Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
I’ll check back with you tomorrow.
What are the reasons I should (or shouldn't) become Catholic?
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AgnosTheist
Guest
guys, have a great weekend. cya all next week. 
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
Did you hear God talking to you over the week-end?guys, have a great weekend. cya all next week.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
yes, he said to each his own. the only ethics that matters is the golden rule.
J
jpasta
Guest
Are you sure he said that? And it wasn’t your brain playing tricks on you?
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Im as sure as the Apostle Paul, Prophet Mohammad, Buddha & Joseph Smith.Are you sure he said that? And it wasn’t your brain playing tricks on you?
J
jpasta
Guest
Well I can’t argue with that!Im as sure as the Apostle Paul, Prophet Mohammad, Buddha & Joseph Smith.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Wow, see what happens when you listen? Keep listening, you’ll learn more.
As in “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” — Jesus (c. 5 B.C. - A.D. 32 ) in the Gospels, Matthew 7:12, Matthew 22:39, Luke 6:31, Luke 10:27
“Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the lord.” — Torah Leviticus 19:18
“When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the lord your God.” — Torah Leviticus 19:33-34
C
Contarini
Guest
I think it’s a historical narrative accurately (in essentials) describing what Samuel said to Saul, what Saul did, etc. I do not think that it can necessarily be taken as a direct and unfiltered record of what God’s will was in that situation. You need to read this story in the light of chaps. 8-9, dealing with the institution of the monarchy. Clearly God’s problem with monarchy was that a monarch would come to love his own position and power and wealth, rather than simply being an instrument of God’s will. That is what is happening here. Rather than fighting a holy war, Saul is waging the kind of war that other kings of that time waged–ruthlessly killing his enemies (note that he doesn’t have any problem massacring the women and children) and coming back with spoils and booty that enhance his prestige. He’s turning into exactly what Samuel warned about–a “king like all the others” who takes the place of God for his people.
But warranted given your posts.hey ‘poison’ is a very strong word.
You can’t be certain of anything. I’m not telling you to give up being an “agnostic” in the literal sense, only in the classic Huxleyan sense. In other words, of course we can’t be 100% rationally certain of matters of faith. But in the end we have to choose what to believe. Not choosing is choosing. Being an “AgnosTheist” is a choice, not simply abstinence from choice. (See William James, The Will to Believe–it’s a much more persuasive reworking of “Pascal’s Wager.”)
As in cultural background, perspective, motivation (including bias), etc. The Christian belief is that these human factors do not prevent God’s truth from being transmitted. And admittedly this is an act of faith, not something we can prove.
Well, I would take issue with your rather reductionistic view of Catholic Tradition, which involves more than a few clergy in the Vatican–it involves little old ladies praying the Rosary, theologians arguing over obscure Latin terms, hermits meditating in the forest. . . . only in the context of the organic life of the whole Body does Scripture act as Scripture.
I do not find the Qur’an to be particularly simple and direct, and insofar as it is I find this to be a disadvantage compared to Scripture. But to each his own, I guess!
Well, first and foremost because it is what we have, and it has been delivered to me as the Word of God. For a host of reasons–the beauty and power of Scripture itself and the Christian faith in general, the change the Gospel has wrought in human lives and in societies, the historical evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus, the amazing anomaly of a small Ancient Near Eastern nation producing something like the Old Testament, and many others–I choose to believe that this tradition is true. It’s what I have. I haven’t seen a better option. Again, simply refusing to commit oneself must be judged as an option in and of itself, rather than being treated as the default. Life is too short for that.Can you explain why the current state of the bible makes more sense than my ‘assumptions’.
In Christ,
Edwin
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Amen to that, sister!
po18guy
Well-known member
Where’d that rule come from, dude? See, He did speak to you!
May the peace of He who said that be with you.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
1 Kings 19:11-13
11
Then the LORD said, “Go outside and stand on the mountain before the LORD; the LORD will be passing by.” A strong and heavy wind was rending the mountains and crushing rocks before the LORD–but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake–but the LORD was not in the earthquake.
12
After the earthquake there was fire–but the LORD was not in the fire. After the fire there was a tiny whispering sound.
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When he heard this, Elijah hid his face in his cloak and went and stood at the entrance of the cave. A voice said to him, “Agnos, I mean, Elijah, why are you here?”
:bowdown:
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Of course, technically not even the findings of science can be 100% certain. No Im not asking for absolute certainty. I just want to be ‘certain enough’. I cant get that with the bible.
Thats true, nobody said it wasnt.
God can reveal himself through human culture and imagination without the imperfections, moral problems & obscurities that plaques the bible.
its still the papal office who clears all the rules.
the point is that its simple and direct enough that the muslims (99%) are not divided on matters of doctrine. Of course it has its disadvantages. There is nothing but good for the bible to state these directly:
- Jesus is God
- God is a trinity of 3 persons…the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
- Peter is the foundation of the church.
- The church must be governed by the apostolic succession.
- Peter appointed a linus as his apostolic successor.
- The Apostolic Successor is infallible in matters of faith and morals.
- The violence of the old testament is no longer applicable.
there is no other book on earth that caused wars just because people disagreed on what it says. it was also open to interpretation of racisms and witch hunts. It was also partly responsible for creating that war-obsessed religion called islam. Were all those stuff you mentioned worth all trouble? I dont think so.
are you serious???
i’m not sure what you are referring to here.
anyway i cant see how those stuff you cannot take place if i take the bible and edit out all the harmful and obscure stuff in it.
po18guy
Well-known member
Not even cryogenics can give you eternal life. Science cannot stop the aging process. Cloning just makes another old you. Christ makes all things new. Need something you can touch? The Eucharist.
He sent Jesus Christ, who* is* this revelation.
If no one is in charge, everyone is in charge. Chaos-33,000 and counting denominations.
Sunnis and Shiites might dispute this.
You are at risk of making perfect sense here…:bigyikes:
“There will be wars and rumors of wars, but all of this must come to pass” No book has ever prevented a war, as this one has, by its very belief in love and peace. Which war? The ones that didn’t occur. The cold war remained cold. The Cuban missle crisis did not erupt. Historians can tell you of other non-wars. They just can’t explain why. We know why.
Not even secular Roman or religious Jewish authorities published anything durable to the contrary. Wouldn’t the New York Times have published it front page if there was?are you serious???
The tiny, perennially defeated, exiled, destroyed and reconstituted nation of Israel.
If you reject part of God (His word), you reject all of him.
Christ’s peace.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Been there. After all that experience i can honestly say that Jesus was just a notch higher than Santa Claus in making me a new person.
i blame that on that error-ridden bible. look at muslims, nobody is in charge and yet there is very little fragmentation.
po18guy
Well-known member
Well, for some reason, you’re still here…He’s not finished with you yet.
Which bible are you reading? And never mind the Muslim holy book, it’s the fear in their countries that unites.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
anything that has a new testament in it.
well muslims have been living in the west in the last 50 years, and theres still no fragmentation on core beliefs.
my friend, its not leadership that unites a point of view, its the clarity of the instruction manual.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
You think the little old ladies saying their Rosaries care about Theology? They listen to Scripture at mass, and let the Theologian help them understand when he gives his homily.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Some do. Ive seen some old catholic ladies convert to another sect of christianity.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Little old ladies convert to other religions??? The numbers must be miniscule. Anyway, how does this relate to the idea that you’re WRONG, yes, you are WRONG, about unity being due to the clarity of the instruction manual.
Clearly unity is about the Truth, we we believe the leadership of the CC represents Truth.
I don’t understand advanced Chemistry, I will never read a Chemistry book again, but the facts of Chemistry are true, and I trust a Scientist (ie a leader) to simplify it for me.
Now, read, listen, hold that remark (try saying a Hail Mary). Then give me some insight on why I am wrong.
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