What are the reasons I should (or shouldn't) become Catholic?

[mercygate]

Quote Charlie: “Do you think God will ever call someone to start up a new Church?”

I believe that sometimes God allows us to be in less than perfect places for time to prepare us to serve Him.

As I look back on my life, I can see how God has used all experiences in my life, good and bad, to work together toward His good and perfect will.

Yes, we will make mistakes and at times may be fooled, but if we are truly seeking God, He will not let us down. God always keeps His word.

And if someone chooses a church because that church comforts him/her in their sin, that is their choice. If that person is seeking to justify their behavior, then they have no one to blame but themslves for being deceived.

But, if that person is truly seeking God, then God will not let their time in that psuedo church be wasted, and will in His timing (which is always perfect) bring them out of that false church and into the light.

That person, for awhile, will feel the time was wasted. But as God begins to use them according to His will, they will be thankful because they will see how God uses even our mistakes to bring about good.

As a Convert to Catholicism, looking back, I see each station on the way as part of my Conversion. I entered the Episcopal Church coming out of a born-again-Bible-only tradition. The Episcopal Church permitted me to “up-Church” in minor increments over a period of years until one day I realized that in order to be an honest man, I HAD to become Catholic.

I will be forever grateful to the Episcopal Church for that. But those were the days when Episcopalians were still committed to the Gospel on its own terms.

 

[boppaid]

The sinner hanging next to Jesus did what Catholics do, confessed his sins directly, humbly, contritely and outwardly to Jesus…as Catholics do in the Confessional to Jesus’ representatives on Earth. It obviously took a WORK for the man to do this. He didn’t just hang there in faith and Jesus looked at him and said what he said. It took the initiative of the sinner’s part and ACTION. He didn’t merely say the “sinner’s prayer” and then think, “hey, now I’m good to go”. Yet again…faith without works is DEAD.

Well, in fairness, I don’t know any protestants that merely say the sinner’s prayer and think they’re good to go. Not to say those people don’t exist, but the protestants I know (mostly Baptist & Pentecostal) would be appalled at that idea.

And, if you call faith a work, then yes, the thief performed a work. However, I do agree that the remorse was fruit of his new faith. If I don’t have faith in Christ and all He has done, why on earth would I feel remoursefull?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

What interpretation does your church give to this, speaking of believers or unbelievers???

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully AFTER WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEGE OF THE TRUTH *, there NO LONGER REMAINS A SACRIFICE FOR SINS [so much for always saved]…26 how much worse punishments do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE CONVENANT BY WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED A COMMON THING, and insulted the Spirit of grace.
[ditto]

I Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

And Uzzah, you still haven’t addressed the question. The children of Israel didn’t dare rush up the mountain to get the Old Covenant (see Hebrews 12:18-21). Why do you think it reasonable to rush up and bite and chunk out of the Living God?*

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Paul started on handful in the name of Christ all over the place…In his journeys.

Read Galatians (2.1-2)? Acts 15.2?

He did found churches, but only in the CHURCH. They were not free to go there own way (like Corinth (I 1:10)

 

[Isa_Almisry]

You quoted some text I need your interpretation first!
And it was a far cry from an answer to what should be an easy question.

My mistake, I should have known not to give meat when milk was needed.

So why didn’t they rush the Lord and put Him in a pot?

As I said, they, unlike you obviously, read and understood the OT, and how the Children of Israel feared to go anywhere near the mountain, just for a fingerprint of God on tablets of stone, which made Moses’ face shine that he had to veil himself so they could look at him.

They learned from the example of Uzzah.

When they saw the Lord transfigured on Tabor they fell down on their faces. You I suppose would keep staring: btw do you stare at the sun? Solar eclipses?

When St. Mary Magdelene, Apostle to the Apostles of the Resurrection, held the feet of the risen Lord He said “Don’t cling to me,” I’m sure you fault her for not continued to hold on. You probably would have tackled Him down.

And in the story of St Thomas, a detail overlooked is that although the Lord commanded him to stick his fingers in, the Gospel DOES NOT SAY ST THOMAS DID SO, just that he declared “My Lord and My God!” You I take it would have gone right in the pierced side and probably rumaged around to see what you could pick out. Clean Him like a fish?

When the Apostles did venture out to be bold, the results, well…St Peter asked to be commanded to walk on water, and when he did, his faith failed him and he acted like a rock (your signature reminds me of this story).

The Gospels constantly show how the Apostles didn’t understand, approached the Lord with fear and awe, didn’t get what He was saying until the Resurrection, etc…but they persevered that the Lord might make them fishers of men.

But I doubt you understand that.

The easy answer to your “easy” question:

they weren’t fools.

 

[eliasaph99]

Well, in fairness, I don’t know any protestants that merely say the sinner’s prayer and think they’re good to go. Not to say those people don’t exist, but the protestants I know (mostly Baptist & Pentecostal) would be appalled at that idea.

And, if you call faith a work, then yes, the thief performed a work. However, I do agree that the remorse was fruit of his new faith. If I don’t have faith in Christ and all He has done, why on earth would I feel remoursefull?

You may feel remorseful because of the natural law, which has impressed upon your heart the wrong of what you’ve done. It is easily discoverable by the logic of the simplest of minds that stealing is wrong.

In this particular case, the man was likely a Jew. Surely we all know that Jewish law proscribes stealing. Remorse may come as a result of that.

Your suggestion that a person will not feel remorse for a basic crime unless they are Christian or leaning towards Christianity is somewhat absurd. Although I’m sure there have been some minor cults in history which taught that stealing is acceptable, no major religion teaches that. I would expect that the vast majority of people worldwide would feel remorse or guilt over stealing.

Certainly if they were caught, they would feel remorse, whether they believed it was wrong or not, especially if they had been crucified for it.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Hi myfavoritmartin,

Paul? You mean the one in the bible who had a visionary encounter with the risen Jesus (Acts 9:5)?

A visionary encounter??

 

[mercygate]

A visionary encounter??

Touche. Technically it was an auditory encounter. He did not “see” the Lord but attests only to hearing him. I think the bottom line is the same: He encountered the Risen Lord but not as flesh and bone as the “eyewitnesses” had. In fact, in order to validate the appearance, Ananias receives a corroborating vision – again, not described as a flesh-and-bone experience but as a vision. Perhaps that is why Paul’s experience is also described as a vision.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

My mistake, I should have known not to give meat when milk was needed.

So why didn’t they rush the Lord and put Him in a pot?

As I said, they, unlike you obviously, read and understood the OT, and how the Children of Israel feared to go anywhere near the mountain, just for a fingerprint of God on tablets of stone, which made Moses’ face shine that he had to veil himself so they could look at him.

Are you suggesting, these people present in John 6 recognised Him as God and Savior?

The easy answer to your “easy” question:

they weren’t fools.

You know this how?
If they weren’t fools and they understood it literal cuz they was smart…Why not guarantee eternity???
You keep coping out of answering because you can’t answer as you call me “a fools question”

If you can’t answer a fools question, where does that leave you?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Touche. Technically it was an auditory encounter. He did not “see” the Lord but attests only to hearing him. I think the bottom line is the same: He encountered the Risen Lord but not as flesh and bone as the “eyewitnesses” had. In fact, in order to validate the appearance, Ananias receives a corroborating vision – again, not described as a flesh-and-bone experience but as a vision. Perhaps that is why Paul’s experience is also described as a vision.

1 Corinthians 9:1, would seem to indicate you are wrong on this.
You seem to be speculating on an awful lot. furthermore in 1st corinthians he also confiirms that all of the apostles had seen the risen Lord, and in another spot in the text he confirms he is an apostle no less than the other super apostles…So i am not sure where you are getting this information.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I’m curious as to what are the reasons that I should or shouldn’t become Catholic in your opinions.

Reasons for being a Catholic:

1. If you believe the Bible.
2. If fellowships appeal to you.
3. If rituals & traditions appeal to you.

Reasons for NOT becoming a Catholic.

1. Half of the religion is based on outdated traditions that often dont make a lot of sense.
2. Half of the religion is based on the bible, a book that is supposedly inspired by the divine and yet had nothing extraordinary to show for it. Rather it is filled with many problems that plague many christians (catholics among them) today.
3. You will be compelled to spend some of your time and money on Catholicism’s many rituals and practices.
4. You will acquire an ‘us against them’ & ‘holier than thou’ attitude.
5. You will be associated with a religious group that ranks with Islam as the most violent in history.

• In summary, you will pay too much for some baseless and sometimes senseless promises.

I am a simple Theist too. I believe in God without associating with any religion.

 

[mercygate]

1 Corinthians 9:1, would seem to indicate you are wrong on this.
You seem to be speculating on an awful lot. furthermore in 1st corinthians he also confiirms that all of the apostles had seen the risen Lord, and in another spot in the text he confirms he is an apostle no less than the other super apostles…So i am not sure where you are getting this information.

Very nice catch! :tiphat:

But Paul does not come on the scene until a couple of years after the Resurrection appearances and while Paul says he has “seen” the Lord, it was apparently different from the way in which the 11-plus others knew him – those who “handled” him during the 40 days preceding the Ascension.

Although Paul is definitely an Apostle, he is not and never can be one of the “eyewitnesses” who (as Peter says) "went about with us “beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us.”

An Apostle is “one who is sent” – it is a twofold calling: both from the Lord and by the Apostolic (sending) Church. Paul had both the Lord’s own calling and the divinely appointed, independent corroboration of Ananias as well as the testimony of Barnabas by which the Jerusalem Church affirmed his ministry.

A Catholic view of this would be that authentic Apostolic ministry may be exercised by those who did not personally walk with the Lord during his earthly life as long as they are in communion with the Apostles who were.

 

[mercygate]

Reasons for being a Catholic:

1. If you believe the Bible.
2. If fellowships appeal to you.
3. If rituals & traditions appeal to you.

Reasons for NOT becoming a Catholic.

1. Half of the religion is based on outdated traditions that often dont make a lot of sense.
2. Half of the religion is based on the bible, a book that is supposedly inspired by the divine and yet had nothing extraordinary to show for it. Rather it is filled with many problems that plague many christians (catholics among them) today.
3. You will be compelled to spend some of your time and money on Catholicism’s many rituals and practices.
4. You will acquire an ‘us against them’ & ‘holier than thou’ attitude.
5. You will be associated with a religious group that ranks with Islam as the most violent in history.

• In summary, you will pay too much for some baseless and sometimes senseless promises.

I am a simple Theist too. I believe in God without associating with any religion.

Hmmm. Let me guess: you haven’t much actual knowledge of Catholicism, have you?

I have never spent a nickel on a “Catholic ritual.”

I have never been plagued by the supposed “problems” of Scripture.

I have never known anybody use the term “holier than thou” except people who consider themselves to be superior to those whom they are accusing of this fault.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Hmmm. Let me guess: you haven’t much actual knowledge of Catholicism, have you?

I was a Catholic. I have enough knowledge of it to support my points above.

I have never spent a nickel on a “Catholic ritual.”

Then its either that you have little idea of what a ritual is or you have never made monitary contributions during the Ceremony of the Mass.

I have never been plagued by the supposed “problems” of Scripture.

Not yet.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Reasons for being a Catholic:

1. If you believe the Bible.
2. If fellowships appeal to you.
3. If rituals & traditions appeal to you.

There is more reason to be Catholic. There is Real Presence, Valid Apostolic Sucession.

Reasons for NOT becoming a Catholic.

1. Half of the religion is based on outdated traditions that often dont make a lot of sense.

They are NOT outdated. They are necessary to lead men to holy lives. The core of Catholicism is the love of God, love of neighbor. In the moral teachings of the Catholic Church, we have a moral duty to do what is righteous in God’s eye. We are duty to obey the Ten Commandments.

These laws are not outdated rather man ignore God’s Church and him.

1. Half of the religion is based on the bible, a book that is supposedly inspired by the divine and yet had nothing extraordinary to show for it. Rather it is filled with many problems that plague many christians (catholics among them) today.

The Catholic Church isn’t base on a Bible. It is base on Magisterial authority, Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. In fact Sacred Scripture is part of the oral tradition of the Church. It was the Catholic who made the NT Canonical.

You say Christianity is plague with problems. How do you respond to Catholic and other Non-Catholic Christians who responded to natural disaster, especially those charity organization, or the Pope’s call end war in Iraq.

1. You will be compelled to spend some of your time and money on Catholicism’s many rituals and practices.

Monetary offerings are donations. You can donate any amount of money based on. Most devote Catholics spend their time going to Daily Mass and sometimes if possible go to Eucharistic Adoration worshipping Jesus.

1. You will acquire an ‘us against them’ & ‘holier than thou’ attitude.

The Church teaches that we are to following God’s commandments than man.

1. You will be associated with a religious group that ranks with Islam as the most violent in history.

Christianity is religion of love of neighbor. Jesus also preached love enemy. A devote Christian put this into practice. I hardly think Christian is violent religion compared to Islam.

The Crusades is a means to defend Christianity in Middle East. If there were no Crusade you would be Muslim today. There were unholy men but the Church does not condemn attacking the innocent.

In summary, you will pay too much for some baseless and sometimes senseless promises.

Your opinions are very much out of ignorant of Christian history.

I am a simple Theist too. I believe in God without associating with any religion.

Not so. God establish a Covenant with the Jews then establish a new Covenant with his Own Son Jesus Christ and Jesus establish a Church upon Peter.

 

[mercygate]

I was a Catholic.

Not by any credible definition.

Then its either that you have little idea of what a ritual is or you have never made monitary contributions during the Ceremony of the Mass.

Well, I was educated as an Episcopal priest, so I pass the “idea of what a ritual is” test. Monetary contributions? You trivialize the concept of stewardship by reducing it to “paying for rituals.”

Not yet.

Right. Studying Scripture and theology in depth for decades. No “problem” of Scripture is bigger than the “problem” of skepticism.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Not by any credible definition.

You are jumping to conclusions.

Well, I was educated as an Episcopal priest, so I pass the “idea of what a ritual is” test. Monetary contributions? You trivialize the concept of stewardship by reducing it to “paying for rituals.”

However you want to interpret it, the point remains that some of his time & money would be spent on Catholicism.

Right. Studying Scripture and theology in depth for decades. No “problem” of Scripture is bigger than the “problem” of skepticism.

The fact remains that many catholics are apologizing for the bible.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The fact remains that many catholics are apologizing for the bible.

Apologizing? Explain yourself.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Very nice catch! :tiphat:

But Paul does not come on the scene until a couple of years after the Resurrection appearances and while Paul says he has “seen” the Lord, it was apparently different from the way in which the 11-plus others knew him – those who “handled” him during the 40 days preceding the Ascension.

Yes, he saw Christ after He was complete, ( so pure and bright was HE, Paul was blinded) He may not have walked with Christ but this is where he (Paul) was given his divine revelation, One on one (with Christ)

 

[AgnosTheist]

There is more reason to be Catholic. There is Real Presence, Valid Apostolic Sucession.

much of those are matters of faith. by the time a person believes any of them, he/she is already on the way onto becoming a catholic.

They are NOT outdated. They are necessary to lead men to holy lives. The core of Catholicism is the love of God, love of neighbor. In the moral teachings of the Catholic Church, we have a moral duty to do what is righteous in God’s eye. We are duty to obey the Ten Commandments.

For the faithful, it is not. But for the Neutral observer, things like Celibacy are.

The Catholic Church isn’t base on a Bible. It is base on Magisterial authority, Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. In fact Sacred Scripture is part of the oral tradition of the Church. It was the Catholic who made the NT Canonical.

i gave two halves.

You say Christianity is plague with problems. How do you respond to Catholic and other Non-Catholic Christians who responded to natural disaster, especially those charity organization, or the Pope’s call end war in Iraq.

i was referring to bible problems. contradictions, inconsistencies, moral dilemmas, violence, etc.

Monetary offerings are donations. You can donate any amount of money based on. Most devote Catholics spend their time going to Daily Mass and sometimes if possible go to Eucharistic Adoration worshipping Jesus.

of course. however you call, for whatever reason, there is still a parting with money.

Christianity is religion of love of neighbor. Jesus also preached love enemy. A devote Christian put this into practice. I hardly think Christian is violent religion compared to Islam.

I agree. But you dont really need christianity (catholicism) to be loving.

And I was referring to the past. I commend the catholic church for mellowing down and becoming what a Religion of Peace should be.

The Crusades is a means to defend Christianity in Middle East.

I agree. Even I thank God for the Crusades. But the inquistitions, conquistas, anti-semitism, etc.

Your opinions are very much out of ignorant of Christian history.

Dont judge me (or my opinions) just yet, I just got here. I promise you, I am quite knowledgable on many things that will matter on this board.