What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

[catholic1seeks]

I doubt that most people, both men and women, would chose to live a life without sex or physical intimacy if it was possible not to. I admire people who freely chose to lead such a life, but speaking for myself, I can’t even imagine being able to do so. That’s why I couldn’t be Catholic. I can’t live single and I can’t marry a woman since I have zero attraction to the opposite sex. And because of my own circumstances, I also can’t really live alone.

The Catholic Church will probably never change its teaching on sex and marriage, at least not anytime soon. I suppose it will have to address the issue sometime in the future, as questions like this thread are becoming more and more abundant as the culture begins moving farther away from the Catholic conception of marriage.

But precisely because marriage is a no-go for gay Catholics is the reason why the Church needs to be more open, listening, and empathetic… and creative with how LGBT people can meet these same desires for intimacy and companionship outside of marriage.

If the church could do this – or rather, if our churches and parishes and support groups could better do this – then the dilemma wouldn’t be as sharp: “Will I be Catholic and deny this half of myself [gay]?”

I certainly understand why you as a gay non-Catholic wouldn’t want to be Catholic. The desire for love and intimacy and even sex are purely human desires. They are God-made. And they are strong. So if it looks like the Catholic Church is doing a bad job at making more room for people who don’t fit the “hetero- mode” of marriage and family, then that’s our wake-up call to start thinking.

Some people will challenge you by saying you are not looking for the Truth or making sacrifices, as Christians should “carry their crosses.” But the point is that many of these people don’t understand just how life-shaping being gay/having SSA can be.

 

[catholic1seeks]

In fact @Thorolfr, your post should be a wake-up call to those Catholics (on this thread and elsewhere) who say that our churches don’t need to do anything more to foster LGBT vocations or support them in the church. Clearly, you do not perceive yourself becoming Catholic precisely because the Catholic Church does not seem to be addressing the concerns of the typical gay person.

[However, I will say that there are plenty of Catholic parishes that are welcoming of LGBT people, and are even open about it. This includes gay couples. In fact, there is a gay couple at my church. The real world is not always “black and white” as CAF can make it seem.]

 

[po18guy]

Post deleted due mental illness.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Do we then allow them the perversity that their flesh desires? How about patronizing prostitutes? Habitual and obsessive masturbaters? The porn addicted? Remember that the canard of “consenting adults” normally means that their human dignity is being trashed.

Huh?

Considering your response, my prescription for you is to go back and watch some of the video featuring Eve Tushnet. For I don’t really think you’re quite getting the concern of this thread…

I can’t recommend it enough.

 

[Thorolfr]

An SSA person CAN get married! To the opposite sex.

Not all of them could get married. If someone has zero attraction to the opposite sex, it does make having sex rather difficult, especially for a man. Certain body parts just don’t rise to the occasion if there is no sexual attraction.

 

[po18guy]

Post deleted due to mental illness.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Huh? I think you are asking the impossible. Repentance without repentance. Sin that is not sinful. Malleable truth.

You keep seeing sin when that isn’t even the topic.

An SSA person CAN get married! To the opposite sex.

Granted they do not want to, and that is their difficulty; that is their burden; that is their cross.

Um…so you would enthusiastically encourage a person to marry someone who was SSA? Because I don’t think that it’s as easy as you suggest above.

Do not think that ours are any easier - they just have the world on their side, and alleged victimhood to either oppose or indulge.

Wow. Way to minimize discrimination, shunning from friends and family, hearing that you are disgusting and/or going to hell (as a child, even), bullying, and violence.

They can decide to live chastely, as difficult as that is.

That’s. What. This. Thread. Is. About.

Do we then allow them the perversity that their flesh desires? How about patronizing prostitutes? Habitual and obsessive masturbaters? The porn addicted? Remember that the canard of “consenting adults” normally means that their human dignity is being trashed.

You missed the point of the original post and all of the original poster’s subsequent posts. I don’t know if you just assumed and didn’t bother reading the OP, your reading compensation sucks, or you didn’t bother to think about what the OP is asking.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I think everyone here has the potential to be helpful.

I just get frustrated when people keep making the same straw men. I’m not advocating change in the church’s sexual moral teaching. That’s a separate issue.

In fact, my question assumes the church’s moral teaching. For it is because gay people can’t enter into same-sex marriages or romantic unions that the question of life in the church is relevant.

 

[Gab123]

Some people will challenge you by saying you are not looking for the Truth or making sacrifices, as Christians should “carry their crosses.” But the point is that many of these people don’t understand just how life-shaping being gay/having SSA can be.

Yes, especially when the world and the devil is convincing everyone that there is nothing sinful about the gay lifestyle. Adictions are hard to break away from; and when they become obsessions they become a way of life that people identify with through and through and it’s like trying to reason with a heroin addict, only that the addict is convinced that there is nothing wrong with doing heroin, and wants to convince the whole world that there is nothing wrong with it, like a slavery that one wants to be a slave to. The good news is that Christ can set us free from the slavery of sin.

The key is to replace a self-centered life with a God-centered life. The whole point is salvation, so when we die we can graduate to the next stage of life. Life on earth is short and could end any minute; it’s a waste of life to miss the point of carrying our crosses. The cross is what sanctifies is, and everyone has their own crosses. I would recommend reading the Bible,focus on all of the New Testament, and realize that it’s only a matter if time that our bodies will be decomposing, and our spirit will reap the fruits of our labors on earth…

 

[catholic1seeks]

@Gab123

(1) Homosexual orientiation/same sex attraction is not an “addiction.”

(2) Probably just about everyone here agrees we ought to aim for a God-centered life, and that Christ is the Good News.

(3) Even though some participants in this forum think that gay romantic relationships are OK (naturally enough, since not everyone here is Catholic), I’ve made it clear time and time again that I’m NOT talking about justifying same-sex sex.

(4) The Cross may sanctify us, and we ought to carry our own crosses. But there should not be unnecessary crosses. Part of the cross of gay people in the church includes: (1) Not being listened to; (2) being discriminated against or shown blunt hatred; (3) and just being neglected and having to go at life alone. Are you saying you want gay people to have these additional, unnecessary crosses in the Church?

 

[Norseman82]

Are you looking for a match making service to be offered by the Church?

Did you just compare me to Hitler?

 

[Norseman82]

I doubt that most people, both men and women, would chose to live a life without sex or physical intimacy if it was possible not to. I admire people who freely chose to lead such a life, but speaking for myself, I can’t even imagine being able to do so. That’s why I couldn’t be Catholic. I can’t live single and I can’t marry a woman since I have zero attraction to the opposite sex. And because of my own circumstances, I also can’t really live alone.

Please clarify: are you saying that you can’t be Catholic because the Church upholds the biblical prohibitions against homosexual marriage (since it regards homosexual sex a sin)?

 

[Sarcelle]

No, I did not.

 

[Norseman82]

Where did I say you were Hitler?

Similarly, where did I say in my post that I was looking for the Church to play matchmaker?

Now you know how it feels…

 

[Sarcelle]

I feel puzzled.

It was just question. There was no malice in it.

I apologize if you feel offended.

 

[Norseman82]

If a gay people came up to you [or anyone reading this] and said "I love my Catholic faith, but I have a deep desire to be in a romantic relationship. I wish I could get married. For a long time, as long as I knew I was gay, I’ve wanted to share love and form a family with another person…

…But I also know the Church’s teaching. So what should I do? How can I as a gay person in the Church flourish? How can I translate my desires for love, family, and companionship in a way consistent with Catholic teaching?"

What would you say to such a person?

I would tell them that sometimes you can’t have it all. I know it’s a hard pill to swallow, but sometimes one has to make hard choices, as some of the desires are contradictory (eq. wanting a gay romantic relationship vs. living in a way consistent with Church teaching).

 

[Norseman82]

I feel puzzled.

It was just question. There was no malice in it.

I apologize if you feel offended.

The context had to do with “vocation to single life” and why it should not be promoted aggressively because of the harm it can cause in general if not applied as it was meant (consecrated life or as a “parking lot” for those with impediments to other vocations). Saying “don’t injure the person” is not the same as “do surgery to an injured person”, although that can be a separate thread.

 

[Gab123]

1. Homosexual orientiation/same sex attraction is not an “addiction.”

Homosexuality is a psychological condition that has become an addiction for many. Just like those who are sexually attracted to children. certainly not born that way. let’s not mince words; just as the political left argues that abortion does not kill a human life, they also argue that homosexuality is normal. It’s simply not the truth; to put it simply, It’s a big fat lie. And we know who the father of lies is.

Part of the cross of gay people in the church includes: (1) Not being listened to

Maybe it’s just pushback against all the pressure of normalization of homosexuality by Hollywood and the political left,; plus the moral rot that has already dy infested our public schools; add to that the Supreme Court institutionalizing sodomy and the Anglican Church ordaining actively homosexuals, while threatening to punish anybody who does not approve of gay marriage…

being discriminated against or shown blunt hatred;

not sure what you mean by discriminatiom; As for hatred, there is no room for hatred in the Church. I think the hatred is against the Church and it’s teachings.

(3) and just being neglected and having to go at life alone. Are you saying you want gay people to have these additional, unnecessary crosses in the Church?

One could easily be thinking “please spare us the self pity” right now. Do realize that the Church allows people to have close friends, roommates, companions, dogs, cats; the only stipulation is: DON’T HAVE SEX WITH THEM. Sexuality is for marriage between a man and a woman. SEX OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE IS A SIN FOR EVERYONE. Again: Sex outside of marriage is a sin for everyone. So if you don’t like women, then give up the idea of having sex. You don’t need sex to survive.

 

[Norseman82]

To be honest, I think that men are much less likely than women to want to live a single, celibate life. According to an article at WebMD, “Sex Drive: How Do Men and Women Compare?”:

I agree, I have noticed that the single celibate life is more pushed by women, perhaps as a result of the feminist movement of the 1960s/1970s that kept on pushing “you don’t need a spouse / children / family”.

 

[Gab123]

If a gay people came up to you [or anyone reading this] and said " I love my Catholic faith, but I have a deep desire to be in a romantic relationship. I wish I could get married. For a long time, as long as I knew I was gay, I’ve wanted to share love and form a family with another person…

…But I also know the Church’s teaching. So what should I do? How can I as a gay person in the Church flourish? How can I translate my desires for love, family, and companionship in a way consistent with Catholic teaching?"

What would you say to such a person?

The problem is that ”gay” men are discriminating against women. If you want a family so bad then find a woman and get married and have a family. Use the organs for their purpose. In the past people got married all the time to women they weren’t necessarily sexually attracted to, as marriages were often arranged, yet they wanted a family and they loved their wives. Love is not a feeling; love is sacrifice in action. Discriminating against a person just because you are not attracted to them is not Christian love. Ask any marriage after a number of years and the sexual drive is gone. So then what; are spouses supposed to find someone else they are sexually attracted to have sex with? The gay normalization movement is not from God.