What are "demons" accused of doing these days?

[CB_Catholic]

How funny! Timotheos just said that they hide, because if they would show their face, people would run to the Church. You guys fight it out.

Rather, I think we just said the same thing.

 

[Donald_W]

I feel very sorry for the so called catholic apologists on this thread. None of them have stepped up to the plate and actually tried to answer your question, and instead broke forum rules in name calling and trying to read minds much like a two bit fortune teller.

Here is a wonderful apologetic for you: (paraphrase). Had to cut most of it but you can read the whole article here: papalencyclicals.net/Paul06/p6devil.htm

CONFRONTING THE DEVIL’S POWER

Address of Pope Paul VI to a General Audience November 15, 1972.

WHAT ARE the Church’s greatest needs at the present time? Don’t be surprised at Our answer and don’t write it off as simplistic or even superstitious: one of the Church’s greatest needs is to be defended against the evil we call the Devil.

Before clarifying what We mean, We would like to invite you to open your minds to the light that faith casts on the vision of human existence, a vision which from this observation point of faith reaches out to immense distances and penetrates to unique depths. To tell the truth, the picture that we are invited to behold with an all-encompassing realism is a very beautiful one. It is the picture of creation, the work of God. He Himself admired its substantial beauty as an external reflection of His wisdom and power.[1]

Christian vision of the universe

Then there is the interesting picture of the dramatic history of mankind, leading to the history of the Redemption and of Christ; the history of our salvation, with its stupendous treasures of revelation, prophecy and holiness, of life elevated to a supernatural level, of eternal promises[4] The Christian vision of the universe and of life is therefore triumphantly optimistic; and this vision fully justifies our joy and gratitude for being alive, so that we sing forth our happiness in celebrating God’s glory.[5]

The mystery of evil

But is this vision complete and correct? Are the defects in the world of no account? What of the things that don’t work properly in our lives? What of suffering and death, wickedness, cruelty and sin? In a word, what of evil?

We find evil in the realm of nature, where so many of its expressions seem to speak to us of some sort of disorder. Then we find it among human beings, in the form of weakness, frailty, suffering, death and something worse: the tension between two laws-one reaching for the good, the other directed toward evil.

We come face to face with sin which is a perversion of human freedom and the profound cause of death because it involves detachment from God, the source of life. And then sin in its turn becomes the occasion and the effect of interference in us and our work by a dark, hostile agent, the Devil. Evil is not merely an absence of something but an active force, a living, spiritual being that is perverted and that perverts others. It is a terrible reality, mysterious and frightening.

Other New Testament passages

The lurking shadow of this wicked presence is pointed up in many, many passages of the New Testament. St. Paul calls him the “god of this world,”[12] and warns us of the struggle we Christians must carry on in the dark, not only against one Devil, but against a frightening multiplicity of them. “I put on the armor of God,” the Apostle tells us, “that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the Principalities and the Powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness on high.”[13]

Many passages in the Gospel show us that we are dealing not just with one Devil, but with many.[14] But the principal one is Satan, which means the adversary,

Ignoring the Devil

This matter of the Devil and of the influence he can exert on individuals as well as on communities, entire societies or events, is a very important chapter of Catholic doctrine which should be studied again, although it is given little attention today. Some think a sufficient compensation can be found in psychoanalytic and psychiatric studies or in spiritualistic experiences, which are unfortunately so widespread in some countries today.

People are afraid of falling back into old Manichean theories, or into frightening deviations of fancy and superstition. Nowadays they prefer to appear strong and unprejudiced to pose as positivists, while at the same time lending faith to many unfounded magical or popular superstitions or, worse still, exposing their souls-their baptized souls, visited so often by the Eucharistic Presence and inhabited by the Holy Spirit!-to licentious sensual experiences and to harmful drugs, as well as to the ideological seductions of fashionable errors. These are cracks through which the Evil One can easily penetrate and change the human mind.

I Presence of diabolical action

We have to be cautious about answering the first question, even though the signs of the Evil One seem to be very obvious at times.[23],[24] where the spirit of the Gospel is watered down and rejected where despair is affirmed as the last word; and so forth.

But this diagnosis is too extensive and difficult for Us to attempt to probe and authenticate it now. It holds a certain dramatic interest for everyone, however, and has been the subject of some famous passages in modern literature.[25] The problem of evil remains one of the greatest and most lasting problems for the human mind, even after the victorious response given to it by Jesus Christ. “We know,” writes St. John the Evangelist, “that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the evil one.”[26]

May Our apostolic blessing also be a help toward achieving this.

 

[Donald_W]

Hope everyone read the Holy Father entire article at the above link and here is another for those who are interested in EXORCISM AND POSSESSION
tldm.org/archives/Exorcism.htm

 

[timotheos]

Not likely. Even if I did believe in God, I would never believe in the devil, and since the Church asserts that there is one (or many?), it is not a likely prospect that I would turn to it for consolation. So they can manifest themselves at their leisure. My open house invitation also includes them, just as it includes God. Especially if they pay me a visit together. Now that would be fun company. Too bad both of them are so shy and bashful.

I have no idea what you mean, and how do you know about my lifestyle. Apart from the worship part, I live my life pretty much as Christians do. Many a times I was “accused” (tongue-in-cheek usage of the word) to be an exemplary Christian. When I came “clean”, there was some very serious astonishment.

Stories like that carry no weight.

Well, I did not wet my pants, no matter how scary this warning was meant to be.

Spock, I’m glad you are strong enough in intellect, character and independence to brush aside such nonsense as God, demons, heaven and hell. The weaker minds here, like myself, have a hard time completely disregarding many accounts of the miraculous and demonic, described by what appear to be credible witnesses. These accounts support our sadly misguided notion that the complexity of life and the universe just might be the work of a supreme being, who in addition has a personal concern for us. How silly. We walk around in our ignorance concerned about ridiculous things like death and eternity, things that are not of the slightest interest to superior minds such as yourself, who have already managed to successfully conquer that existential problem.

I apologize profusely for not offering you an explanation worthy of your consideration. Please understand that I am not intellectually capable of understanding the highly discriminating workings of your superior mind. Perhaps you can share some of your brilliance with us, from time to time, to let us poor pious slugs understand that it is you we should be worshipping, not God. Please give us a post as to where we can join the “Spocklic Answers” forum. Most of us are getting tired of worshipping this nonexistent Catholic “God” anyway.

May God enlighten you (sorry, there goes my weak mind and will, once again).

 

[cassini]

We don’t make things exist by believing in them.

Yes. I can personally confirm that demons most definitely DO exist. Considering I was quite certain that they did NOT when I fell into this remarkable discovery; I really don’t expect anyone to take my word on it. However, just to clear the air; my BS is in Computer Science. I have an extensive background in Systems Design. I would MUCH prefer to explain things in a natural way. In other words NO I do not “want them to exist”. My husband has a triple Major BS from Vanderbilt: Math, Computer Science and Electrical Engineering. We are VERY rational people who don’t scare easily.

For example, when the window rolled down by itself in the car recently as my husband was approaching it; he was able to take the door apart and find a faulty switch. However, when our crucifixes turn themselves around or disappear entirely, we are much more hard pressed to find an explanation. We have VERY large dogs; new locks and our children are all under 5. We recently put together 8+ pages of thorough documentation about the events we have experienced so far only to share with the Archbishop and his specialist… Many independent people have, without being told anything about the house, had issues to report, themselves. We have video documentation and pictures.

I will not share. This is our cross to bear. It is NOT a side-show for all those demon-freaks who get their kicks out of watching this stuff.

If I seem obtuse in my previous posts it is because I thoroughly understand and appreciate the belief that demons don’t exist. I am not too proud to admit I have been a fool in many ways.

“Spock” may be an antagonistic “troll” (this is not name calling - it is a clearly defined term that fits this kind of behavior perfectly), but I like him. He’s not afraid to throw his ideas out there for the world to remark upon. Unfortunately, his mind is in “closed” mode right now. It’s a stage in the growth process. Hopefully he won’t die there. It reminds me of something a black friend once shared with me. He said he much preferred interacting with whites in the South because at least there he knew where he stood. They don’t hide their prejudice. Now, Spock doesn’t hide his contempt or his arrogance. If you missed that, then I suggest you re-read the posts.

StrawberryJam - People get frustrated when the person in question patently ignores sound responses and instead “trolls” for inflammatory material. Please note that I soundly refuted every one of Spock’s arguments yet he chooses to engage with those who are actually bothered by what he says.

Again; it REALLY doesn’t matter what people think. Spock or anyone can say the sky is green and the grass is blue all day and all night, it doesn’t make it so. People are welcome to believe that demons don’t exist, but they do so at their own peril.

And rel1, the “darkness” I refer to in your post is from your statement that religion is money based and money driven. If that is not what you meant, I suggest you clarify what you wrote. Catholicism is God based. Check out this short, but enlightening exchange: askacatholic.com/_WebPostings/Answers/2009_09SEPT/2009SeptWhyNotGive_It_AllToThePoor.cfm . If you have not seen all of the good that Catholics and most Christians have done and are currently doing in the world, then 1. You need to get out more and 2. you need to do your own research instead of accepting what you are spoon fed from the media and in school and likely by your friends who are just parroting popular thinking anyway. (Broad generalization here - and remembering back to my circles of friends - not passing specific judgment).

BTW - The good thing about being actively attacked by demons is you get see how actively God works in our lives. I mean if you have a demon in your room trying to suffocate you, you begin to pray a St. Michael with your husband’s help, almost instantly you hear a scream fleeing down your hallway; well… let’s just say, that MAKES you see the world in a very different way.

Read your post InspiritCarol. Thanks.

 

[rel1]

…Devils and demons as well as witches, goblins, elfs, ghosts etc. are the invention of incredibly, idiotic inventions of a sick mind. It’s funny how some people imaginations run wild especially when that something is invisible and unprovable. Rapid proliferation to other gullible individuals is usually dependent on a profit motive. You remove the motive and you remove the nonsensicle and idiotic…

Is the above what you were referencing InspiritCarol?

 

[cassini]

…Devils and demons as well as witches, goblins, elfs, ghosts etc. are the invention of incredibly, idiotic inventions of a sick mind. It’s funny how some people imaginations run wild especially when that something is invisible and unprovable. Rapid proliferation to other gullible individuals is usually dependent on a profit motive. You remove the motive and you remove the nonsensicle and idiotic…

Is the above what you were referencing InspiritCarol?

I have never had an experience with a demon. Two lifetime pals though, reared Catholic but who lost their faith, and belief in the Devil and his demons, once had an experience that shook them up somewhat. Its a long story so I will cut corners. They we sitting in a car outside one of their houses late one night when the began to talk about the selling of one’s soul to Satan. Now these guys were capable of doing a deal if they thought they could get away with it, con the devil if he existed so to speak. One had the house key in his hand attached to his car keys, just as one does as one is ready to go into one’s house. Eventually it was time to go. He went to the door, the pal waiting for him to go inside before moving off home himself. No door key on key ring. He returned to car, turning searching it for key he thought might have come off keyring as he was fiddling with it earelier. No key found. He threw stones at window where his sister slept. She opened window to be asked to throw her door key down. She went to get her key. five seconds later something metal hit the concrete pavement with the same sound as though a dustbin lid had been thrown from the window above. The next thing the sister appeared with her key and signaled to her brother she was about to throw it down. ‘What on earth did you throw down’ asked her brother, thinking she had thrown the think that made the loud noise. ‘What are you talking about, here is the key, catch’ she replied. In the meantime the two pals were looking at this bright red glowing thing on the footpath. They waited in sheer disbelief until the thing stopped glowing. Dermot then picked it up. It was his house key, he recognised it somehow, and it was bent like a bow.

Aware of demons etc., the next day they went to a priest about the happening. He told them never again to discuss ‘selling your soul to the devil’. He gave no other advice than that. The boys were very frightened at the time and for some time afterwards. That was it. I think they reverted back to non belief in demons. I didn’t, the incident made perfect sense to me. He was letting them know he existed and if they wanted to pursue that deal - like Oliver Cromwell - he was there. In truth, he scared the living daylights out of them and to my knowledge they never did that deal. Now some posts speculated this could happen, well this is a true happening, and make of it what you like. My pals never forgot that night.

For myself I have read of demons tempting people throughout history. The story of Diana Vaughan is especially interesting. Pope Leo XIII called her experience ‘face to face combat with Satan.’ Three demons persecuted her for not insulting Mary as Luciferians do. It took the spirit of Joan of Arc to drive them away. Great demon stuff.

 

[Spock]

I have never had an experience with a demon. Two lifetime pals though, reared Catholic but who lost their faith, and belief in the Devil and his demons, once had an experience that shook them up somewhat.

Did it ever occur to you that they were simply pulling your leg?

There is a funny element to all these stories. The demons depicted are awefully stupid. I would imagine that the demons would have at a rudimentary understanding of human nature. If they wanted to “recruit” some teenagers, I would presume that they would come disguised as lewd, pretty girls offering some great sex. But no! That dumb demon was playing with the keys? Scaring the prospective recruits… how dumb can those demons be? As dumb, as… nah!

 

[hxcCatholic413]

…Devils and demons as well as witches, goblins, elfs, ghosts etc. are the invention of incredibly, idiotic inventions of a sick mind. It’s funny how some people imaginations run wild especially when that something is invisible and unprovable. Rapid proliferation to other gullible individuals is usually dependent on a profit motive. You remove the motive and you remove the nonsensicle and idiotic…

Is the above what you were referencing InspiritCarol?

You do realize that the Catholic Church believes in demons right? Just saying that because you refer to yourself as a Catholic. I’d also recommend that it’s not a good trait to put yourself on a pedestal and mock other users. I’ll be praying for you. God Bless!

 

[rel1]

I have never had an experience with a demon. Two lifetime pals though, reared Catholic but who lost their faith, and belief in the Devil and his demons, once had an experience that shook them up somewhat. Its a long story so I will cut corners. They we sitting in a car outside one of their houses late one night when the began to talk about the selling of one’s soul to Satan. Now these guys were capable of doing a deal if they thought they could get away with it, con the devil if he existed so to speak. One had the house key in his hand attached to his car keys, just as one does as one is ready to go into one’s house. Eventually it was time to go. He went to the door, the pal waiting for him to go inside before moving off home himself. No door key on key ring. He returned to car, turning searching it for key he thought might have come off keyring as he was fiddling with it earelier. No key found. He threw stones at window where his sister slept. She opened window to be asked to throw her door key down. She went to get her key. five seconds later something metal hit the concrete pavement with the same sound as though a dustbin lid had been thrown from the window above. The next thing the sister appeared with her key and signaled to her brother she was about to throw it down. ‘What on earth did you throw down’ asked her brother, thinking she had thrown the think that made the loud noise. ‘What are you talking about, here is the key, catch’ she replied. In the meantime the two pals were looking at this bright red glowing thing on the footpath. They waited in sheer disbelief until the thing stopped glowing. Dermot then picked it up. It was his house key, he recognised it somehow, and it was bent like a bow.

Aware of demons etc., the next day they went to a priest about the happening. He told them never again to discuss ‘selling your soul to the devil’. He gave no other advice than that. The boys were very frightened at the time and for some time afterwards. That was it. I think they reverted back to non belief in demons. I didn’t, the incident made perfect sense to me. He was letting them know he existed and if they wanted to pursue that deal - like Oliver Cromwell - he was there. In truth, he scared the living daylights out of them and to my knowledge they never did that deal. Now some posts speculated this could happen, well this is a true happening, and make of it what you like. My pals never forgot that night.

For myself I have read of demons tempting people throughout history. The story of Diana Vaughan is especially interesting. Pope Leo XIII called her experience ‘face to face combat with Satan.’ Three demons persecuted her for not insulting Mary as Luciferians do. It took the spirit of Joan of Arc to drive them away. Great demon stuff.

I failed to mention that people ( me included ) have always had a fascination for scary stories. I can imagine the primitives sitting around camp fires taking turns telling their tales and trying to stir as much emotion as possible from the others in the group. And of course this is still common today.

 

[rel1]

Spock, I’m glad you are strong enough in intellect, character and independence to brush aside such nonsense as God, demons, heaven and hell. The weaker minds here, like myself, have a hard time completely disregarding many accounts of the miraculous and demonic, described by what appear to be credible witnesses. These accounts support our sadly misguided notion that the complexity of life and the universe just might be the work of a supreme being, who in addition has a personal concern for us. How silly. We walk around in our ignorance concerned about ridiculous things like death and eternity, things that are not of the slightest interest to superior minds such as yourself, who have already managed to successfully conquer that existential problem.

I apologize profusely for not offering you an explanation worthy of your consideration. Please understand that I am not intellectually capable of understanding the highly discriminating workings of your superior mind. Perhaps you can share some of your brilliance with us, from time to time, to let us poor pious slugs understand that it is you we should be worshipping, not God. Please give us a post as to where we can join the “Spocklic Answers” forum. Most of us are getting tired of worshipping this nonexistent Catholic “God” anyway.

May God enlighten you (sorry, there goes my weak mind and will, once again).

Well said…I enjoyed reading…I believe Spock whether right or wrong brings out a very good discussion.

 

[cassini]

Did it ever occur to you that they were simply pulling your leg?

There is a funny element to all these stories. The demons depicted are awefully stupid. I would imagine that the demons would have at a rudimentary understanding of human nature. If they wanted to “recruit” some teenagers, I would presume that they would come disguised as lewd, pretty girls offering some great sex. But no! That dumb demon was playing with the keys? Scaring the prospective recruits… how dumb can those demons be? As dumb, as… nah!

The friend who told me the story is a life-long friend. We have been through a lot together, and pulling one another’s leg with such tales is not for us. I also happen to know he did visit that priest, the two of them. The only connection between what happened and demons is that they were discussing selling one’s soul to the Devil when it happened. If they wanted to invent a story, they could have done a little better for as you say it makes little sense told the third, fourth etc., time. But if you were there that night, it frightened the s**t out of them. I just told the story as a true one so that others would know of one that actually happened as the thread question asked… After that, it matters little what you think of it. Maybe the girls had been tried but didn’t work so he gave them something else to think about.

 

[Donald_W]

Here is another story for you. This happen to me several years ago in Harvey, La. at a Bar. Yes, I was drinking but never the less, the story is true. I forget the exact happenings or discussions but it goes something like this:
While drinking, I made mention of a vision that I had, and this young fellow appear(age of about 20 or so) and he ask about the vision. As I was explaining it to him, we both was standing next to Heaven with this great light before us. It was just as one Saint had describe it–felt as though I was going to break up into millions of pieces and cease to exist–the power that was given forth from the light was very immense. The Young fellow said to me. Now you know why I turn against him. Meaning, because of the great power which was wielded by the source. Any ways now you know that Satan is still around and getting involve in people business.
Before that I was almost at the conclusion that Satan had already been destroy and it was just a matter of Saint Michael and his army cleaning up a few demons. Hope God let me join the Roman Catholic Church some day, so that I can get in on the battle.

 

[guanophore]

Here is another story for you. This happen to me several years ago in Harvey, La. at a Bar. Yes, I was drinking but never the less, the story is true. **I forget the exact happenings **or discussions but it goes something like this:

But you know the story is true?

 While drinking, I made mention of a vision that I had, and this young fellow appear(age of about 20 or so) and he ask about the vision. As I was explaining it to him, we both was standing next to Heaven with this great light before us.

I am aware of another who may appear as an angel of light. One that is likely to be found in such an environment, or appear to people in such a condition…

  The Young fellow said to me. Now you know why I turn against him. Meaning, because of the great power which was wielded by the source. Any ways now you know that Satan is still around and getting involve in people business.

With all due respect, we did know this prior to your sharing your personal encounter with Lucifer. However, your story does confirm the facts.

 Before that I was almost at the conclusion that Satan had already been destroy and it was just a matter of Saint Michael and his army cleaning up  a few demons. Hope God let me join the Roman Catholic Church some day, so that I can get in on the battle.

One of Satan’s best tactics is to convince people that he does not exist.

Perhaps if you can learn and follow the forum rules, being here will enable you to learn more about the Catholic faith, and you will eventually be able to embrace the One Faith deposted once for all to the Church.

 

[Pieman333272]

Of course spontaneous remissions are not unheard of, though they are rare.

Out of curiosity, Spock, could you give me a case where a handicap, disease, or injury healed spontaneously without prayer on any party’s part (the doctor, the family& friends of the patient, and the patient)?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

The demons are doing today what they have always been accused of doing. Mucking up all creation.

 

[guanophore]

Amazing questions. Any answers?

If you find yourself “amazed” by your questions, then it is a testimony to how little you have studied the Christian faith. Those scientists were Catholic Christians!

 

[guanophore]

Some troll if he did over 900 posts to work up to this.

I am not a troll, and I do want to know what the Catholic position is on the existance of “demons” if it all. I have seen lots of threads on this website that refer to them and it intrigues me also.

The best way to start on the answer to this question is your NT. It was written by, for, and about Catholics. There is quite a bit contained in there about what the church thinks of demons.

 

[guanophore]

But it was supposed that St. Vitus dance was a sign of demonic possession. Don’t you realize that the whole OP was tongue-in-cheek? To expose the incredible gullibility and stupidity of those who used to believe all that nonsense?

No, I did not realize that. All that I seemed to realize is how you revealed your own gullibility and stupidity. You are projecting your modern perspective of these conditions back into history, where people did not have the knowledge and education that you do. You are judging them by the standards under which you live, which, in itself, is a prejudicial act.

Demonic influence can contribute to the whole range of human experience, and there is no reason to think that any human malady (incuding epilepsy) is not part of the fallen world in which we live, as well as a condition that gives a foothold to the evil that runs rampant.

I am infinitely surprised that there are still people who believe in guardian-angels, demons, imps, werewolves, witches, poltergeists and such. In the 21st century! As Einstein said once: "There are two things which are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity.

Well, all I can say is, when you are face to face with evil itself, you will quickly revise your perceptions.

 

[guanophore]

Not much of an answer. What the Church “forbids” is irrelevant, since there are many people who do not accept the Church’s authority

One has to wonder why you are even posting on a Catholic forum, looking for Catholic answers, if you really feel that what the Church teaches is irrelevant.