What are you protesting?

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I went to your site and your Parish sounds like it really understands and practices it’s faith.

It is wonderful to hear how the eastern and western Catholic Church can work together towards a common goal. That is a great platform for the

day the Greek, Russian, and Roman Catholic Churches will become one again as the Eastern and Western has and then World watch out

.
Indeed so! Father says that everything we do must have evangelization in mind. The building, the grounds, the high quality of liturgical practice, our displays at fairs and such are all putting the Christian life on display. Besides all of this Father is a leader in the Theology of the Body movement and we regular bear witness to the Gospel outside abortion clinics. One outstanding outreach is our radio broadcasts called “Light of the East”. You can access them either on the radio or by clicking on radio on our website and select an archived broadcast. I’m on a couple of them. My testimony is among the earliest broadcasts. I think its on October 17 or 24, 2004.

CDL
 
Benu,

You wrote “we shouldn’t say ‘hail Mary’ to Mary?” Could you please explain to us why you would write such a thing? Until we can figure out why you say such things I don’t know how we are to respond to you.

CDL
":The Hail Mary is an important prayer to many Christian denominations. Particularly to Catholics, the Hail Mary is an important part of reciting the catholic Rosary. A Rosary is a group of beads split into sections of ten. There is then separation between the end of tenth bead in each section that is followed by a solitary bead, and another separation, then a sequence of ten more beads. Additionally, the rosary has a cross and five separate beads that begin the contemplative prayer.

Saying 10 Hail Marys is essentially saying a section of the rosary. The Hail Mary is repeated 10 times in each section. As well as speaking or silently thinking the prayer, Catholics use the repetition of the Hail Mary as a way to meditate on Christ. They might devote a section of the rosary to certain thoughts, or to family members. For example, often prior to a Catholic funeral, a rosary and prayer service may be held."

This isn’t even my own words. It is a google search in which I searched “saying Hail Mary” I went straight to the first sight and took the first two paragraphs. There are plenty more sights that I didn’t even bother to go to. Hail Mary is a common phrase among Catholics. It is even seen as a way to reduce time in purgatory. This is utter nonsense. Christ died for all our sins on the cross. It was finished there. Having faith in Christ is the only way of having our sins forgiven. Why do you keep accusing me of making up things? If you’re wondering why I said you shouldn’t say Hail Mary, it’s because it is a form of worship, whether you believe it or not. Give me one example where the phrase is in the Bible.
 
":The Hail Mary is an important prayer to many Christian denominations. Particularly to Catholics, the Hail Mary is an important part of reciting the catholic Rosary. A Rosary is a group of beads split into sections of ten. There is then separation between the end of tenth bead in each section that is followed by a solitary bead, and another separation, then a sequence of ten more beads. Additionally, the rosary has a cross and five separate beads that begin the contemplative prayer.

Saying 10 Hail Marys is essentially saying a section of the rosary. The Hail Mary is repeated 10 times in each section. As well as speaking or silently thinking the prayer, Catholics use the repetition of the Hail Mary as a way to meditate on Christ. They might devote a section of the rosary to certain thoughts, or to family members. For example, often prior to a Catholic funeral, a rosary and prayer service may be held."

This isn’t even my own words. It is a google search in which I searched “saying Hail Mary” I went straight to the first sight and took the first two paragraphs. There are plenty more sights that I didn’t even bother to go to. Hail Mary is a common phrase among Catholics. It is even seen as a way to reduce time in purgatory. This is utter nonsense. Christ died for all our sins on the cross. It was finished there. Having faith in Christ is the only way of having our sins forgiven. Why do you keep accusing me of making up things? If you’re wondering why I said you shouldn’t say Hail Mary, it’s because it is a form of worship, whether you believe it or not. Give me one example where the phrase is in the Bible.
Is something wrong with you. We just have given you examples. What’s wrong with you?

CDL
 
If you’re wondering why I said you shouldn’t say Hail Mary, it’s because it is a form of worship, whether you believe it or not. Give me one example where the phrase is in the Bible.
I’ll use the KJV so you can look it up and see the same in your Bible -

"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee"

*Luke 1:28
King James Version (KJV)

28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
*

If you want a full explanation of just how biblical the Rosary is - visit this link - it’s the Catholic Answer site for this forum:

catholic.com/library/rosary.asp
 
hehe, I completely missed c659smith detailed description of the Hail Mary 😛 Too bad I can’t delete my post anymore… :o
 
hehe, I completely missed c659smith detailed description of the Hail Mary 😛 Too bad I can’t delete my post anymore… :o
It looks as though Benu not only doesn’t read scripture he doesn’t read the posts here either. I’m worried about that fellow.

CDL
 
It looks as though Benu not only doesn’t read scripture he doesn’t read the posts here either. I’m worried about that fellow.

CDL
I read far more scripture than you do. That’s why I don’t follow dumb ideas given by men. I don’t follow what a particular church, with a leadership that claims to be able to interperupt the bible with infallability. I follow Christ and Christ alone. And you guys are critising me for that.

When I am busy I don’t have time to sit in front of insanely long posts so sorry if I don’t reply back straight away all the time.
 
Benu2007,

Good Morning and hope all is well.

Just so we are on a level playing field what denomination of Christian are you or have you been raised?

I am somewhat perplexed by alot of your questions and answers within the past two weeks and overall as I do not see any foundation with a Christian education or belief system by you.

I say this as a point of charity and not to be sarcastic or demeaning.

If you are not Christian and have a honest desire to learn more that is good.

It is ok to be argumentative here but sooner or later have to state whether you believe or do not believe.

Peace be with you
Although I hate the idea of dominations I will answer your question. I’ve come from a pentecostal background. I don’t see what you find so wierd about my beliefs unless you’ve only ever talked to people from traditional churches rather than fundalmentalist ones.

Here are my basic beliefs on salvation. I will state them for you to clarify any issues you have.

Salvation:

Saved by grace through faith in Christ. And this is not a reward for the good things we have done (Eph 2:8-9)

We are saved by faith alone. (Romans 3:27-30)

A tree is known by it’s fruit. I.e. when we live by faith we will do what is right in Gods eyes. If we carry on following our sinful nature then it is clear we do not have faith, that we have not accepted Christ to be our Lord. Our works show whether or not we have faith. (Matt 7:15-20; Gal 5:13-26; Rom 3:31;James 2:19-26 John 5:1-2)

Christ’s death redeemed us fully from sin and makes us totally righteous when we believe. (Heb 10:10-18; John 1:7-2:2).

Please I would like to hear your beliefs around salvation. Also any queries that you have would also be apreciated.
 
BENU2007
Benu,

You wrote “we shouldn’t say ‘hail Mary’ to Mary?” Could you please explain to us why you would write such a thing? Until we can figure out why you say such things I don’t know how we are to respond to you

Now Benu, I thought you read scripture

There are two parts to the Hail Mary and the part you are protesting is recitation of Scripture

Angel Gabriel speaking to Mary
Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with thee.

Now remember the Holy Spirit was only given to one person on earth to that date and that was Mary–Grace comes from the Holy Spirit

Blessed are thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.

Remember Elizabeth pregnant with John the Baptist said this to Mary when John leaped in her womb.

Holy Mary, Mother of God------Thats a fact

So I know not what you protest.

there are benighted souls in my communion (Mother Teresa, say) whose summary of Marian devotion is: Love Jesus as Mary loves Jesus, love Mary as Jesus loves Mary. Such people seem to think that Mary is not a goddess but that she has a significant place in the drama of redemption. They regard her as remarkable in that her choice to love and obey the as-yet-unseen and unincarnate Messiah was the very key to the Incarnation.

people suspect that as the risen Christ remains human forever, so he remains his mother’s son forever. If she loves him, she just might love those who are in him as her own and pray they will love her son with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength. Likewise, if Jesus loves her in a unique way and we are to be like him . . . well, you can work that one out.

Also lets not forget that as you wished The Old and New Testament

Eve the woman of the old and Mary the Woman of the new

Eve with sin--------Mary without

Adam --old-----Jesus New

Adam with sin----Jesus without Sin
In regards to your Hail Mary quotes. This was nothing more than a simple greeting. As other translations put it.

While Jesus is descibed as the last Adam without sin. Mary is never described as the Eve without sin. This is not a biblical teaching. Neither the Old or the New Testaments say this.

You place Mary so high because she was Jesus’ mother. But Jesus is greater than Mary. Jesus was God. He was there from the beginning. Thus before Mary and greater than Mary. David was know as Jesus’ ancestor yet no one talks about him like you talk about Mary. Also look at how much Mary is mentioned in the Bible compared to Christ. It would barely even be a 1% ratio. So why do you talk about her so much. Yes God had favour on Mary. But He also had favour on others in the Bible. For example, Enoch and Elijah had such a relationship with God that He took them into Heaven without them dying. This is Biblical. Apart from Christ no one, other than these two, has ascended into Heaven.
 
I read far more scripture than you do. That’s why I don’t follow dumb ideas given by men. I don’t follow what a particular church, with a leadership that claims to be able to interperupt the bible with infallability. I follow Christ and Christ alone. And you guys are critising me for that.

When I am busy I don’t have time to sit in front of insanely long posts so sorry if I don’t reply back straight away all the time.
You not only don’t reply straight away you don’t really reply at all. Ok, show me how much more scripture you read than I do. Prove it. Don’t just make silly claims. Prove it.

Also, prove that you follow Christ and Him alone. Don’t just make baseless claims. Prove your claims.

CDL
 
Although I hate the idea of dominations I will answer your question. I’ve come from a pentecostal background. I don’t see what you find so wierd about my beliefs unless you’ve only ever talked to people from traditional churches rather than fundalmentalist ones.

Here are my basic beliefs on salvation. I will state them for you to clarify any issues you have.

Salvation:

Saved by grace through faith in Christ. And this is not a reward for the good things we have done (Eph 2:8-9)

We are saved by faith alone. (Romans 3:27-30)

A tree is known by it’s fruit. I.e. when we live by faith we will do what is right in Gods eyes. If we carry on following our sinful nature then it is clear we do not have faith, that we have not accepted Christ to be our Lord. Our works show whether or not we have faith. (Matt 7:15-20; Gal 5:13-26; Rom 3:31;James 2:19-26 John 5:1-2)

Christ’s death redeemed us fully from sin and makes us totally righteous when we believe. (Heb 10:10-18; John 1:7-2:2).

Please I would like to hear your beliefs around salvation. Also any queries that you have would also be apreciated.
Nothing new here. You may twist these teachings to your own end but there’s nothing new here unless one has never read the Gospels at all except, of course, for one of your assertions. Demonstrate from Romans 3:27-31 what exactly you mean. Let’s see if you really do understand the Scriptures that you say you read. Here’s your chance.

I’ll make it easy on you. I’ll put the passage here straight from your Calvinist translation of the Bible.

27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

By the way, I do quite realize that the Bible is a Catholic book and that this version isn’t perfect but I am willing to let you use it and I am even willing to let you use a version that is not perfect. I do also realize that you skipped vs. 31 in your boasting. I think it only fair that you use the scriptures in context. Go get 'em, Tiger.

CDL

BTW Do you expect to see the Angel Gabriel in hell?
 
In regards to your Hail Mary quotes. This was nothing more than a simple greeting. As other translations put it.

While Jesus is descibed as the last Adam without sin. Mary is never described as the Eve without sin. This is not a biblical teaching. Neither the Old or the New Testaments say this.

You place Mary so high because she was Jesus’ mother. But Jesus is greater than Mary. Jesus was God. He was there from the beginning. Thus before Mary and greater than Mary. David was know as Jesus’ ancestor yet no one talks about him like you talk about Mary. Also look at how much Mary is mentioned in the Bible compared to Christ. It would barely even be a 1% ratio. So why do you talk about her so much. Yes God had favour on Mary. But He also had favour on others in the Bible. For example, Enoch and Elijah had such a relationship with God that He took them into Heaven without them dying. This is Biblical. Apart from Christ no one, other than these two, has ascended into Heaven.
Did you say that you were once Catholic? Are you saying that somehow what you have written above is an attack upon the Catholic understanding of Christ or Mary? Could you explain to us how what you have written is an attack upon Catholic doctrine?

CDL
 
In regards to your Hail Mary quotes. This was nothing more than a simple greeting. As other translations put it.

While Jesus is descibed as the last Adam without sin. Mary is never described as the Eve without sin. This is not a biblical teaching. Neither the Old or the New Testaments say this.

You place Mary so high because she was Jesus’ mother. But Jesus is greater than Mary. Jesus was God. He was there from the beginning. Thus before Mary and greater than Mary. David was know as Jesus’ ancestor yet no one talks about him like you talk about Mary. Also look at how much Mary is mentioned in the Bible compared to Christ. It would barely even be a 1% ratio. So why do you talk about her so much. Yes God had favour on Mary. But He also had favour on others in the Bible. For example, Enoch and Elijah had such a relationship with God that He took them into Heaven without them dying. This is Biblical. Apart from Christ no one, other than these two, has ascended into Heaven.
Is the Trinity biblical teaching? Show me in the Bible the word Trinity.

Your contention is that Maary is only mentioned 1% in the bible but yet Peter the Apostle is mentioned 10x more than anyother Apostle but you deny him as being the head of the Church.

Me think you talk with forked tongue.

Now lets go with your common sense abilities Enoch and Elijah were taken into heaven.

Now Mary, is Jesus’s earthly Mother. Any problems with that?

Now the 5th commandment is honor thy father and mother. Any problems with that?

Now Jesus is the son of God. Any Problems with that?

If Jesus did not honor is earthly Mother he would be breaking one of His Father’s Commandments. Any problem with that?

Now understand that while Jesus is God He still remains man. Any problem with that?
After Jesus’s resurrection the Apostles did touch Him, ate with Him, and spoke to Him. So the word while spirit also remains flesh. One of the mysteries.

What you are contending is that Jesus, while God honored His Mother by allowing Her flesh to rot in the ground unlike that of Elijah and Enoch.

You also know the the early Church and relics right?

So Mary the earthly Mother of God is where is Her grave and where are the relics?

When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

The traditional translation, “full of grace,” is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of “highly favored daughter.” Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for “daughter”). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning “to fill or endow with grace.” Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit.

Your objection raised that if Mary were without sin, she would be equal to God. In the beginning, God created Adam, Eve, and the angels without sin, but none were equal to God. Most of the angels never sinned, and all souls in heaven are without sin. This does not detract from the glory of God, but manifests it by the work he has done in sanctifying his creation. Sinning does not make one human. On the contrary, it is when man is without sin that he is most fully what God intends him to be.

worth noting that 1 Chronicles 15:14 records that the persons who bore the ark were to be sanctified. There would be no sense in sanctifying men who carried a box, and not sanctifying the womb who carried God himself! After all, wisdom will not dwell “in a body under debt of sin” (Wis. 1:4 NAB).

After all, if Mary is immaculately conceived, then it would follow that she would not suffer the corruption in the grave, which is a consequence of sin [Gen. 3:17, 19].
 
hehe, I completely missed c659smith detailed description of the Hail Mary 😛 Too bad I can’t delete my post anymore… :o
It looks as though Benu not only doesn’t read scripture he doesn’t read the posts here either. I’m worried about that fellow.

CDL
That was my post silly! 😛 Unless you meant that both Benu AND Roguemelody don’t read posts…then I can blame it on being awake at 3am 😉
 
That was my post silly! 😛 Unless you meant that both Benu AND Roguemelody don’t read posts…then I can blame it on being awake at 3am 😉
No, I was referring to Benu consistent ignoring of posts people make. Even when sites other posts he doesn’t respond to what he written. He seems to have an agenda and come hell or high water he is going to push it and will ignore or run over other people’s writing as often as he needs to so he can push his agenda. He seems to simply mimic his handlers. Nothing much gets digested.

CDL
 
I read far more scripture than you do. That’s why I don’t follow dumb ideas given by men. I don’t follow what a particular church, with a leadership that claims to be able to interperupt the bible with infallability. I follow Christ and Christ alone. And you guys are critising me for that.

When I am busy I don’t have time to sit in front of insanely long posts so sorry if I don’t reply back straight away all the time.
That is impossible for you to do. the Bible has been wiht the catholics for 2000 years; and you, how long have you been around? quit believing that what is written in the Bible is referring directly to, it is not. Jesus chose 12 apostles to build His Church the catholic church. this church is the one with authority to interpret its content and not you. Repent and humble yourself before it is to late for you to enter into the ark of salvation. you are so blind that it hinders you from seen what we see on you, nothing but pride, ignorance and arrogance.
the catholic church behaves like Christ for it is of Christ.
it is written, “if any man says he loves God and hates his brother he is a liar.” something for you to think about.

:knight2:
 
That is impossible for you to do. the Bible has been wiht the catholics for 2000 years; and you, how long have you been around? quit believing that what is written in the Bible is referring directly to, it is not. Jesus chose 12 apostles to build His Church the catholic church. this church is the one with authority to interpret its content and not you. Repent and humble yourself before it is to late for you to enter into the ark of salvation. you are so blind that it hinders you from seen what we see on you, nothing but pride, ignorance and arrogance.

:knight2:
Not everyone believes what you think is true.
 
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