What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

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catholic1seeks said:
more and more people will become compassionate and more understanding towards LGBT people. It just takes time – and knowing real life LGBT people.
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It’s one thing to be compassionate and understanding; it’s quite another thing to be hoodwinked by a group activists that hate Church teaching, play the victim, and mask their true intentions. I personally know people who are in same sex marriages, and I have a sibling who struggles with SSA; I also happen to have lived in a major city in the heart of a gay neighborhood and seen the farse up front when by happenstance attended an “LGBT mass” jam packed with gay couples who went out of their way to show they were an item, while non-chalantly go to communion, as if it’s only a matter of time when “attitudes change” and the Church will stop “disapproving” of gay marriage. After all, there are plenty of actively homosexual priests and clergy who hide inside the Church living double lives “disagreeing” with Church teaching…

Thus, the problem when someone that is not open to the truth is that they become numb to it, blind to it, deaf to it, and don;’t want to hear it; and they use their intellect to rationalize anything. Thus the devil provides clever little arguments to help such people take baby-steps along the path he’s laid out for the souls he deceives. We see this complex with the rationalization of murder through abortion. It’s always baby steps.

God’s commandments are non-negotiable; whatever God detested in the Old Testament He detests in the New Testament, the only difference is that we avoid the wrath of the Father when we turn to Jesus and seek repentance and forgiveness through Him. So realize once and for all that it is one thing to be a sinner and to fall into sin; it’s quite another thing to rationalize and excuse, or to deny sin itself; this is the craftiness of the devil. When a priest tells others that “God understands” and “God is merciful” while they confirm others in their sin, and with a winsuch a person makesa mockery of God ’s laws and of Christ’s suffering on the cross…
 
Gab123 said:
It’s one thing to be compassionate and understanding; it’s quite another thing to be hoodwinked by a group activists that hate Church teaching, play the victim, and mask their true intentions
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Yes, we know. We know. You keep saying this.
 
Exactly. Yeah Sciambra’s story is pretty drastic. We’re talking gay pornography, AIDS and all sorts of other diseases due to promiscuity combined with the damage done from anal sex and the drugs… the guy almost lost many friends to AIDS, and almost lost his life to some other STD. When trying to find solutions to his problems, many of the “gay friendly” priests basically told him that he was made that way and should just accept himself, you know the usual, but when you’re in that world and that is what you hear, because being gay meant being in that scene (or else there is nothing for you) and because it was seen as something fixed, it becomes a condemnation rather than a help.

While it’s definitely not a universal account, I do think there really is an “underbelly” of the gay scene that is severely disfunctional that persists even today. The people who are more like Sciambra are far more likely to come from that world.

One thing I would like to see is the Spiritual Friendship and Courage crowd be in more of a conversation, because they seem to attract different camps even though they have a good bit in common. Belgau is tied to both (and I have found him a bit more measured in his approach than Tushnet is), but he probably tries to be cool and discrete about the tensions. But it looks like while you might see a critique occasionally from one side to the other, there isn’t any real dialogue… it’s more like they don’t really acknowledge each other much.
 
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What will you do when the day comes that multiple openly gay couples come into your Catholic church and stay for the whole mass and go to communion. Sunday after Sunday. Week after week? What will you do, exactly? And then you go to a different parish and the same thing happens there, too? And the next, and the next?

The point I am trying to make is that there isn’t really anything you will be able to do. That time may be coming. I would consider this, seriously. I don’t know what the answer would be for you or for anyone else. However, I think it will be much more difficult for you, because whether or not you intend it, you come across as a person who really has a significant issue with homosexuals. And not in a good way, either.
 
una_ecclesia said:
Exactly. Yeah Sciambra’s story is pretty drastic. We’re talking gay pornography, AIDS and all sorts of other diseases due to promiscuity combined with the damage done from anal sex and the drugs… the guy almost lost many friends to AIDS, and almost lost his life to some other STD. When trying to find solutions to his problems, many of the “gay friendly” priests basically told him that he was made that way and should just accept himself, you know the usual, but when you’re in that world and that is what you hear, because being gay meant being in that scene (or else there is nothing for you) and because it was seen as something fixed, it becomes a condemnation rather than a help.

While it’s definitely not a universal account, I do think there really is an “underbelly” of the gay scene that is severely disfunctional that persists even today. The people who are more like Sciambra are far more likely to come from that world.
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But being gay does not mean that someone has to be in a particular “scene” or stay in one if they’re there right now. There are lots of gay men who are in committed and even monogamous relationships, who attend churches that welcome them and except for the fact that they have a same-sex partner, lead lives that are hardly different from those of many straight couples.

And there are also straight men who are promiscuous, use drugs, get STD’s, etc. But no one thinks that any straight man who is in that “scene” must remain there because his sexual orientation requires it.

It’s not as if there are only two options for a gay man: stay gay and lead a promiscuous, drug filled life or deny that you’re gay and become celibate or try and become straight.
 
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Big question requiring thoughtful responses, though it bears repeating that this community is facing major consequences of antibiotic failure to cure a host of epidemic STIs.
Have to get back on thoughtful responses, but if there are chaste religious here, maybe they can explain how to cultivate a chaste life?
 
First thing Church can do is state the obvious: lust can never find satisfaction because it’s against its very nature.

Second, is I would like people to do a little reading about intersexed children; children born with ambiguous genitalia. There is a five point spectrum like pH scale but uses five catagories of deformation severity. There is no way to determine what the child’s affectional or sexual preference will be until the child enters teens, and then still it’s very confusing. Many children who were made into girls as infants out of convenience for freaked out parents, turned out to
identify as boys. However, we’re still five years away from being able to perform genital replacement surgeries.

Third: review research on the anatomical differences within the brains of gay men vs heterosexual men, including the physiology of differentiating sexual preference identity during the last trimester of fetal development. Also review research on the sexual preference differences between identical twins.

Fourth: review the original wording in Corinthians prior to 1855 (it was catamite, not homosexual) as the term homosexual did not exist until 1869 where it first appeared in a German medical journal. Don’t assume what our entire theology is just yet.

Even in this millennial generation, gay kids largely hide their indentity until they’re out on their own, but not all. No one wants to be so different from their family or peers that they risk loosing this unique developmental construct best described by St Abraham Maslow in his Theory of Human Motivation, aka Maslows hierarchy of human needs.

Then consider the spiritual plight of all humankind where we have for ions, used substances, including our own body chemistry to fill our spiritual emptiness in an effort to cope with our separation from the Divine triune Godhead.
Continued…
Hope there are no more edits needed.
 
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Thorolfr said:
But being gay does not mean that someone has to be in a particular “scene” or stay in one if they’re there right now. There are lots of gay men who are in committed and even monogamous relationships, who attend churches that welcome them and except for the fact that they have a same-sex partner, lead lives that are hardly different from those of many straight couples.
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I’m not disagreeing with you per se. I’m simply talking about the experience of Sciambra and people like him who saw such scenes as the main place where one could be accepted as a gay man. Sciambra in particular was living as an active homosexual before and during the AIDS crisis. While it’s nowhere near the same now, chances are if you were some gay kid back then when homosexuality was more taboo, and you wanted a place to fit in and be with people like you, or who could at least understand you, going to LA or other gay hubs would have seemed like a much more initially appealing option.
Thorolfr said:
And there are also straight men who are promiscuous, use drugs, get STD’s, etc. But no one thinks that any straight man who is in that “scene” must remain there because his sexual orientation requires it.
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Also true, but again, people attracted to the opposite sex probably had far more options when it came to finding someone compatible without any stigma attached to it, or even just finding someone, period. If you are lesbian or gay and want to act according to that orientation, that kinda limits your dating pool a bit, right? And back then, as well as now to some extent, it limits your social circle as well. So for many people, these areas felt like the only place where they could feel like they belonged or were accepted.
 
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Well, the gay mafia who stalk (neared) me are interrupting my ability to control my own keyboard. sbgbhksdnskd now I cannot access symbols keyboard. So Their interruptions are NOT in parentheses.

Shalom. jackson
 
QwertyGirl said:
What will you do when the day comes that multiple openly gay couples come into your Catholic church and stay for the whole mass and go to communion. Sunday after Sunday. Week after week? What will you do, exactly? And then you go to a different parish and the same thing happens there, too?
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Obviously I will simply go to mass like I always do; mass is about worshipping God and receiving Holy Communion not only for our own sanctification, but to make reparation for the sins of others, especially blasphemies agains the Holy Eucharist. I’m not angry with people who are prisoners to sin; I’m simply not being silent about the insidious tactics of LGBT activists who hide inside the Church and lie about their intentions to normalize the gay lifestyle and confuse and divide the people in the pews. As far as hating homosexuals, Jesus does not hate sinners, He despises sin and the consequence of sin…

So my perspective is not one of anger or disgust for people who are stuck in slavery, but rather a telling of the truth about what is really going on. My issue is with the normalization of a n abomination. After all I have a a brother whom I love that was a slave of the lifestyle for a long time. it’s simply knowing that all these people stuck in slavery, chained to the devil have it harder to break free when the world around them normalizes, encourages and blesses them, even by some inside the Church, an abomination that not only does not lead to happiness, but leads to high rates of suicide and the condemnation of their eternal soul. hearing Catholic priests who should know better encouraging and giving tacit approval is not only frightening for those who take the advice, but frightful for the priest, who will have the loss of souls on his account…

In the gospel we see how the good and merciful gentle Jesus turns on a dime and warns those who bring scandal into the world and how it would be better for them to have a millstone tied around their neck and to be thrown into the depth of the sea, than to teach others how to sin.

Obviously the Church will never change its teaching on gay marriage or homosexuality; the big concern is the perverting of the youth through bad example and the witness of people normalizing it, especially in the Church.

It’s really about a spiritual battle for souls.

If you know about the message of Divine Mercy, it was St. Faustina who asked Christ how it is that He is so merciful and patient with sinners, with so many outrages, blasphemies against the Holy Eucharist and ingratitude from people whom He suffered and died for to save them from their sins. His answer was that He knows what awaits those who do not repent and come to Him for mercy. It’s a horrific end.

Jesus gave to St. Faustina a vision of heaven and hell, you might want to watch it. I will post the video below. Reading St. Faustina’s description of hell I can’t help but feel sadness and fright for people who are stuck in the slavery of sin, and for those who are unwittingly normalizing and witnessing it for others. The video starts with her vision of heaven:

 
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una_ecclesia said:
I’m not disagreeing with you per se. I’m simply talking about the experience of Sciambra and people like him who saw such scenes as the main place where one could be accepted as a gay man. Sciambra in particular was living as an active homosexual before and during the AIDS crisis. While it’s nowhere near the same now, chances are if you were some gay kid back then when homosexuality was more taboo, and you wanted a place to fit in and be with people like you, or who could at least understand you, going to LA or other gay hubs would have seemed like a much more initially appealing option.
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Mr. Sciambra wasn’t living as a homosexual before the AIDS crisis. He was born in 1969 and according to his own account, “Once I turned eighteen, one of the first solo trips that I made was to the Castro in San Francisco. For those who may not be familiar with this neighbor, it is the epee-center of the gay world.” That means that he first went to the Castro in 1987 which is well after the beginning of the AIDS epidemic.

http://www.en.wikimannia.org/Joseph_Sciambra

I was born in 1961 and moved to San Francisco in the summer of 1982 after I came out. That was one year after the first cases of Kaposi’s Sarcoma (an AIDS related opportunistic infection) were first reported in gay men by the CDC on 3 July 1981. By the end of 1981, there were 159 reported cases of what came to be called AIDS. By the end of 1982, there were 771 cases of AIDS and 618 deaths.

Moving to a “gay hub” like San Francisco was certainly important for a lot of gay men, myself included. But it’s not as if every gay man who moved there before and during the AIDS epidemic and belonged to the gay community there all did the same things or had the same outcomes. Thousands of people died, some of whom were people very close to me. And thousands of people were infected but didn’t die and many of them are still alive today. Many of them are also my friends. And thousands of gay men, even gay men living in places like San Francisco or LA or New York City, did not become infected. But the epidemic changed us all and at least in my case, has, I hope, made me much more compassionate towards other people who suffer for whatever reason.

It’s not very helpful to make generalizations about what gay people (or anyone else for that matter) are like or what made them gay or what kind of lives they lead. Everyone is different. Mr. Sciambra has his own story and I do feel for his apparent suffering and respect his right to make his own decisions about where he wants to go with his life. But not everyone has had the exact same experiences as he has had and feels compelled to follow the same path.
 
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Jackson said:
Pederasty among homosexuals is far from rampent.
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MOST of the cases of sexual abuse in the Church are with post-pubescent teenage boys, which is technically homosexuality…
 
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This is actually false. The main range where abuse occurred was with boys who were 11-14 years. This is around the stage of puberty, but these were still boys. A significant chunk was older than that, but it was still a minority.
 
una_ecclesia said:
This is actually false. The main range where abuse occurred was with boys who were 11-14 years. This is around the stage of puberty
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The article on Psychologytoday website states: “Research tells us that about 80 percent of clergy sex offenders abuse post-pubescent teens, not pre-pubescent children. So the phrase “pedophile priest” is a misnomer.”
 
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Look up the John Jay Report on this. The article you cite seemed to have misread the data. That 20% looks like it corresponds to children under the age of 10, not prepubescent children in general.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Vile men of Afghanistan who’re pedophiles will never sleep with another man–the technical definition of homosexuality. Check out why the U.S. military who intervened to rescue children in nearby Afghan barracks were severely reprimanded by our government.
It’s known as Bacha Bazi. Many YouTube vids on how poor rural parents give up their very young sons after they’re lied to about how they’ll go to school and become elite, so when pàrents are old their son will take good care of them. Yet, many of these boys end up dead from gang rape.
 
Ratio of pedophiles preferring boys identify as heterosexual 20:1.
The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex offenders against children: an exploratory study.

Freund K1, Watson RJ.
Author information
Abstract
Previous investigations have indicated that the ratio of sex offenders against female children vs. offenders against male children is approximately 2:1, while the ratio of gynephiles to androphiles among the general population is approximately 20:1. The present study investigated whether the etiology of preferred partner sex among pedophiles is related to the etiology of preferred partner sex among males preferring adult partners. Using phallometric test sensitivities to calculate the proportion of true pedophiles among various groups of sex offenders against children, and taking into consideration previously reported mean numbers of victims per offender group, the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles was calculated to be approximately 11:1. This suggests that the resulting proportion of true pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually. This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males have a greater propensity to offend against children.
 
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