What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

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Well of course, @Thorolfr! Pastors of the Catholic Church are, well, pastoral – at least usually, at least they are called to be.

The extreme, rigorist “letter of the law!” folk are usually on the fringe, and they love to make their presence known online, OH! – and they’re often NOT pastors! 🤭

All this is to say that, even though our churches are always called to accompany people more and more, even the institutional church recognizes that my question (this thread) is valid. It’s only select individuals who like to say otherwise – usually those who think they are more magisterium than the magisterium.
Gab123: They know they have to start with getting a foot in the door and to proceed with tiny baby steps, but they have a very well-organized well-financed structural approach that includes courses, study guides and specific tactics for gaining people’s acceptance of the idea that God made people specifically transexual, or gay, or pansexual etc. for a purpose, as just another expression of God’s creation.
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@Gab123 but this is BS and irrelevant to this thread, as are most of your posts.

@Thorolfr, why do you choose to interact with him?
 
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theCardinalbird said:
Keep in mind the three requirements must be met for it to be a mortal sin, but in terms of SSA being a factor that decreases culpability, well, then if one is familiar with the Church and this teaching then he/she should know better to be putting him/herself into a situation where homosexual acts could occur.
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  1. It has been argued that the homosexual orientation in certain cases is not the result of deliberate choice; and so the homosexual person would then have no choice but to behave in a homosexual fashion. Lacking freedom, such a person, even if engaged in homosexual activity, would not be culpable.
    Here, the Church’s wise moral tradition is necessary since it warns against generalizations in judging individual cases. In fact, circumstances may exist, or may have existed in the past, which would reduce or remove the culpability of the individual in a given instance; or other circumstances may increase it. What is at all costs to be avoided is the unfounded and demeaning assumption that the sexual behaviour of homosexual persons is always and totally compulsive and therefore inculpable. What is essential is that the fundamental liberty which characterizes the human person and gives him his dignity be recognized as belonging to the homosexual person as well. As in every conversion from evil, the abandonment of homosexual activity will require a profound collaboration of the individual with God’s liberating grace.
Also this too, just for the record…

I also found this that pertains to the discussion​

  1. What, then, are homosexual persons to do who seek to follow the Lord? Fundamentally, they are called to enact the will of God in their life by joining whatever sufferings and difficulties they experience in virtue of their condition to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross. That Cross, for the believer, is a fruitful sacrifice since from that death come life and redemption. While any call to carry the cross or to understand a Christian’s suffering in this way will predictably be met with bitter ridicule by some, it should be remembered that this is the way to eternal life for all who follow Christ.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...faith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html
 
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Thorolfr said:
How do you know whether some gay person, even one who is sexually active, is happy or not?
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I’m referring to people who are actively living the lifestyle and trying to rationalize that homosexual acts are not sinful. Again, anybody that is living in sis, that is, mortal sin, is unhappy deep inside, for the simple fact that Mortal sin separates us from God who is the source of true happiness<Goodness and Love. People living entrenched in mortal sin might fill their life with noise and entertainment to try to mask what is inside, even having euphoric experiences of sexual encounters, but it is not happiness. This phenomenon also occurs to anybody who goes after wealth, fame and all kinds of pleasures of the flesh; in the end they are miserable…
 
Redrose13 said:
Let’s say a gay person didn’t had a partner at all from the time he acknowledged that he’s a gay and didn’t had sexual acts with other men is not considered a sin. But what happened to God’s creation where a gay person was naturally designed by the most high to be a man? Isn’t it a violation against God? Just clarifying things out.
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Huh? What happened to God’s creation when someone was born blind, or autistic, or prone to alcoholism? Are those violations against God?
 
catholic1seeks said:
but this is BS and irrelevant to this thread, as are most of your posts.
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I’m just telling you the truth. “The New Reformation movement” has a specific agenda and they know that they have to begin by changing Christian attitudes from within with small seeds, in order to change beliefs about the sinfulness of homosexual acts. in order to get church goers to stop believing what gen Church teaches.

You started this thread asking for ideas for vocations for gays, Transexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, pansexuals and people questioning their orientation and gender; you were given plenty of sound ideas. And the best ideas begin with the gift of confession, and the sacraments. And if one has been active in the lifestyle, to dedicate one’s life making reparation for such sins, just like any other sin.

You insist on claiming that God makes people Transexuals and gays, and you take offense that someone might call homosexual acts abominations. I realize that my position goes against what the world teaches and against what Hollywood approves of; but understand once and for all that the reason why Hollywood and the world hates the Church’s teachings on the intrinsic evil of homosexual acts, is because the prince of this world is Satan, he’s very cunning, and he’s the father of lies. Thus he has deceived agents inside the Church, even bishops and cardinals who wear masks and do not reveal their true intentions.

All this talk about rationalizing homosexual acts, downplaying it’s sinfulness and speaking as if the Church is being cruel for depriving men from sexual companionship with other men is part of the strategy. It also denigrates God’s gift of woman as a lifelong companion for man.

We can’t mince words; there’s too much at stake. There are children, teenagers, men and women being slowly ushered into the lie of accepting and rationalizing sin. We don’t see parades and floar]yes celebrating other vices; this agenda is specifically anti-life, anti-family, anti-God and anti-Christ. Thus Paul would warn Do not be deceived.… The devil wants people to rationalize sin, because sin is whatwill keep souls from saving their souls,

“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.” John 15: 18-20
 
And the best ideas begin with the gift of confession, and the sacraments. And if one has been active in the lifestyle, to dedicate one’s life making reparation for such sins, just like any other sin.
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According to you, yes, because you frame the thread in a very different way. You’re addressing a very different issue, one of sanctity. ALL people are called to this. This thread, for the 1,000th time, is about fostering the lives of LGBT people WITHIN the Church. This assumes following church teaching – going to the sacraments, NOT having sex, etc.
 
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Gab123 said:
You started this thread asking for ideas for vocations for gays, Transexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, pansexuals and people questioning their orientation and gender; you were given plenty of sound ideas. And the best ideas begin with the gift of confession, and the sacraments. And if one has been active in the lifestyle, to dedicate one’s life making reparation for such sins, just like any other sin.
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I’ll be honest, I haven’t seen a lot in the way of actual ideas. It looks a lot like more of the same that the original complaint is - that the ideas basically amount to “go to church and don’t have sex.”

The fundamental point of this thread is that that’s a starting point, but it’s being treated as an endpoint.

I would also add that much of the frustration is that it seems we cannot have this discussion unless we, as people with SSA attraction, fall all over ourselves to apologize for what those outside the church is doing. That we’re treated as some sort of secret infiltrators trying to sneakily corrupt the church from the inside if we don’t sit in rags and ashes decrying a culture we’re not even part of except by being born in the same society.
 
As someone who used to be an active LGBT political Christian and then saw the error of my thinking and converted to Catholicism I completely agree. I think one of the great gifts of Catholic teaching is that as human beings we are more than our sexuality, it cannot be allowed to define us. So, what one;s vocation is must come down to God’s calling, our willingness to respond and the Church’s discernment.
In terms of helping ‘LGBT’ people come back to the Church, I think it is very much about speaking the truth in love. I was very lucky and found a very warm welcome from the priests and Catholic laity who I spoke to on my journey home.
 
I agree with you. I have really been surprised reading through the contributions to see how many people seem to want to take their anger out on those with SSA who are/become faithful Catholics. Effectively what they are doing is keeping people trapped behind a label, which ironically, as I understand the Church’s teaching, is exactly what she criticises the gay-rights movement for doing.
 
I understand now that there’s a difference between a homosexual act and SSA. If a person with SSA tendencies called to a vocation in the Church and he is obeying the will of God, who has the right to discourage him? Still, the Church has a lot of things to do and study over this matter. What we can do is help the Church pray for peace and wisdom in making the final decisions.
 
I think all people should be welcomed to the church. If their lifestyles (or even their personal attributes) are against the will of God as you see it, then you can try and guide them. If you can’t guide them, then you can show them love and hope that God has a plan for them.

As for LGBT members of the clergy-- if they are celibate, fine. They can identify as clergy, rather than according to their sexual identity.
 
What kind of “personal attributes” could be against the will of God?
 
Sachsen said:
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Thorolfr:
What kind of “personal attributes” could be against the will of God?
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Maybe the sort you see on display in Pride Parades.
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The definition of an attribute is “a quality or feature regarded as a characteristic or inherent part of someone or something.” I’m not sure what might be seen at a Pride parade that would be considered an inherent part of someone in the parade that God could object to.
 
Well, either it’s a choice, or it’s a personal attribute. Either way, the church can welcome people. Either they have to change their choices, or not act on the personal attributes which go against church doctrines.
 
benjamin1973 said:
Well, either it’s a choice, or it’s a personal attribute. Either way, the church can welcome people. Either they have to change their choices, or not act on the personal attributes which go against church doctrines.
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What kind of personal attributes go against Church doctrine? If your talking, for example, about someone being sexually attracted to others of the same sex, that’s not against church doctrine is it?
 
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Thorolfr said:
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benjamin1973:
Well, either it’s a choice, or it’s a personal attribute. Either way, the church can welcome people. Either they have to change their choices, or not act on the personal attributes which go against church doctrines.
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What kind of personal attributes go against Church doctrine? If your talking, for example, about someone being sexually attracted to others of the same sex, that’s not against church doctrine is it?
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24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
 
Are you trying to say same sex attraction is a sin?

If so you should know the Church does not see same sex attraction as active sinning.

Lust however is a sin

Edit: never mind 😶
 
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The attraction, if acted on, is obviously against Church doctrine. But I feel you are answering without first reading. I quite specifically stated that it was fine for clergy to have homosexual feelings so long as they are not acted on.
 
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