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Isaiah45_9
Guest
I like your avatar, a lotYou are in good company!
What are some of the main reasons that people are attracted to the Protestant faith?
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Seriously? You donāt believe Protestants have values or morals? Or donāt look at Scripture?
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House_Harkonnen
Guest
Nonsensical. Evangelical Protestants consistently put us mainline folks and Roman Catholics to shame when it comes to Christian morality as well as biblical knowledge. We could take some lessons from them.
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benhur
Guest
That is only true for 2384 out of 38000 or is it 43000 denominations that we have now.
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Slaney
Guest
Because the road is wider, +++
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benhur
Guest
True. Even some cults or what we consider non-christian like Mormons or even JWās live "holyāā and disciplined lives.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
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benhur
Guest
Really? It is easier to go along to get along. It is easier to rest in a majority or with staus quo and to rail against any rebel or reformer. It is easier to drink milk (what someone else has digested) than to eat meat (what you must digest).
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onegirlinchrist
Guest
I may not be exactly who youāre looking to hear from, given that I was raised Mormon and then went Protestant and now converting Catholic. So not an ex-Catholic! But, I have most definitely been on a spiritual journey and have a few thoughts.
Mormonism is big on priesthood authority and central authority; they claim that the priesthood keys were restored to Joseph Smith (a whole different topic). Anyway, due to this, the first place I looked after leaving Mormonism and spending a few years away from organized religion was the Catholic Church. I wanted to worship in a church that claimed a direct, unbroken line to God.
What sent me running for the hills in terror
from Catholicism was fear of eternal Hell (not really a doctrine in Mormonism), as well as an oversimplification of the mortal sin doctrine. I didnāt fully grasp the concept that mortal sin must involve not only grave matter, but full knowledge and consent. Without understanding how to interpret those additional qualifications, it appeared to me as if everyone around me was going to Hell! Scary. (My friends, sadly, do their fair share of grave matter. As does much of secular society these days).
But with a better understanding of Catholic theology, I see now that things arenāt quite that simplistic. I have confidence that Godās judgements will be fair. (Another topic).
Back on track: I become a passionate Christian Universalist (no eternal Hell, please!) I found myself a non-denominational Church that didnāt have eternal damnation listed on their statement of beliefs. I read the Bible and fell in love with Jesus. I loved being able to worship according to my own interpretation of the Bible. I loved the once-saved-always-saved flavor of Evangelical Protestantism in particular. Protestantism felt warm, positive, and āBible based.ā None of those corrupt popes, āmedievalā rituals or costumes. I didnāt see any medievalism in the Bible; it looked to me like the Catholic church just made it all up long after the Bible was complied. They existed only to protect their own power and wealth, and keep their believers in the dark about Biblical truth.
Or so I thoughtā¦
I was really hungry for answers. Universalism āfeltā right, but I wanted more data. I approached Christianity like a treasure hunt. My mission was to learn the Bible super well and find the Protestant denomination that was the most Biblical. What I ended up discovering is that they all disagree, and have always disagreed. From the earliest days of the reformation, Protestants have been bickering over doctrine. For good reason: the Bible is not always clear. Read it 1,000 times and you still wonāt be quite sure if youāre āinterpretingā it correctly. But then this is often something people have to learn the hard way for themselves.
I found myself reading an obscure PhD thesis on the Jewish custom of ālaying on of handsā and threw my own hands up in the air. āWouldnāt it be nice if Jesus had established an actual church that lasted through the ages? What happened to the churches those apostles started? Boy, sure wish I could talk to them.ā And it hit me like a ton of bricks. Christ never expected anyone in 2014 to independently interpret 5,000 years of salvation history. Youād have to get PhDs in multiple ancient languages, near eastern cultures, near eastern history, etc., in addition to a theological degree to make an āeducatedā guess. Besides, who compiled the Bible in the 4th century the first place? Oh yeah, the Catholics.
I was tired of studying and being cranky, locking myself away with my computer and books, just trying to know which church to join. I wanted to start actually living a Christian life. And I wanted to know for sure that what I believed wasnāt just my own opinion or best guess.
Iām excited to start RCIA this Fall!
Protestantism allows people to ādoā Christianity on their own terms. It allows people to interpret the Bible in their own way and create their own churches after their own idea of who Jesus is. Depending on where a person is at in their spiritual journey, this can be incredibly appealing and comforting.
But once you start really wanting divine authority, and think critically about the pedigree of your theological ideas, thatās when you go Catholic imo. I have discovered that not only is Catholicism wonderfully and deeply Biblical, but the writings of the ancient Church Fathers are indeed compatible with todayās chatechism.
Praise God, it is the same Church Christ started in ancient times.
There is simply no other Christian Church that makes the claims Catholicism does. Catholicism claims to have existed since the time of Christ under an unbroken line of central papal leadership. No other Church claims that or can demonstrate that. The Catholic Churchās claim is consistent with Paulās explanation of what the Church is: the body of Christ, with Christ as itās head. Because Christ is the head of the Church, it can not and has not failed. In Gethsemene, Christ prayed that His Church would be āoneā and Catholicism has demonstrated that. Catholicism is, to my knowledge, the oldest organization (political or religious) existent on the planet. That continuity and unity donāt just happen. Human beings donāt cooperate very well. The Catholic Church has weathered the centuries because it is not a human organization, it is a divine organization.
This is why I do not think you will tire of the Catholic Church. It is simply unrivaled and unique in itās claims; unique among all Christian faiths, and unique among all world religions. No other faith system on the planet makes the claims that the Catholic Church does.
(continued)
Mormonism is big on priesthood authority and central authority; they claim that the priesthood keys were restored to Joseph Smith (a whole different topic). Anyway, due to this, the first place I looked after leaving Mormonism and spending a few years away from organized religion was the Catholic Church. I wanted to worship in a church that claimed a direct, unbroken line to God.
What sent me running for the hills in terror
from Catholicism was fear of eternal Hell (not really a doctrine in Mormonism), as well as an oversimplification of the mortal sin doctrine. I didnāt fully grasp the concept that mortal sin must involve not only grave matter, but full knowledge and consent. Without understanding how to interpret those additional qualifications, it appeared to me as if everyone around me was going to Hell! Scary. (My friends, sadly, do their fair share of grave matter. As does much of secular society these days).But with a better understanding of Catholic theology, I see now that things arenāt quite that simplistic. I have confidence that Godās judgements will be fair. (Another topic).
Back on track: I become a passionate Christian Universalist (no eternal Hell, please!) I found myself a non-denominational Church that didnāt have eternal damnation listed on their statement of beliefs. I read the Bible and fell in love with Jesus. I loved being able to worship according to my own interpretation of the Bible. I loved the once-saved-always-saved flavor of Evangelical Protestantism in particular. Protestantism felt warm, positive, and āBible based.ā None of those corrupt popes, āmedievalā rituals or costumes. I didnāt see any medievalism in the Bible; it looked to me like the Catholic church just made it all up long after the Bible was complied. They existed only to protect their own power and wealth, and keep their believers in the dark about Biblical truth.
Or so I thoughtā¦
I was really hungry for answers. Universalism āfeltā right, but I wanted more data. I approached Christianity like a treasure hunt. My mission was to learn the Bible super well and find the Protestant denomination that was the most Biblical. What I ended up discovering is that they all disagree, and have always disagreed. From the earliest days of the reformation, Protestants have been bickering over doctrine. For good reason: the Bible is not always clear. Read it 1,000 times and you still wonāt be quite sure if youāre āinterpretingā it correctly. But then this is often something people have to learn the hard way for themselves.
I found myself reading an obscure PhD thesis on the Jewish custom of ālaying on of handsā and threw my own hands up in the air. āWouldnāt it be nice if Jesus had established an actual church that lasted through the ages? What happened to the churches those apostles started? Boy, sure wish I could talk to them.ā And it hit me like a ton of bricks. Christ never expected anyone in 2014 to independently interpret 5,000 years of salvation history. Youād have to get PhDs in multiple ancient languages, near eastern cultures, near eastern history, etc., in addition to a theological degree to make an āeducatedā guess. Besides, who compiled the Bible in the 4th century the first place? Oh yeah, the Catholics.
I was tired of studying and being cranky, locking myself away with my computer and books, just trying to know which church to join. I wanted to start actually living a Christian life. And I wanted to know for sure that what I believed wasnāt just my own opinion or best guess.
Iām excited to start RCIA this Fall!
Protestantism allows people to ādoā Christianity on their own terms. It allows people to interpret the Bible in their own way and create their own churches after their own idea of who Jesus is. Depending on where a person is at in their spiritual journey, this can be incredibly appealing and comforting.
But once you start really wanting divine authority, and think critically about the pedigree of your theological ideas, thatās when you go Catholic imo. I have discovered that not only is Catholicism wonderfully and deeply Biblical, but the writings of the ancient Church Fathers are indeed compatible with todayās chatechism.
Praise God, it is the same Church Christ started in ancient times.
There is simply no other Christian Church that makes the claims Catholicism does. Catholicism claims to have existed since the time of Christ under an unbroken line of central papal leadership. No other Church claims that or can demonstrate that. The Catholic Churchās claim is consistent with Paulās explanation of what the Church is: the body of Christ, with Christ as itās head. Because Christ is the head of the Church, it can not and has not failed. In Gethsemene, Christ prayed that His Church would be āoneā and Catholicism has demonstrated that. Catholicism is, to my knowledge, the oldest organization (political or religious) existent on the planet. That continuity and unity donāt just happen. Human beings donāt cooperate very well. The Catholic Church has weathered the centuries because it is not a human organization, it is a divine organization.
This is why I do not think you will tire of the Catholic Church. It is simply unrivaled and unique in itās claims; unique among all Christian faiths, and unique among all world religions. No other faith system on the planet makes the claims that the Catholic Church does.
(continued)
O
onegirlinchrist
Guest
(continued from above)
Further, the Catholic Church is filled with spiritual helps and gifts. In Protestantism at itās best, you get only a great sermon, fellowship, and good music. In Catholicism, you can find those things, as well as: 1) a baptism that can cleanse you of all sin, 2) the Eucharist, which is the very body and blood of Christ, which can sanctify you every time you partake 3) Eucharistic Adoration: DO IT you can sit in the very presence of Jesus Christ and donāt have to wait until the afterlife to do so, 4) priests who can absolve you of all sin so that you donāt just feel but know in fact that you are forgiven, 5) a sacramental marriage, wherein your soul and that of your spouse will be āknitā together in a special way, 6) holy water (bless yourself with it, and donāt forget to take some home with you after church!), 7) the Saints! People who will pray for you. Real people who are actually in Heaven now. You can study their lives and learn what it means to be a good Christian and not just wonder what it takes to get to Heavenā¦and moreā¦
Catholicism is all about God investing His Church with spiritual help and divine gifts. The spiritual and sacred meet the physical world. Water is blessed and takes away sin. Bread and wine are blessed and become the blood and body of Christ. Christ is present in the tabernacle of every Catholic Church, heās not just a distant idea or great story.
No other Church can give you all that help! You simply wonāt tire of it. Itās just too wondrous.
Oh, plus Catholic spirituality, art, and history are 2,000 years old. Lots to study and learn about. Many of the worldās greatest artists, scientists, and intellectuals were Catholics. The history of Catholicism is basically the history of Western Civilization.
You wonāt get bored by Catholicism. Trust me.
God bless you! May you find the joy, relief, and peace in Catholicism that I have found. P.S. try Eucharistic Adoration some time, if you havenāt already. You canāt sit in the literal presence of Jesus Christ in a Protestant Church, just sayinā!
Further, the Catholic Church is filled with spiritual helps and gifts. In Protestantism at itās best, you get only a great sermon, fellowship, and good music. In Catholicism, you can find those things, as well as: 1) a baptism that can cleanse you of all sin, 2) the Eucharist, which is the very body and blood of Christ, which can sanctify you every time you partake 3) Eucharistic Adoration: DO IT
you can sit in the very presence of Jesus Christ and donāt have to wait until the afterlife to do so, 4) priests who can absolve you of all sin so that you donāt just feel but know in fact that you are forgiven, 5) a sacramental marriage, wherein your soul and that of your spouse will be āknitā together in a special way, 6) holy water (bless yourself with it, and donāt forget to take some home with you after church!), 7) the Saints! People who will pray for you. Real people who are actually in Heaven now. You can study their lives and learn what it means to be a good Christian and not just wonder what it takes to get to Heavenā¦and moreā¦Catholicism is all about God investing His Church with spiritual help and divine gifts. The spiritual and sacred meet the physical world. Water is blessed and takes away sin. Bread and wine are blessed and become the blood and body of Christ. Christ is present in the tabernacle of every Catholic Church, heās not just a distant idea or great story.
No other Church can give you all that help! You simply wonāt tire of it. Itās just too wondrous.
Oh, plus Catholic spirituality, art, and history are 2,000 years old. Lots to study and learn about. Many of the worldās greatest artists, scientists, and intellectuals were Catholics. The history of Catholicism is basically the history of Western Civilization.
You wonāt get bored by Catholicism. Trust me.
God bless you! May you find the joy, relief, and peace in Catholicism that I have found. P.S. try Eucharistic Adoration some time, if you havenāt already. You canāt sit in the literal presence of Jesus Christ in a Protestant Church, just sayinā!
S
Sy_Noe
Guest
You clearly believe all that the RCC claims and as such it appears you are in the right place for you on your walk. Best of luck on your journey.I may not be exactly who youāre looking to hear from, given that I was raised Mormon and then went Protestant and now converting Catholic. So not an ex-Catholic! But, I have most definitely been on a spiritual journey and have a few thoughts.
Mormonism is big on priesthood authority and central authority; they claim that the priesthood keys were restored to Joseph Smith (a whole different topic). Anyway, due to this, the first place I looked after leaving Mormonism and spending a few years away from organized religion was the Catholic Church. I wanted to worship in a church that claimed a direct, unbroken line to God.
What sent me running for the hills in terror
But with a better understanding of Catholic theology, I see now that things arenāt quite that simplistic. I have confidence that Godās judgements will be fair. (Another topic).
Back on track: I become a passionate Christian Universalist (no eternal Hell, please!) I found myself a non-denominational Church that didnāt have eternal damnation listed on their statement of beliefs. I read the Bible and fell in love with Jesus. I loved being able to worship according to my own interpretation of the Bible. I loved the once-saved-always-saved flavor of Evangelical Protestantism in particular. Protestantism felt warm, positive, and āBible based.ā None of those corrupt popes, āmedievalā rituals or costumes. I didnāt see any medievalism in the Bible; it looked to me like the Catholic church just made it all up long after the Bible was complied. They existed only to protect their own power and wealth, and keep their believers in the dark about Biblical truth.
Or so I thoughtā¦
I was really hungry for answers. Universalism āfeltā right, but I wanted more data. I approached Christianity like a treasure hunt. My mission was to learn the Bible super well and find the Protestant denomination that was the most Biblical. What I ended up discovering is that they all disagree, and have always disagreed. From the earliest days of the reformation, Protestants have been bickering over doctrine. For good reason: the Bible is not always clear. Read it 1,000 times and you still wonāt be quite sure if youāre āinterpretingā it correctly. But then this is often something people have to learn the hard way for themselves.
I found myself reading an obscure PhD thesis on the Jewish custom of ālaying on of handsā and threw my own hands up in the air. āWouldnāt it be nice if Jesus had established an actual church that lasted through the ages? What happened to the churches those apostles started? Boy, sure wish I could talk to them.ā And it hit me like a ton of bricks. Christ never expected anyone in 2014 to independently interpret 5,000 years of salvation history. Youād have to get PhDs in multiple ancient languages, near eastern cultures, near eastern history, etc., in addition to a theological degree to make an āeducatedā guess. Besides, who compiled the Bible in the 4th century the first place? Oh yeah, the Catholics.
I was tired of studying and being cranky, locking myself away with my computer and books, just trying to know which church to join. I wanted to start actually living a Christian life. And I wanted to know for sure that what I believed wasnāt just my own opinion or best guess.
Iām excited to start RCIA this Fall!
Protestantism allows people to ādoā Christianity on their own terms. It allows people to interpret the Bible in their own way and create their own churches after their own idea of who Jesus is. Depending on where a person is at in their spiritual journey, this can be incredibly appealing and comforting.
But once you start really wanting divine authority, and think critically about the pedigree of your theological ideas, thatās when you go Catholic imo. I have discovered that not only is Catholicism wonderfully and deeply Biblical, but the writings of the ancient Church Fathers are indeed compatible with todayās chatechism.
Praise God, it is the same Church Christ started in ancient times.
There is simply no other Christian Church that makes the claims Catholicism does. Catholicism claims to have existed since the time of Christ under an unbroken line of central papal leadership. No other Church claims that or can demonstrate that. The Catholic Churchās claim is consistent with Paulās explanation of what the Church is: the body of Christ, with Christ as itās head. Because Christ is the head of the Church, it can not and has not failed. In Gethsemene, Christ prayed that His Church would be āoneā and Catholicism has demonstrated that. Catholicism is, to my knowledge, the oldest organization (political or religious) existent on the planet. That continuity and unity donāt just happen. Human beings donāt cooperate very well. The Catholic Church has weathered the centuries because it is not a human organization, it is a divine organization.
This is why I do not think you will tire of the Catholic Church. It is simply unrivaled and unique in itās claims; unique among all Christian faiths, and unique among all world religions. No other faith system on the planet makes the claims that the Catholic Church does.
(continued)
J
jericho777
Guest
Thank you. Nice to meet you. I like the name too, however itās a nickname from a coworker not my real name.Hi jericho777. So nice to see another jericho around here.
E
Eric_Hilbert
Guest
I really donāt write warnings to observe my great writing skills.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12142415&postcount=519
The TOPIC, not EACH OTHER.
**If you havenāt received an infraction, this does not apply to you. **
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12142415&postcount=519
The TOPIC, not EACH OTHER.
**If you havenāt received an infraction, this does not apply to you. **
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sailor28
Guest
Iām listening. You are right. Iām sorry for adding to that. I come here because I am curious and love to exchange ideas and perspectives. Also, wondering if I can find someone that listens to the concerns I have as well as understanding my current experience in the church. I am a struggling Catholic and really want my kids to find a home in the church when they grow up. I honestly donāt see that happening. I think I am entering a āsafeā thread and then get wrapped up in the negativity. I do notice quite a bit of that here in general. It is hard not to get sucked into the vortex.
I am going to pray for wisdom to know where to enter discussions and where to exercise self control. I recently read a poll of why people leave the christian church in general. One of the top ten was because, āthe way christians treat each other online.ā Wow, that says a lot. I am going to try to stick to online places to sort things out where my weaknesses arenāt so triggered. It feels like a den of lions here. They are ready to pounce on you if you donāt immediately admit you give full obedience to Rome. The spiritual life is a complex journey. We need to give people room to grow and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. Our protestant brothers and sisters bring so many gifts to the Body of Christ. For that I am grateful. We can definitely learn a lot from them. Likewise, they can learn from us.
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GKC
Guest
I fear the changes of heart I have seen, over the past 50 years. Hence, I am in the Continuum. But that wasnāt the point of my question to EC. I wanted to stress that the words came from a Lutheran source, representing a Lutheran viewpoint, and not necessarily a universal one at that.
GKC
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PRmerger
Guest
Yeah. And Iād like to know how many Christian denominations there are.
Iāve been asking someone to give me a quote and the source to back it up, but so far no one has been able to answer.
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PRmerger
Guest
I think that is eminently foolish.
Abusus non tollitu usum.
Why leave a hospital because people arenāt taking the medicine? People should leave because the medicine is poisonous.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Just a wee correction.
The Catholic Church is not Roman.
There are dozens of rites in the Catholic Church, and the Latin, or Roman rite, is just one of them.
The Church is Catholic, and is comprised of dozens of sui juris different cultural components, only one of them Latin. The Latin rite happens to be the largest, and the most known.
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GKC
Guest
I have no idea. But the usual figures cited, which grow (and there is a reason why they grow) and currently seem to be given as around 30-35 thousand, are derived ultimately from internet chaining citations derived from a misunderstanding of a particular academic group who compile statistics on world religion, and use an odd method, in places, to do so. I long ago gave up trying to bring any perspective to the subject.
GKC
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PRmerger
Guest
I think that while that original source was indeed flawed, it (30-35 thousand) is simply a common sense answer, when one estimates the number of mainline denominations.
In fact, I think it is wayyyy underestimated when one considers that almost every street, in every city, in every state, in every country has a church like this which is not in any mainline denomination:
http://thinkchristian.reframemedia.com/images/articles/cathedral.jpg
Thus, when one counts these churches, which belong to no one save the individual who started it (leaving another church because he didnāt believe that fallible pastor was interpreting the Bible the way he understood it. And this fallible pastor probably left his previous church for the same reason. All the fruit of this paradigm that says that one can read the Bible any way he wishes and come to his own conclusions.) the number of Protestant denominations is probably in the millions. Millions!
So I think it is quite a generous concession whenever I use the estimate of tens of thousands. Itās probably actually closer to millions of Protestant denominations.
At any rate, even if itās 199 denominations, it still is a testament to the fact that the Bible cannot be interpreted on its own, without the lens of the faith which gave us this Bible. Otherwise, what one gets is each individual thinking that he can read the Bible and get his own doctrine from it.
- Status