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Denise1957
Guest
The quote that you reference doesn’t say anything about the OF.
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malphono
Guest
Oh yeah, I know that crowd. (I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts that every time they utter the words “the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass” the pitch increases with each word until the word “Mass” is all but screeched at the top of their lungs.) They’re not pleasant to deal with. I had my first dealings with them many years ago, (that bunch even thought Msgr Lefebvre was a screaming communist, so you can see what I was up against.).
Since that time, though, I very simply turn them off. On a few occasions I’ve had to tell various people to back off, as nicely as possible, but still firmly. Oh yes, they hate me, but at the same time they don’t much bother with me these days. I don’t go to the Usus Antiquior for their benefit (and in a Latin Church milieu I am strictly a Usus Antiquior person), or because I live in a 1950s time-warp, or because I in any way, shape, or form share their extreme right-wing politics (perish that thought), or anything else. I go for liturgical reasons. They’re not going to spoil things for me: it’s hard enough to fine the Usus Antiquior as it is, and I really don’t care what those people think of me.
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LoyalViews
Guest
You’re so fortunate to have the Usus Antiquior. I agree with you so very much. Some people who claim to be followers of Lefebvre go too, too, too far. They go further than Lefebvre did.
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Deo_Gratias42
Guest
Considering I am part of an FSSP Latin Mass Community and the SSPX actually have a church here too, I don’t know why these people are even here and not at the SSPX’s church.
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OraLabora
Guest
I don’t try to promote the EF, I try to promote the OF in the way it was intended to be, but I guess I’m using the same technique as you, as I belong to a schola that sings the propers and ordinary at OF Masses once a month and on special occasions. We also do funerals. We’d do a nuptial Mass if someone asked but so far no takers
We also do the LOTH in Gregorian chant, we’ve done Lauds and Vespers; we’re doing Vespers for Advent in December, and we usually do Lauds at the cathedral with the archbishop presiding on Holy Saturday. We’ve done a Mass with the archbishop as well, at a senior’s residence.
I’m also a member and director of the Gregorian Institute of Canada.
Incidentally we are also an all-male schola. We wrestled with this issue early on and decided to keep it all male.
The interesting thing is that we get tons of interest from very elderly Catholics who are very nostalgic and miss Gregorian chant, and from quite young Catholics who are extremely curious and intrigued by chant. There’s a lost generation in there (mostly people of my generation), the children of Vatican II. In our diocese the only Tridentine Masses are SSPX or sedevacantist. If there was a licit EF Mass it would be cool for our schola to sing for it.
We don’t do cassocks and surplices (we’ve tried to suggest it but it met with great resistance from some members) but we do have a dress code for Mass, black long-sleeve shirt and black trousers (myself, the music director and the treasurer are Benedictine oblates, hence black
)
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TrueLight
Guest
Do the Benedictine Oblates wear black? A group after my own heart.I don’t try to promote the EF, I try to promote the OF in the way it was intended to be, but I guess I’m using the same technique as you, as I belong to a schola that sings the propers and ordinary at OF Masses once a month and on special occasions. We also do funerals. We’d do a nuptial Mass if someone asked but so far no takers
We also do the LOTH in Gregorian chant, we’ve done Lauds and Vespers; we’re doing Vespers for Advent in December, and we usually do Lauds at the cathedral with the archbishop presiding on Holy Saturday. We’ve done a Mass with the archbishop as well, at a senior’s residence.
I’m also a member and director of the Gregorian Institute of Canada.
Incidentally we are also an all-male schola. We wrestled with this issue early on and decided to keep it all male.
The interesting thing is that we get tons of interest from very elderly Catholics who are very nostalgic and miss Gregorian chant, and from quite young Catholics who are extremely curious and intrigued by chant. There’s a lost generation in there (mostly people of my generation), the children of Vatican II. In our diocese the only Tridentine Masses are SSPX or sedevacantist. If there was a licit EF Mass it would be cool for our schola to sing for it.
We don’t do cassocks and surplices (we’ve tried to suggest it but it met with great resistance from some members) but we do have a dress code for Mass, black long-sleeve shirt and black trousers (myself, the music director and the treasurer are Benedictine oblates, hence black
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LightBound
Guest
I would say they are trying to get the FSSP parishioners over to the SSPX chapel; given the methods you described them using.
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djames99
Guest
Yes, your trying and that is all that can be expected. That’s my method also for now until I can think of other ways. Don’t be disappointed, be happy. Keep up the good work. 
Perhaps results are meant to bring fruit in the Holy Spirit’s timetable. Maybe after your excellent initiation, he now will work out what is needed for incentive.
What’s required now is prayer by all of us.
Perhaps results are meant to bring fruit in the Holy Spirit’s timetable. Maybe after your excellent initiation, he now will work out what is needed for incentive.What’s required now is prayer by all of us.
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PaulfromIowa
Guest
I would be very clear with the SSPX types that “I am a Catholic and I have no interest in schism.”
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Walking_Home
Guest
Report them to your Pastor. If need be – to your Bishop.
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OraLabora
Guest
Not really we dress in normal clothes, although the oblates of some monasteries wear these sort of black hooded short tunics. But our spiritual director does not want oblates to wear any specific “habit”, we wear our oblate’s pin instead.Do the Benedictine Oblates wear black? A group after my own heart.
That said I have a preference for black.
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Windmill
Guest
People are free to disagree how best to handle a schola. I strongly suggested an all-male group because I have seen many guys in the schola that cherish the fact that this is a “guy thing”. Too many things now are frowned upon if they are men-only (though, somehow, it seems to be perfectly fine if it’s women-only), as if it is inherently bad. On the contrary, I think it is healthy to have something that is just for guys.
My wife has her women’s book study, her Bunko Group, and her outtings to the local nail salon with her sister and girlfriends. She needs that time (especially since we have 4 boys and no girls (so far)). If I were to tell her that I really think she should let more guys in on her group, she’d look at me like I was crazy. Women relate to each other differently than they do to guys.
Now, in the case in point, I understand that there are positive dynamics in mixed groups, and that your goals to sing gregorian chant might not be realized if you restrict the membership to men only (not enough interest to form a stable group). However, I find that it is much like altar servers: having an all-male troop tends to attract more men once they see it is something for men only.
So, if you have the interest from enough guys, I’d recommend trying all men. If not, go mixed.
My wife has her women’s book study, her Bunko Group, and her outtings to the local nail salon with her sister and girlfriends. She needs that time (especially since we have 4 boys and no girls (so far)). If I were to tell her that I really think she should let more guys in on her group, she’d look at me like I was crazy. Women relate to each other differently than they do to guys.
Now, in the case in point, I understand that there are positive dynamics in mixed groups, and that your goals to sing gregorian chant might not be realized if you restrict the membership to men only (not enough interest to form a stable group). However, I find that it is much like altar servers: having an all-male troop tends to attract more men once they see it is something for men only.
So, if you have the interest from enough guys, I’d recommend trying all men. If not, go mixed.
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Seamus_L
Guest
That’s quite an impressive blog True Light. I really like your worldwide mass listings.
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corsair
Guest
In late 2005 I joined a Latin Mass group. We met once a month for a year. We started to gather things to host a Mass IF we could find a priest. In april of 2007, Fr. John Berg came to our group on a visit to our Archbishop. He asked us not to “riot” in the streets until late September. He said that things were moving in the right direction. You all know what happened in July of 2007 and then on September 14th.
During August of 2008 we recieved word that our Archbishop had invited the FSSP into the Diocese. So in October we welcomed Fr. Gerard Saguto, FSSP to the Diocese.
Locally in August of that same year, 2008, we were able to get a Dominican priest to come in to say a Dominican low Mass once a month. It was on a Monday evening, not the best time but at least something. The Dominican Masses lasted almost 4 years until the priest was transferred. We are now lucky enough to have 2 priests that alternate a monthly TLM on a Sunday afternoon. Our group has purchased all the necessary vestments, Altar hardware, books, missals and other necessities for the Traditional Latin Mass.
Looks like maybe in November we may celebrate a TLM in another parish. Two other communities have begun TLMs, Port Angeles and Bremerton.
Things move slowly but they are moving.
During August of 2008 we recieved word that our Archbishop had invited the FSSP into the Diocese. So in October we welcomed Fr. Gerard Saguto, FSSP to the Diocese.
Locally in August of that same year, 2008, we were able to get a Dominican priest to come in to say a Dominican low Mass once a month. It was on a Monday evening, not the best time but at least something. The Dominican Masses lasted almost 4 years until the priest was transferred. We are now lucky enough to have 2 priests that alternate a monthly TLM on a Sunday afternoon. Our group has purchased all the necessary vestments, Altar hardware, books, missals and other necessities for the Traditional Latin Mass.
Looks like maybe in November we may celebrate a TLM in another parish. Two other communities have begun TLMs, Port Angeles and Bremerton.
Things move slowly but they are moving.
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Rich_C
Guest
I actually discovered it still existed, not from the Internet from but a 2 x 3 inch advertisement in our diocese’s newspaper.
I mostly pray for its restoration at each Mass and on each rosary when I remember. I talk about it when it seems welcome.
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OraLabora
Guest
Our reason for going all-male was mostly musical, though undeniably the all-male camaraderie I think is a positive spin-off. Basically in a mixed group it’s hard to achieve a unity of voice, which is the aim of Gregorian chant. Women typically chant one octave higher than men and finding a dynamic range to suit both the men and women is difficult. Our first music director was a Benedictine monk who was the choirmaster at St-Benoît-du-Lac abbey in Quebec and one of the foremost experts on chant in Canada, and he insisted on all men as well.
That said, in the Gregorian Institute we have many member choirs and most are mixed. With a skilled music director, it is doable. You can also chant responsorially, with the men taking one side and the women the other.
However, I still prefer an all-male group since I’m male! One, because I’m lazy and it’s less work
and two, I agree there are few “men-only” activities left. It’s a different dynamic when a bunch of guys get together. We’ve taken some flack in the diocese for being men-only. Our reply is that nothing stops women from starting their own schola.
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ByzCathCantor
Guest
Forgive me for jumping in. I’ll start by saying that it is truly commendable that so many have decided to promote the EF by contributing to the sacred music tradition - seems like a great way of doing it!
Although I’m a “cradle” Eastern Catholic, I have recently become quite interested in learning more about the EF (I started a thread here a few hours ago regarding a video of a Pontifical High Mass I had found on YouTube, before I had noticed this one).
In terms of promoting the EF, perhaps a general and recommended approach would be to first promote general awareness. Although I have been to more than an occasional Roman Catholic Mass over the years, I was born weeks after Vatican II ended and I’m really only familiar with the OF from experience. I’m sure I am not alone among many Catholics, even those of the Latin Church.
We as human beings tend to stick the familiar and tend to fear the unknown. At first blush, the EF can seem quite different from the OF (hence, the fear factor). However, careful study will show otherwise. I only recently began to appreciate this while studying the EF as included in some hymnals that were recommended in a recent thread here on the CAF.
Just a thought: that is, try to help people first understand the form, without any judgmental contrasts, and help folks appreciate the form more fully.
Although I’m a “cradle” Eastern Catholic, I have recently become quite interested in learning more about the EF (I started a thread here a few hours ago regarding a video of a Pontifical High Mass I had found on YouTube, before I had noticed this one).
In terms of promoting the EF, perhaps a general and recommended approach would be to first promote general awareness. Although I have been to more than an occasional Roman Catholic Mass over the years, I was born weeks after Vatican II ended and I’m really only familiar with the OF from experience. I’m sure I am not alone among many Catholics, even those of the Latin Church.
We as human beings tend to stick the familiar and tend to fear the unknown. At first blush, the EF can seem quite different from the OF (hence, the fear factor). However, careful study will show otherwise. I only recently began to appreciate this while studying the EF as included in some hymnals that were recommended in a recent thread here on the CAF.
Just a thought: that is, try to help people first understand the form, without any judgmental contrasts, and help folks appreciate the form more fully.
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malphono
Guest
Yes sir, people are frequently afraid of the unknown, and for a lot of folks these days, the usus Antiquior is a total unknown since it was effectively suppressed in 1970, indults notwithstanding. These folks are often “won over” once they experience the EF.
There are other folks who were taught to fear (even hate) the Usus Antiquior by those who so readily embraced the “spirit of Vatican II” and all that goes with it. (They even anticipated the Novus Ordo: I vividly recall the goings-on after the 1965 Missal made its brief appearance, but I digress.) Sometimes these folks are likewise “won over” with experience, when they realize that the Usus Antiquior is not the horrid zombie they were taught it was.
OTOH, there are those who fear and hate the Usus Antiquior simply because it exists. For the most part, these are the so-called “teachers” in the above paragraph, and they (including some bishops) are just incorrigible. They are the diehards that will never accept the Usus Antiquior: “oh, it’s not (oy but how I hate the next two words …) relevant or meaningful”, etc etc. Well, maybe to them it’s not, but it is to others. The diehards are entitled to their opinion as long as they don’t continue to force their prejudice on the rest of the faithful.
What I can say to someone in the first two groups above is to try the Usus Antiquior a few times. Get a missal and do some online reading. Once the reality of what it is sets in, that reality may well dispel the fears. I doubt anything short of a miracle will affect those in the last group.
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ByzCathCantor
Guest
To us Eastern & Oriental Catholics, of course, the irony in this is not lost. There is fullness and richness in the liturgical traditions of the Catholic Church, even within the Latin Church itself, which surely should be appreciated even if one Form or Rite speaks to some more than others.
I believe that ECs/OCs are equally obliged to appreciate the traditions of the Latin Church, as much as we pray that our Latin Catholic brothers and sisters heed the call to come to appreciate our own. For me, the EF regrettably is a missing piece of the puzzle …
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Cat
Guest
I volunteer with the local traditional Catholic school–I play piano for them at their concerts and appearance. Much of their music is acapella (the Latin pieces), but it’s still nice to have a pianist play the parts while the students are learning them. And they do secular pieces, too–it IS a school, after all.
How does this promote Latin Mass? When people ask about my musical activities, I list playing for this school, and they ask about the school, and I explain the concept of traditional Catholicism and tell them that the students and faculty (and most of the parents) regularly attend the Latin Mass.
And the logical question is, “Where do they attend the Latin Mass?”
And I say, “Downtown, in our own city!”
And the response is, “Really? I didn’t know we had a Latin Mass!”
And sometimes they ask if it’s legit (not sedevacantist or SSPX), but most of them realize that I would never get involved with a questionable group of Catholics, and also that our bishop runs questionable groups out of town! .
Yes, it’s indirect promotion on my part. I personally do not attend Latin Mass and I am not interested in attending Latin Mass on a regular basis. But I think it’s important that Catholics know that it is an option for them. I’m pretty certain that there are people who attend that Latin Mass because they heard about it from me!
How does this promote Latin Mass? When people ask about my musical activities, I list playing for this school, and they ask about the school, and I explain the concept of traditional Catholicism and tell them that the students and faculty (and most of the parents) regularly attend the Latin Mass.
And the logical question is, “Where do they attend the Latin Mass?”
And I say, “Downtown, in our own city!”
And the response is, “Really? I didn’t know we had a Latin Mass!”
And sometimes they ask if it’s legit (not sedevacantist or SSPX), but most of them realize that I would never get involved with a questionable group of Catholics, and also that our bishop runs questionable groups out of town! .
Yes, it’s indirect promotion on my part. I personally do not attend Latin Mass and I am not interested in attending Latin Mass on a regular basis. But I think it’s important that Catholics know that it is an option for them. I’m pretty certain that there are people who attend that Latin Mass because they heard about it from me!
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