What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

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The imagination is part of the faculty of the intellect.

The intellect and the will need to work together to come to know the truth and to do the good.

Letting the imagination take its course in the manner you described is a misuse of it.

Nursing, entertaining thoughts is a willful act. A passing thought, needs to be hurried along.
 
St. Paul would disagree with you in Romans and 1 Corinthians and elsewhere on that point.
 
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Thorolfr said:
You might believe that same-sex relations, even those between committed partners, are a sin, but that does not mean that they are comparable to greed or alcoholism.
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1 Corinthians 6:18-19 – though please note this applies to ALL sexual sin, not just same-sex sexual sin.
 
catholic1seeks said:
Any other ideas?
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Yes. Join the bunch of service/ solidarity.
The best way to find friends is being friendly.
We learn together, as we walk the walk a lot of things,by immersion,rolling up our sleeves,praying,hands on.
Strengthened by Adoration …
So there is one idea. Find out where the solidarity bunch is or works or volunteers,dress comfortably and just go!😃
 
I was going to ask you what YOU thought the Church should do, but it does appear that you answered it. However, as to this point (the quote function is not working properly, so please bear with formatting):
3.In addition to marriage formation, our local parishes and churches on the diocesan level could form ministries and programs that actively promote vocation to single life. And by this, I don’t mean the vocation to “be single/celibate,” but rather be creative in encouraging ways of love and service that flow from such a single life.
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Absolutely not! Not only is it not true (the single life is a vocation only in the context of consecrated life or for those who have impediments to marriage/orders/religious life). Additionally, for those of us seeking heterosexual marriage, and considering how the marriage pool is “poisoned” - and let’s not forget the clergy shortage - why, for the love of all that is holy, should we invent a false vocation that makes it more difficult to find a heterosexual spouse or even shames people for seeking heterosexual marriage?
 
Norseman82 said:
I was going to ask you what YOU thought the Church should do, but it does appear that you answered it. However, as to this point (the quote function is not working properly, so please bear with formatting):
3.In addition to marriage formation, our local parishes and churches on the diocesan level could form ministries and programs that actively promote vocation to single life. And by this, I don’t mean the vocation to “be single/celibate,” but rather be creative in encouraging ways of love and service that flow from such a single life.
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Do you think that lots of heterosexual religious people would flock to the single life instead of getting married if there was a program promoting a vocation to single life? I would think that most people wouldn’t want to be single unless they didn’t have any other options and that this idea brought up by catholic1seeks would mostly appeal to those people. And how exactly has the marriage pool been “poisoned”?
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Prodigal_Son said:
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DarkLight:
I’ve heard a lot of Catholics say gay people shouldn’t have roommates or live in community, because they might become attracted to their roommate and fall into sin.
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Yup, and :roll_eyes: to that claim.
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That was an issue at the religious college I attended. A lot of students did not want to live in a dorm with a gay person.
 
Norseman82 said:
Absolutely not! Not only is it not true (the single life is a vocation only in the context of consecrated life or for those who have impediments to marriage/orders/religious life). Additionally, for those of us seeking heterosexual marriage, and considering how the marriage pool is “poisoned” - and let’s not forget the clergy shortage - why, for the love of all that is holy, should we invent a false vocation that makes it more difficult to find a heterosexual spouse or even shames people for seeking heterosexual marriage?
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How many friends have you had that, after 10-20 years of seeking earnestly and sometimes even desperately for a spouse, are still alone? I’ve had a lot. I don’t see why the Church shouldn’t give attention to the ways that they can be an integral part of God’s mission on Earth.
 
Your answer here forgets that the Church is a communion of people. The Church is a family, a society. We journey together, not alone.
 
Are you looking for a match making service to be offered by the Church?
 
Most of my friends were able to get married when they wanted to. I think the vast majority of people do get married. Whether or not they stay married is another matter.

The problem is the older you get most of the people available in the dating pool are divorced. If you have a problem with that than you don’t have much options.
 
Thorolfr said:
Do you think that lots of heterosexual religious people would flock to the single life instead of getting married if there was a program promoting a vocation to single life?
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I do. And a priest I knew thought the same and suggested that men especially would take the easy way out and avoid getting married instead of readying themselves for marriage and family. He said especially men because he said women are more self sacrificing. His was a quick comment and I don’t recall what led up to that but that comments stuck with me.

I don’t know if I would put it the way the priest did but I think there is some truth to it. Legitimizing staying single to avoid the sacrifices of marriage and family is not something I think the Church should do. I also think that those in charge of promoting vocations have approached it in a way that suggests everyone has a capital-v-Vocation (priesthood, religious or consecrated life and marriage).

When I first heard vocations being encouraged it was to the priesthood, followed quickly by vocations to the religious life; marriage was added later to discussion s about and prayers to vocations but I can remember a time when the word vocation was used it referred just to the priesthood and religious life. Marriage is vocation and one that needs prayers and support. But I question whether everyone has a big-v Vocation. Some people have made it seem so but is it what the church teaches? The church does teach that all Catholics are called to holiness and I think that is enough for singles.
 
The church does teach that all Catholics are called to holiness and I think that is enough for singles.
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I mean, this thread assumes that already.

A Christian is called to holiness. We get that.

But it’s not “enough.”

The point of this thread, again, is emphasizing that LGBT persons in particular often have similar shared challenges in the church, often unique to them. These challenges come from multiple places and influence each other (from lack of empathy to fully-fledged bigotry from pastors and parishioners; uncertainty of the life of a gay person in a culture that so emphasizes marriage, romance, and sex and in a church that has forgotten much of its communal past; etc.)

Humans are communal creatures. I have re-framed this thread to a more particular understanding of vocation. When I wonder about vocation for LGBT people in the Church, I’m talking about it in the way that Eve Tushnet does: How are LGBT people called to find and share love with other people? If they cannot marry and must shun their romantic and intimate desires, then how can the Church foster a “YES!” plan for gay people? How can LGBT persons form meaningful, lifelong relationships outside of marriage that are still full of companionship, service, and love? How can we better listen to the needs of LGBT people?

If a gay people came up to you [or anyone reading this] and said "I love my Catholic faith, but I have a deep desire to be in a romantic relationship. I wish I could get married. For a long time, as long as I knew I was gay, I’ve wanted to share love and form a family with another person…

…But I also know the Church’s teaching. So what should I do? How can I as a gay person in the Church flourish? How can I translate my desires for love, family, and companionship in a way consistent with Catholic teaching?"

What would you say to such a person?
 
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My quick answer is community and ministry. But this deserves a more details and thoughtful answer. I’ve been holding back my thoughts and I need to put them together. This is something I think about a lot but my ideas are kind of jumbled mess because I left them that way not knowing what I could offer since I’m not LGBT. I’m happy to brainstorm and will be back later with hopefully less jumbled thoughts.
 
Yes, and we all have our own crosses to bear. We also must never forget that when people are in the state of mortal sin they cut themselves off from the Body of Christ; thus it is important to not rationalize sin, confirm others in sin, toy around with mortal sin or deny sin. The reason God has infinite mercy for us sinners is that He knows the terrible abyss that awaits us if we die in the state of unrepented mortal sin.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
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Thorolfr:
Do you think that lots of heterosexual religious people would flock to the single life instead of getting married if there was a program promoting a vocation to single life?
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I do. And a priest I knew thought the same and suggested that men especially would take the easy way out and avoid getting married instead of readying themselves for marriage and family. He said especially men because he said women are more self sacrificing. His was a quick comment and I don’t recall what led up to that but that comments stuck with me.

I don’t know if I would put it the way the priest did but I think there is some truth to it. Legitimizing staying single to avoid the sacrifices of marriage and family is not something I think the Church should do. I also think that those in charge of promoting vocations have approached it in a way that suggests everyone has a capital-v-Vocation (priesthood, religious or consecrated life and marriage).
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To be honest, I think that men are much less likely than women to want to live a single, celibate life. According to an article at WebMD, “Sex Drive: How Do Men and Women Compare?”:
1. Men think more about sex.
The majority of adult men under 60 think about sex at least once a day, reports Laumann. Only about one-quarter of women say they think about it that frequently.

As men and women age, each fantasize less, but men still fantasize about twice as often.
In a survey of studies comparing male and female sex drives, Roy Baumeister, a social psychologist at Florida State University, found that men reported more spontaneous sexual arousal and had more frequent and varied fantasies.

2. Men seek sex more avidly.
“Men want sex more often than women at the start of a relationship, in the middle of it, and after many years of it,” Baumeister concludes after reviewing several surveys of men and women. This isn’t just true of heterosexuals, he says; gay men also have sex more often than lesbians at all stages of the relationship. Men also say they want more sex partners in their lifetime, and are more interested in casual sex.

Men are more likely to seek sex even when it’s frowned upon or even outlawed: About two-thirds say they masturbate…Prostitution is still mostly a phenomenon of men seeking sex with women, rather than the other way around…Nuns do a better job of fulfilling their vows of chastity than priests.
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https://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare#1

I doubt that most people, both men and women, would chose to live a life without sex or physical intimacy if it was possible not to. I admire people who freely chose to lead such a life, but speaking for myself, I can’t even imagine being able to do so. That’s why I couldn’t be Catholic. I can’t live single and I can’t marry a woman since I have zero attraction to the opposite sex. And because of my own circumstances, I also can’t really live alone.
 
But this doesn’t exactly get at the question. All of what you said is already assumed in the OP.

I have to repeat:
If a gay people came up to you [or anyone reading this] and said "I love my Catholic faith, but I have a deep desire to be in a romantic relationship. I wish I could get married. For a long time, as long as I knew I was gay, I’ve wanted to share love and form a family with another person…

…But I also know the Church’s teaching. So what should I do? How can I as a gay person in the Church flourish? How can I translate my desires for love, family, and companionship in a way consistent with Catholic teaching?"

What would you say to such a person?
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If your answer is simply “Live chaste, pick up your cross,” then you aren’t addressing the issue at hand.
 
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We also must never forget that when people are in the state of mortal sin they cut themselves off from the Body of Christ; thus it is important to not rationalize sin, confirm others in sin, toy around with mortal sin or deny sin.
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This thread isn’t about rationalizing mortal sin…

Here is a SHORT two-minute video that I recommend you watch to get a better idea of where I’m coming from:

 
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