What are you protesting?

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Under the logic that Mary had to be sinless so that Jesus could be too it would mean that Mary’s mother would have to be sinless also. Why would Jesus have to have a sinless mother to be born sinless when Mary’s was born of original sin and Mary was saved? He’s God for goodness sakes!!!
Is Jesus God?

When did Jesus’s ministry start?

Why could man since Adam and Eve not enter heaven?

Does God before Jesus’s (God’s Ministry) tolerate or would He be encased in sin?

if Jesus (God) is in Mary then you are saying that God lives in and comes from sin?

For it is Mary that gave Him his D.N.A. as Man is it not?

Please answer these questions then we will talk.
 
Is Jesus God?
Of course…
When did Jesus’s ministry start?
When He was baptized (He had followers after they saw Him baptized)
Why could man since Adam and Eve not enter heaven?
Where did Elijah go when He was assumed?
Does God before Jesus’s (God’s Ministry) tolerate or would He be encased in sin?
Huh? :confused:
if Jesus (God) is in Mary then you are saying that God lives in and comes from sin?
I was posting on the answer that Mary HAD to be sinless otherwise Christ would have been sinful also. This would mean that Mary’s mother, and her mother, and so on would have HAD to be sinless for that logic to work. 🤷
For it is Mary that gave Him his D.N.A. as Man is it not?
And?
Please answer these questions then we will talk.
Your turn…
 
This scripture I am sorry to say reminds me of the reformation and how the Protestant Churches continue to divide and split.

Come back home to the Catholic Church.
You guys are the ones with the forum coplaining about protestants. Lots of protestants just call themselves Christians. You guys are the ones that cut us off just because we don’t agree with your wierd beliefs. But we all have Christ as our Lord. So we’re the same Church. Yet the fact that this forum exists is proof of your division against us.

Martin Luther and the other reformers didn’t even leave the Church, they were excommunicated. Stop going on about the reformantion until you at least read some history on the topic. The pope was the most corrupt guy around. He turned the Church into a means to have control and make money. I do not look back at the reformation and think that that sums up my whole beliefs and that it was the greatest point in history. The cross was where Jesus died for all of my sins so that I could truly be free was.
 
TO: BENU2007

The Catholic Church does not hide what it is.

The Catholic Church has for over 2000 years survived and still prospers and does not fall under scrunity/ persecution / or scandal

The Catholic Church now has grown to the largest religion in the world 1.2 billion

Even with the evils done by some of it’s members like Judas did during Jesus’s time we are sustained for we know nothing shall destroy her as promised by Jesus.

The Catholic Church is that lantern follow it.
This is how the pope managed to have total control over the people in ages past. Because he had them convinced that the Catholic church was The Church. It is not, the Church is anyone who truly has Christs as their Lord.

You need to read your history. The catholic church killed so many - and in the name of Christ too - Look at the Crusades. But it wasn’t just muslims and Jews- it was Christians too. Read your history. You will see that too.
 
This is how the pope managed to have total control over the people in ages past. Because he had them convinced that the Catholic church was The Church. It is not, the Church is anyone who truly has Christs as their Lord.

You need to read your history. The catholic church killed so many - and in the name of Christ too - Look at the Crusades. But it wasn’t just muslims and Jews- it was Christians too. Read your history. You will see that too.
Benu,

You won’t read. You won’t study. You keep making the same uninformed comments. You continue the same lame arguments without substantiation. People have tried to help you but you will not study, you will not even consider anything that is offered. Why exactly do you post?

CDL
 
Benu,

You won’t read. You won’t study. You keep making the same uninformed comments. You continue the same lame arguments without substantiation. People have tried to help you but you will not study, you will not even consider anything that is offered. Why exactly do you post?CDL
I have read about this. Just search the internet and it won’t be long before you see what the popes were like a few hundred years ago. I know the internet isn’t always reliable but with pretty much everyone on there agreeing with the fact that the pope did do things like have people killed for rejecting his authority, or trying to kill those with a Bible in a language other than Latern, or sell indulgencies. I have also read this in books, seen it on documentaries and talked about it in class (a secular class too, with a secular teacher) all historians would agree on these basic things about the popes. If you don’t believe me just have a look around on google for a while.
 
I have read about this. Just search the internet and it won’t be long before you see what the popes were like a few hundred years ago. I know the internet isn’t always reliable but with pretty much everyone on there agreeing with the fact that the pope did do things like have people killed for rejecting his authority, or trying to kill those with a Bible in a language other than Latern, or sell indulgencies. I have also read this in books, seen it on documentaries and talked about it in class (a secular class too, with a secular teacher) all historians would agree on these basic things about the popes. If you don’t believe me just have a look around on google for a while.
Benu2007,

You are Protestant I get that but from what sect?

Once you got that then go to your Church history.

Let me know and I will help you

Lets learn together or Tell me about all those good men.
 
This is how the pope managed to have total control over the people in ages past. Because he had them convinced that the Catholic church was The Church. It is not, the Church is anyone who truly has Christs as their Lord.

You need to read your history. The catholic church killed so many - and in the name of Christ too - Look at the Crusades. But it wasn’t just muslims and Jews- it was Christians too. Read your history. You will see that too.
Beno2007
This is the last time I am going to explain history to you.

The muslims were attacking the Catholics and Europe not the other way around.

If it were not for the Catholic Church saving Europe from the Muslems you would be forced to pray to Allah and follow muslem law.

There would be no Christian homeland.

If the Catholic Church was so bad why did they not kill and destroy Luther?

For at that time the Catholic Church controlled all of Europe and could have been easily done. Do you not agree?

England,Spain,Italy,France, etc… They were all Catholic States at the time run by Manarchs
 
You guys are the ones with the forum coplaining about protestants. Lots of protestants just call themselves Christians. You guys are the ones that cut us off just because we don’t agree with your wierd beliefs. But we all have Christ as our Lord. So we’re the same Church. Yet the fact that this forum exists is proof of your division against us.

Martin Luther and the other reformers didn’t even leave the Church, they were excommunicated. Stop going on about the reformantion until you at least read some history on the topic. The pope was the most corrupt guy around. He turned the Church into a means to have control and make money. I do not look back at the reformation and think that that sums up my whole beliefs and that it was the greatest point in history. The cross was where Jesus died for all of my sins so that I could truly be free was.
Free to be or do what?

Is divorce ok ever?

Is abortion ok ever?

Is embryotic stem cell ok?

Is assisted suicide ok?

Is not doing any works ok?

Is not going to church ok?

Jesus did not die on the cross for you to be free in this life but a slave for His glory.

Jesus said what you must do to follow Him? What must you carry?
 
This is how the pope managed to have total control over the people in ages past. Because he had them convinced that the Catholic church was The Church. It is not, the Church is anyone who truly has Christs as their Lord.

You need to read your history. The catholic church killed so many - and in the name of Christ too - Look at the Crusades. But it wasn’t just muslims and Jews- it was Christians too. Read your history. You will see that too.
…um, I think that Islam is the largest religion. Hinduism and Buddhism are so large that I don’t think anyone knows exactly how large they are. India is overwhelmingly Hindu and its population is over 1 billion…

Martin Luther survived because he was tried by CHARLES V, the Holy Roman Emperor, not the pope. Charles wanted to destabilize the pope, who had too much power for Charles. Even tho’ Charles bitterly disagreed with Luther, he didn’t execute him for treason. He also had a lot of wars to fight in his huge empire, so was distracted. Good thing, too.

it was all political.

pbs.org/empires/martinluther/char_charles.html
 
QUOTE=Benu2007;3431352]
I have read about this. Just search the internet and it won’t be long before you see what the popes were like a few hundred years ago. I know the internet isn’t always reliable but with pretty much everyone on there agreeing with the fact that the pope did do things like have people killed for rejecting his authority, or trying to kill those with a Bible in a language other than Latern, or sell indulgencies. I have also read this in books, seen it on documentaries and talked about it in class (a secular class too, with a secular teacher) all historians would agree on these basic things about the popes. If you don’t believe me just have a look around on google for a while.
Protestant leaders (your popes) have also killed Catholics. John Calvin put Catholics to death. Henry VIII murdered Catholic priests in England for celebrating Mass. These people all had knowledge of the Bible, yet that didn’t prevent them from violating the 10 commandments.
 
…um, I think that Islam is the largest religion. Hinduism and Buddhism are so large that I don’t think anyone knows exactly how large they are. India is overwhelmingly Hindu and its population is over 1 billion…

Martin Luther survived because he was tried by CHARLES V, the Holy Roman Emperor, not the pope. Charles wanted to destabilize the pope, who had too much power for Charles. Even tho’ Charles bitterly disagreed with Luther, he didn’t execute him for treason. He also had a lot of wars to fight in his huge empire, so was distracted. Good thing, too.

it was all political.

pbs.org/empires/martinluther/char_charles.html
Isn’t it as likely that Charles V simply did not view Luther to be a major problem until it was too late?

CDL
 
QUOTE=Benu2007;3431352]

Protestant leaders (your popes) have also killed Catholics. John Calvin put Catholics to death. Henry VIII murdered Catholic priests in England for celebrating Mass. These people all had knowledge of the Bible, yet that didn’t prevent them from violating the 10 commandments.
I don’t follow human leaders. Yes I know that there were protestant guys who killed Catholics. But there action shows that they weren’t Christians. I follow Christ. Christ did none of these things. He is my Leader and my Lord.

Yes I have a pastor and human leaders in my life - but everyone makes mistakes - Christ didn’t. He is my true Leader.
 
I don’t follow human leaders. Yes I know that there were protestant guys who killed Catholics. But there action shows that they weren’t Christians. I follow Christ. Christ did none of these things. He is my Leader and my Lord.

Yes I have a pastor and human leaders in my life - but everyone makes mistakes - Christ didn’t. He is my true Leader.
But Benu you said the Catholic Church is not of Christ than how can you be a protestant for the protestant churches comes from the Catholic Church.
 
Of course…

When He was baptized (He had followers after they saw Him baptized)

Where did Elijah go when He was assumed?

Huh? :confused:

I was posting on the answer that Mary HAD to be sinless otherwise Christ would have been sinful also. This would mean that Mary’s mother, and her mother, and so on would have HAD to be sinless for that logic to work. 🤷

And?

Your turn…
Elijah and Moses we know are in heaven. These are the only two exceptoins written, rare exceptions.

However they are prophets and messengers of God and as such will appear again probably in the end times at the temple mount.

No it is not logical or biblical that Mary’s mother Saint Anne was without sin for Christ was not to be born in her. For Mary was full of Grace at the time of conception.

Your last huh

We could not go to heaven before Christ and His paying the price for our sins agreed.

Why because God the Father is perfect and has perfect justice.

Man being an imperfect creature as was proven in the Garden of Eden.

Man is condemned to death as before the great sin there was no death.

Death without salvation for God cannot be around imperfection and does not tolerate it.

Jesus being God could not be contained in or born in a creature that was imperfect.

Mary without Sin the new Eve.

Jesus without Sin the new Adam

Both bringing in the new covenant atonement for the old covenant (do not eat of that tree) that Adam and Eve screwed up.

Everything that was said and did in the old testament is renewed and made new in the new testament.

Jesus said “I make all things new”

Jesus said"I did not come to change the old law but to fullfill it."
 
Benu2007
You did not answer my questions so I will re-post in the hopes you will.

Free to be or do what?

Is divorce ok ever?

Is abortion ok ever?

Is embryotic stem cell ok?

Is assisted suicide ok?

Is not doing any works ok?

Is not going to church ok?

Jesus did not die on the cross for you to be free in this life but a slave for His glory.

Jesus said what you must do to follow Him? What must you carry?
 
Benu2007
You did not answer my questions so I will re-post in the hopes you will.

Free to be or do what?

Is divorce ok ever?

Is abortion ok ever?

Is embryotic stem cell ok?

Is assisted suicide ok?

Is not doing any works ok?

Is not going to church ok?

Jesus did not die on the cross for you to be free in this life but a slave for His glory.

Jesus said what you must do to follow Him? What must you carry?
We are free from sin - it has no power over us. We are free from the law which bound us. And we are free from religous customs which really mean nothing (barring of course communion and baptism, however these aren’t necessary for salvation, but still important) and they provide no help in helping us deal with our sinful desires.

None of those things listed are good. You know I know that. However not doing them does not make us saved. Its only by believing in Christ. Sure, if you live a life of sin when you say you believe you will not besaved (Galations 5:19-21). But it was Christ’s sacrifice and nothing else that makes us totally righteous. All we have to do is believe.

By the way. God sees only one Church. It is neither Catholic or Protestant. It is for all those who make Christ their Lord. It wasn’t the Catholic church which then had people break away from it. It was a which went through some reforms. If you look at the history of the church you will see how incredibly corrupt it became. If you read about the popes you will notice it wasn’t about doing God’s will. It was about money, power and politics. God was only used as a means to have absolute athority. Read about this.
 
We are free from sin - it has no power over us. We are free from the law which bound us. And we are free from religous customs which really mean nothing (barring of course communion and baptism, however these aren’t necessary for salvation, but still important) and they provide no help in helping us deal with our sinful desires.

None of those things listed are good. You know I know that. However not doing them does not make us saved. Its only by believing in Christ. Sure, if you live a life of sin when you say you believe you will not besaved (Galations 5:19-21). But it was Christ’s sacrifice and nothing else that makes us totally righteous. All we have to do is believe.

By the way. God sees only one Church. It is neither Catholic or Protestant. It is for all those who make Christ their Lord. It wasn’t the Catholic church which then had people break away from it. It was a which went through some reforms. If you look at the history of the church you will see how incredibly corrupt it became. If you read about the popes you will notice it wasn’t about doing God’s will. It was about money, power and politics. God was only used as a means to have absolute athority. Read about this.
Like I have said. You do not read or take seriously much of anything. So I drop out of this fruitless discussion. Nevertheless, I will simply pray.

CDL
 
We are free from sin - it has no power over us. We are free from the law which bound us. And we are free from religous customs which really mean nothing (barring of course communion and baptism, however these aren’t necessary for salvation, but still important) and they provide no help in helping us deal with our sinful desires.

None of those things listed are good. You know I know that. However not doing them does not make us saved. Its only by believing in Christ. Sure, if you live a life of sin when you say you believe you will not besaved (Galations 5:19-21). But it was Christ’s sacrifice and nothing else that makes us totally righteous. All we have to do is believe.

By the way. God sees only one Church. It is neither Catholic or Protestant. It is for all those who make Christ their Lord. It wasn’t the Catholic church which then had people break away from it. It was a which went through some reforms. If you look at the history of the church you will see how incredibly corrupt it became. If you read about the popes you will notice it wasn’t about doing God’s will. It was about money, power and politics. God was only used as a means to have absolute athority. Read about this.
So are you saying that if I do all these things and know they are wrong with no remorse and because I believe I will be saved?

Again your argument on the Catholic Church is about men and their sins or those you perceive and then sit in judgement condeming them. The protestant reformation were men sitting in protest and judgement on Christ’s Church not the actions of some of it’s clergical members.

Seven Chosen to Serve
6:1 Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint by the Hellenists [1] arose against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution. 2 And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. 3 Therefore, brothers, [2] pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty. 4 But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” 5 And what they said pleased the whole gathering, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch. 6 These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands on them.

7 And the word of God continued to increase, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.

Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas
12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey away. 13 And when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. 14 All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers. [3]

15 In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said, 16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. 17 For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.” 18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong [4] he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) 20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms,

“‘May his camp become desolate,
and let there be no one to dwell in it’;

and

“‘Let another take his office.’

21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.” 23 And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26 And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Yes even Jesus picked a man by the name of Judas Iscariot but He did not do away the Apostles or his Church.

Where is your Apostolic Succession?
Where are Your Priests?

For what I quoteD is scripture. It seems to me you only follow what you want, to pick and choose. That is not the way to salvation. Would you not agree?
 
So are you saying that if I do all these things and know they are wrong with no remorse and because I believe I will be saved?QUOTE]

To answer your first question.
No! I have said many times before that you have to live for God by walking in the Spirirt. I have told you before to read Galations 5. Obviously you have not so I will post it here for you. It shows exactly where I stand on this issue.

Freedom in Christ
1 So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law.
2 Listen! I, Paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 I’ll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey every regulation in the whole law of Moses. 4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.

5 But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive by faith the righteousness God has promised to us. 6 For when we place our faith in Christ Jesus, there is no benefit in being circumcised or being uncircumcised. What is important is faith expressing itself in love.

7 You were running the race so well. Who has held you back from following the truth? 8 It certainly isn’t God, for he is the one who called you to freedom. 9 This false teaching is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough! 10 I am trusting the Lord to keep you from believing false teachings. God will judge that person, whoever he is, who has been confusing you.

11 Dear brothers and sisters,[a] if I were still preaching that you must be circumcised—as some say I do—why am I still being persecuted? If I were no longer preaching salvation through the cross of Christ, no one would be offended. 12 I just wish that those troublemakers who want to mutilate you by circumcision would mutilate themselves.**

13 For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don’t use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love. 14 For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[c] 15 But if you are always biting and devouring one another, watch out! Beware of destroying one another.

Living by the Spirit’s Power
16 So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves. 17 The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions. 18 But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses.
19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!

24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. 25 Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives. 26 Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another.

If you notice when we follow the Spirit then we produce the fruits of the Spirit. If you are living like this you are not going to go around sinning without remorce. What I am saying is that doing good does not get us saved. Its having faith. When we have faith we walk in the Spirit. When we walk in the Spirit we produce the fruits of the Spirit which will cause us to naturally live a life away from sin. Do you follow what I am saying?**
 
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