced to provide it. You can get it on your own if you want it. I am not preventing you from having it, I am just not paying for it, because my religion tells m it is sinful to pay for birth control for you. Your religion does not say that you have to be provided birth control free of charge by your employer.

And, to your #120, below, you are discriminating against Catholics if they are not allowed to be business owners. That is a basic American right.
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Again you are proving health care. Secular society has determined that birth control is part of health care. 🤷 You can disagree with it but it doesn’t prohibit you from practicing your religion.

Brothels are legal in Nevada - Catholics are free to own them but would they? Strip Clubs are legal in many states. Are Catholics barred from owning them - not by the State. They just wouldn’t.

It’s the reason usury was such a big deal. Christians wouldn’t do it other Christians. So they let the Jews handle it.
 
jonfawkes said:
How does it violate your practice of religion? Are Catholics required to own businesses? I missed that in the Catechism :rolleyes:

[BIBLEDRB]Mark 10:21[/BIBLEDRB]
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Remarkable! Of course the First Amendment applies to business owners as well as everyone else. It doesn’t make religious people into second class citizens who cannot own businesses! That is just a remarkable statement. The First Amendment protects each individuals religious freedom, including that of business owners.

If I go to work for an Amish business owner who doesn’t believe in insurace at all, he has the religious freedom of the First Amendment, not to buy it. The government cannot bully him into buying it.

If I work for a Jehovah’s Witness business owner whose insurance coverage does not cover blood transfusions because of his religious objections, he is protected by the First Amendment.

It’s my responsibility to buy appropriate coverage, not to force my employer to buy what is objectionable to him.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
This is backfiring for the administration and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Obama reverse the regulation followed by **Sebelious announcing her resignation so she can spend more time with her family.**Jim
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aaahhhhh…wishful thinking!
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
I don’t know. Keeping Sebellius in the public spotlight is probably the best place for her…well, for us to be able to keep tabs on her.
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Maybe - also if you get rid of one, someone worse might be waiting to take their place.
 
Here’s a short read I especially like that gets right to the point:
The left has succeeded in dismantling much of the American freedom tradition — through legislative, executive, and judicial assaults on the Constitution — all in the name of advancing a seductive form of equality that denies and seeks to neutralize human nature and leaves tyranny in its wake.
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Utopian leftists view the Constitution not as a structural safeguard for our liberties, but as an obstacle to their utopian goal of concentrating power in the central government to empower them to implement their grand vision. They only champion the Constitution as a matter of political expedience, when it serves their larger ends.
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newsmax.com/Limbaugh/Levin-Ameritopia-Liberal-utopian/2012/01/17/id/424392
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Tigg said:
Here’s a short read I especially like that gets right to the point:
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It is also irreversable short of violent overthrow of the current system of government or .,…move to a place that has not been infiltrated by big-government statist progressives.
 
Living in the UK, I pay taxes that directly pay for abortions as well as contraception I don’t like, wars I abhor and other atrocities.

I don’t think God will judge me for paying taxes required by law, and it isn’t my fault that England is not a Catholic country. The US is not a Catholic country either, and nobody gets to opt out of paying for things they disapprove of.

This is how society works, and how the least of us get the safety nets that the Daily Mail can disapprove of, so I don’t understand the anger about it. Surely it was ever so in a democracy? it simply isn’t possible that all religions can be accommodated in a fair and just society. Democracy and religion are mutually exclusive on this issue.

I will of course never use these services, and will never go to war, and will never go against God in my private life. My public life, I’m simply not in control of 100% of it. Kanye shrug.
 
saraih said:
Living in the UK, I pay taxes that directly pay for abortions as well as contraception I don’t like, wars I abhor and other atrocities.

I don’t think God will judge me for paying taxes required by law, and it isn’t my fault that England is not a Catholic country. The US is not a Catholic country either, and nobody gets to opt out of paying for things they disapprove of.

This is how society works, and how the least of us get the safety nets that the Daily Mail can disapprove of, so I don’t understand the anger about it. Surely it was ever so in a democracy? it simply isn’t possible that all religions can be accommodated in a fair and just society. Democracy and religion are mutually exclusive on this issue.

I will of course never use these services, and will never go to war, and will never go against God in my private life. My public life, I’m simply not in control of 100% of it. Kanye shrug.
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Sarah in our country there are certain freedoms considered sancrosect and one of them is freedom of religion. There is a huge difference between paying taxes that indirectly go to causes we don’t approve of and a DIRECT affront of religious liberty by requiring private organizations to violate their very strongly held beliefs. In our country if you are a Quaker you do not have to engage in combat. Another example where the importance of our freedom of religion is clearly demonstrated. This is something we hold dear as Americans. If your country has exchanged your freedoms for government goodies, so be it but don’t think that same philosophy applies to America. The Church (and other supporters of life) is not asking for accommodation, they are stating they cannot participate in a gravely evil activity and our Constitution allows us to say no

Lisa
 
I’ll get all the religious freedom I need in Heaven, hopefully. Until then, I live on a planet that contains other people.
 
This discussion really does disappoint me that it is even happening. How can anybody but understand our position? Forcing us to participate in something that is contrary to our religious belief, by government mandate?
And they did not anticipate the negative reaction? Reading this article, seems this administration is full of a bunch of bungling knuckle-heads.
 
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