What are the *True Facts* Regarding the Abortion-Approving Nun?

[kimmielittle]

What about murder of the soul? I think priestly sexual abuse has done exactly that to many children and turned them away from God forever. In the hierarchy of things, that is far more serious than the murder of just the body.

I’m not trying to make lighter of a grave injustice.

But any injustice can allow / make one turn from God.

The Soul, after all, is an individuals responsibility.

 

[Rence]

I don’t see anything here that does not apply just as much to a one day old baby.

And actually, if we’re going to be honest here, the unborn are less vulnerable than an one day old. However, if one wants to end the life of either, it’s easy to get both. But OTOH you have to get through the woman to get to the fetus, who has that added protection. Once born there is no shelter for the day old.

So yeah, it has to be something more, I agree. I have my own ideas of what it is, but I’ll wait and see what the Church has to offer.

 

[catharina]

When a person has been abused…they no longer trust. That is not pop psychology. When the “trust” is betrayed…the cause and affect leaves the person vunerable for “evil”. The abuser…has a hand in killing the soul…don’t kid yourself, honey.

Well, “honey” -
having worked with abused children for more than 40 yrs,
having pursued Theology and Psychology studies with equal time/interest,
I’ll simply tell you again: You’re wrong.

Yeah - sounds apt - “soul murder” - but it’s a crock.
God doesn’t allow soul murder within His Church.
One must engage with Satan for that outcome.

You personal anger doesn’t make a case.

 

[catharina]

And actually, if we’re going to be honest here, the unborn are less vulnerable than an one day old. However, if one wants to end the life of either, it’s easy to get both. But OTOH you have to get through the woman to get to the fetus, who has that added protection. Once born there is no shelter for the day old.

So yeah, it has to be something more, I agree. I have my own ideas of what it is, but I’ll wait and see what the Church has to offer.

Once born, an infant might find protection from a murderous mother.
Inside the mother, the infant is at her mercy, dependent on her whims.

 

[kimmielittle]

When a person has been abused…they no longer trust. That is not pop psychology. When the “trust” is betrayed…the cause and affect leaves the person vunerable for “evil”. The abuser…has a hand in killing the soul…don’t kid yourself, honey.

Just so you realize you aren’t alone…but not all believe this way

 

[Rence]

Hope you can remember that Jesus too protected children from His disciples.
The issue there was their disrespect and harshness -
but Jesus demonstrated that abusive actions can arise among any folks.

I’m sorry, and with all due respect, I remember it very well, which is why I am believing more and more that the present day “disciples of Jesus” are not what he intended when he was here physically to protect children from his disciples.

Yes, abusive actions can arise among any folks, even those who are supposed to be taking cues from the Holy Spirit, because all folks are mere humans.

 

[catharina]

Just so you realize you aren’t alone…but not all believe this way

Reminding both of you,
God does not allow the “power” of soul killing to man.
To put it simply, you’re wrong. Trendy, but wrong.

 

[kimmielittle]

Reminding both of you,
God does not allow the “power” of soul killing to man.
To put it simply, you’re wrong. Trendy, but wrong.

I’m sorry,maybe I didn’t make myself clear…I don’t agree with her.

My Soul is my responsibility…no matter what injustice befalls.

If I turn away from God…It is my fault

 

[Rence]

When a person has been abused…they no longer trust. That is not pop psychology. When the “trust” is betrayed…the cause and affect leaves the person vunerable for “evil”. The abuser…has a hand in killing the soul…don’t kid yourself, honey.

What about the capacity for trust for the family of the abused? Or those who are learning about the constant abuses and the opportunities given for more abuses? I think the public outcry for accountibility and cessation of abuses speaks loud and clear.

Remember Julianna, in the ‘good ol days’ people turned a blind eye. These are the ones whose “blind” faith won’t falter.

But today, the public is demanding accountability. Getting that accountibility might save their faith, which is why we’re just now seeing priests being punished. But I feel for those with the added spiritual turmoil of not being helped after they’ve been so injured. And yes, it does have a negative effect on the soul. I don’t doubt it. I can’t see how it wouldn’t.

 

[catharina]

I’m sorry,maybe I didn’t make myself clear…I don’t agree with her.

My Soul is my responsibility…no matter what injustice befalls.

If I turn away from God…It is my fault

Yes. I misunderstood your point.

 

[catharina]

What about the capacity for trust for the family of the abused? Or those who are learning about the constant abuses and the opportunities given for more abuses? I think the public outcry for accountibility and cessation of abuses speaks loud and clear.

Remember Julianna, in the ‘good ol days’ people turned a blind eye. These are the ones whose “blind” faith won’t falter.

But today, the public is demanding accountability. Getting that accountibility might save their faith, which is why we’re just now seeing priests being punished. But I feel for those with the added spiritual turmoil of not being helped after they’ve been so injured. And yes, it does have a negative effect on the soul. I don’t doubt it. I can’t see how it wouldn’t.

Then I guess you doubt the Church teachings and Scripture.
Again, Matthew 10 states:

"28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."

Almighty God holds our souls as sacrosanct.
We can choose wrong.
We cannot be taken captive and “killed” by wrong.

 

[Julianna]

Well, “honey” -
having worked with abused children for more than 40 yrs,
having pursued Theology and Psychology studies with equal time/interest,
I’ll simply tell you again: You’re wrong.

Yeah - sounds apt - “soul murder” - but it’s a crock.
God doesn’t allow soul murder within His Church.
One must engage with Satan for that outcome.

You personal anger doesn’t make a case.

Maybe it’s just me…but I don’t give “evil” any press

 

[Julianna]

Well, “honey” -
having worked with abused children for more than 40 yrs,
having pursued Theology and Psychology studies with equal time/interest,
I’ll simply tell you again: You’re wrong.

Yeah - sounds apt - “soul murder” - but it’s a crock.
God doesn’t allow soul murder within His Church.
One must engage with Satan for that outcome.

You personal anger doesn’t make a case.

Can I say “kill the spirit of the person”…or will come at with your iron fist again

Having worked with abused children, surely you would know that something inside of them “dies”…and they are easy prey for “evil” because evil has been done on them? Especially in a Church setting, where the abuser is “supposedly a man or woman of God”.

 

[momor]

Then I guess you doubt the Church teachings and Scripture.
Again, Matthew 10 states:

"28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."

Almighty God holds our souls as sacrosanct.
We can choose wrong.
We cannot be taken captive and “killed” by wrong.

umm…I’m no biblical scholar but I think that passage is referring to God as the destroyer, not satan. Satan can tempt but he can’t condemn.

 

[momor]

Can I say “kill the spirit of the person”……or will come at with your iron fist again

Having worked with abused children, surely you would know that something inside of them “dies”…and they are easy prey for “evil” because evil has been done on them? Especially in a Church setting, where the abuser is “supposedly a man or woman of God”.

That was my meaning as well when I wrote murder of the soul. I never thought it would be interpreted any other way.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Well, “honey” -
having worked with abused children for more than 40 yrs,
having pursued Theology and Psychology studies with equal time/interest,
I’ll simply tell you again: You’re wrong.

Yeah - sounds apt - “soul murder” - but it’s a crock.
God doesn’t allow soul murder within His Church.
One must engage with Satan for that outcome.

You personal anger doesn’t make a case.

catharina, your continuing to stylize your own personal statements as *ex-cathedra *doesn’t work. Julianna was simply using a figure of speech – imagery, if you will, to concretize the effect on a young, vulnerable, innocent soul who has suffered what can be experienced as irreparable harm at the hands of a person to whom he or she has entrusted his or her soul for safe-keeping, a person who is charged with acting *in persona Christi. * This authority figure is one with whom the child associates his very relationship with God, even though the child understands full well this is not God himself.

I know several people who, despite effort, prayer, counseling (inside and outside the Church) have not been able to reconcile their own rape or other sexual abuse by clergy with a protective God. It’s a level more dangerous than rape/abuse by someone without a religious title. In that sense, the effects are felt as “soul-killing.” I think that’s all that Julianna meant to say.

 

[catharina]

All equally interesting, I’m sure. However a man must willfully turn away from God and follow the godless one to suffer eternal death, the death of a soul.

Here Pope Pius XII brings this to the attention of the church,
in his encyclical AD SINARUM GENTEM, published OCTOBER 7, 1954,
at a time when I was eight yrs-old. Maybe I remember it as a brand-new thing. (?)

“27. On the other hand, We wish to congratulate repeatedly those who, suffering severe difficulties, have been outstanding in their loyalty to God and to the Catholic Church, and so have been “counted worthy to suffer disgrace for the name of Jesus” (Acts 5. 41). With a paternal heart We encourage them to continue brave and intrepid along the road they have taken, keeping in mind the words of Jesus Christ: “And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather be afraid of him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell . . . But as for you, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Therefore do not be afraid . . . Therefore everyone who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I in turn will disown him before my Father in heaven” (Matt. 10. 28, 30-33).”

papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12SINAR.HTM

If you willingly follow Satan, you will spend eternity with Satan.

Your soul will, indeed, be dead to God and to His mercy and grace.

 

[catharina]

catharina, your continuing to stylize your own personal statements as *ex-cathedra *doesn’t work. Julianna was simply using a figure of speech – imagery, if you will, to concretize the effect on a young, vulnerable, innocent soul who has suffered what can be experienced as irreparable harm at the hands of a person to whom he or she has entrusted his or her soul for safe-keeping, a person who is charged with acting *in persona Christi. * This authority figure is one with whom the child associates his very relationship with God, even though the child understands full well this is not God himself.

I know several people who, despite effort, prayer, counseling (inside and outside the Church) have not been able to reconcile their own rape or other sexual abuse by clergy with a protective God. It’s a level more dangerous than rape/abuse by someone without a religious title. In that sense, the effects are felt as “soul-killing.” I think that’s all that Julianna meant to say.

So you guess Julianna meant one thing and I guess she meant what she said. Odd.
Maybe you’re unaware that people actually attempt to teach this error to social workers,
psychologists and theologians. It’s not a “truth” or a metaphor. It’s an error.

If Julianna meant it as a metaphor, as “imagery,” perhaps she’ll say so.

 

[Julianna]

So you guess Julianna meant one thing and I guess she meant what she said. Odd.
Maybe you’re unaware that people actually attempt to teach this error to social workers,
psychologists and theologians. It’s not a “truth” or a metaphor. It’s an error.

If Julianna meant it as a metaphor, as “imagery,” perhaps she’ll say so.

Alas…I am without the gift of self expression in an eloquent way…

…in my little, no knowledge brain:blush:…soul killing and spirit killing are one in the same…go ahead tell me I’m wrong again…

 

[Rence]

Alas…I am without the gift of self expression in an eloquent way…

…in my little, no knowledge brain:blush:…soul killing and spirit killing are one in the same…go ahead tell me I’m wrong again…

Aww, I knew what you meant I think most people know that a rapist or molester can’t literally kill the spirit/soul of the person they terrorize, unless they kill that person too.

And I agree, sexual abuse does destroy/kills/gravely damages/devestates the spirit/soul.