What’s the most irritating pro-abortion argument you’ve heard?

[Freddy]

Yeah, that’s what a large percentage of pro-aborts say.

Listen, buddy. I am not ‘pro-abort’. And I assume you know what that actually means. I have said nothing that would give you the slightest indication whatsoever that I am. Whereas I have actually posted that I am not proposing or even suggesting that abortion is OK. So quit the assumptions and the derogatory remarks if you could. I’d really appreciate it.

Now if you have anything constructive to add to the thread I’d be glad to read it.

 

[thelovelyone]

Pretty much

 

[Freddy]

Pretty much

So if a child has been raped, becomes pregnant and wants to end it, you find that ‘irritating’…

 

[thelovelyone]

It’s not irritating I just think that abortion is wrong for most reasons. I didn’t mean to be so vague. Yes it is wrong to harm people you’re right.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Do you think a woman reacts the same way if she is told that she has had a miscarriage at five weeks and told her baby had died a week before being born?

Do you think she’d react the same way if you emerged from the building and presented her with a flask containing a frozen embryo as opposed to her child?

Do you think that anyone at all would consider the actions of a person saving the embryo instead of the child that of a sane person?

What they think hardly matters and they do not have much ground to make a logical case.

 

[thelovelyone]

No I just was afraid of using the word rape because I don’t know if I was going to suspended or banned

 

[Freddy]

No I just was afraid of using the word rape because I don’t know if I was going to suspended or banned

You won’t get banned for something like that. But maybe you need to think about the question and how you answered it. You won’t get banned for that either. But people might think that nominating an argument for ending a young girl’s pregnancy after being raped as being ‘irritating’ (that’s what the op was asking) shows a lack of compassion.

I’m sure that doesn’t reflect who you are. And welcome to the forum.

 

[thelovelyone]

Yes I apologize for any misunderstanding and I’ll be more careful with my words from now on. Thank you

 

[ImJustPro]

Yes I apologize for any misunderstanding and I’ll be more careful with my words from now on. Thank you

You’re doing just fine. Welcome to the forum!

 

[Freddy]

Alright, yes or no question. Are you pro choice?

That’s a much better reflection of my position. Thank you for changing the term being used. I appreciate it. And yes, rather obviously, I am generally pro choice.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

You definitely could. That is, of course, a whole different conversation, but it’s consistent.

 

[1cthlctrth]

I wonder if pro-abortionists would also make that argument regarding permitting rape or murder. “Don’t impose your values on others.”

 

[Zaccheus]

ALittleBitCrunchy:

So, a young child who is warm or a young child who is cold IOW. It’s as silly as asking whether I’d save a five-year-old or a six-year-old. I’d save whichever I could. I’d try to save both.

Me too. But hypotheticals don’t work like that. It’s not two small children. It’s a frozen foetus OR the child.

You can answer another question instead if you like: Why do people who are pro choice almost always say they’d save the child and almost all people who don’t support abortion refuse to answer? As we might see.

You see it as “a frozen foetus or the child” because you already decided the foetus is not a child. Which I think is why abortion advocates use this contrived dilemma.

Also: “I would do all I could to save both” is not refusal to answer. It’s an answer you don’t like.

As I said, most people who do not support abortion refuse to answer.

And again, an answer you don’t like is not a refusal to answer.

I think the assumption of the hypothetical is that you actually save one. Whichever one it is, it continues to live.

And you’re right up to a point. The question is meant to determine value.

The question is meant to trap me into seeming to agree with your determination of value.

Saving both is not an option that was given. Y

Because it is a contrived scenario. You don’t want the respondent to be free to choose all options. Only the ones that let you trap him into an answer you would like to hear.

As I said, most people who do not support abortion generally avoid making a choice.

Avoid submitting to the contrived scenario.

 

[Zaccheus]

Refusing to select one of them tells us as much about the person as making the choice does. You do understand that, don’t you?

Sure it does. In my case it tells you that I know a loaded question when I read one.

 

[Leek]

I tend to be irritated by both pro-life and pro-choice arguments. A pregnant person needs to have resources available to mitigate the very real risks to her wellbeing otherwise she’s in self defence mode and no amount of philosophy will help. Creating a world where being a pregnant human is normal and the risks and consequences are taken seriously will make a lot of pro choice arguments go away.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Refusing to select one of them tells us as much about the person as making the choice does. You do understand that, don’t you?

Sure it does. In my case it tells you that I know a loaded question when I read one.

A loaded question is designed to obtain a specific answer. I don’t have any preference for which answer is chosen. It simply tells us how people think about questions regarding the value of life in two different circumstances.

What normally happens with this scenario is that people who consider a child to have more value than a frozen embryo will choose the child. Even if, like Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman, that person woukd prefer there were no abortions. That’s most people.

Very few people choose saving the embryo. For obvious reasons.

But those who would hold to the position that there is literally no difference between a zygote and a fully formed child a day before birth will say something along the lines of: ‘I’d try to save both’. Every time.

 

[Swiftdove]

I was gonna say that.

 

[nicholasG]

I’ve never heard an irritating “pro-abortion argument.” I’ve heard “pro-choice” arguments though and I don’t think of them as irritating.

 

[Zaccheus]

A loaded question is designed to obtain a specific answer. I don’t have any preference for which answer is chosen. It simply tells us how people think about questions regarding the value of life in two different circumstances.

“Have you quit beating your mother yet? Answer yes or no.”
Of course both answers allow the questioner to claim you admit to beating your mother. Which shows that a question that permits two answers can still be loaded.

And you don’t have a preference because both the answers you want to permit serve your purpose. Both answers make the responder look bad.

But those who would hold to the position that there is literally no difference between a zygote and a fully formed child a day before birth

I don’t hold that there is literally no difference. I hold that a living embryo and a post-birth child are both persons.
And I note you went from talking about fetuses to talking about zygotes.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

What normally happens with this scenario is that people who consider a child to have more value than a frozen embryo will choose the child. Even if, like Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman, that person woukd prefer there were no abortions. That’s most people.

Very few people choose saving the embryo. For obvious reasons.

But those who would hold to the position that there is literally no difference between a zygote and a fully formed child a day before birth will say something along the lines of: ‘I’d try to save both’. Every time.

I’d like to clarify, I do hold that a human has equal value at all stages of development. However, I realize that in that situation, there can be a determining factor beyond the value of each human being, which I figured out by changing the hypothetical a bit.

I do agree with you that “I’d try to save both” is an annoying non-answer.