What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

[OsculeturMeOsculo]

Love of Christ should overcome vices and passions.

 

[Louis2]

God made no mistake in creating people. He created gays the way they are and He loves them. You should not decide against the will of God. If you do so, you are committing a sin.

 

[Louis2]

Did you not hear what the Pope said. The Pope accepts them and says that God loves them. Why do you want to impose your ideas? Follow the Pope. He is right. You are bigot if you go against what the Pope says.

 

[Thorolfr]

Instead, why not encourage people with SSA to discover that the opposite sex is a better complement all around? There are plenty of stories of people with SSA who have reordered their attractions and found a spouse of the opposite sex and had a family…

The number of people who claim to have completely change their orientation is fairly small. The largest ex-gay organization, Exodus International, closed down in 2013. It once had, according to Wikipedia, “250 local ministries in the United States and Canada and over 150 ministries in 17 other countries.” When it closed down, its president, Alan Chambers, had the following to say at Exodus International’s 38th annual meeting:

I am sorry for the pain and hurt many of you have experienced. I am sorry that some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt you felt when your attractions didn’t change. I am sorry we promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual orientation that stigmatized parents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_International

That last apology is kind of important, because Exodus and many other ex-gay organization had been telling the people who came to them for help in changing their orientation that people become gay because of their parents, and I’ve seen people here in CAF repeat this claim as well. I know a gay men who went through one of those programs who blamed his mother for making him gay because of what he’d been told.

Chambers apologized for the Exodus slogan, “Change Is Possible” and said the following in a speech he gave to the Gay Christian Network conference in 2012:

The majority of people that I have met, and I would say the majority meaning 99.9% of them have not experienced a change in their orientation.

Even the study by Jones and Yarhouse which looked at 73 participants in Exodus ministries (a fairly small sample) found that only 15% (11 of them) reported being successful in “substantial reductions in homosexual attraction and substantial conversion to heterosexual attraction”. Another 23% considered themselves successful, but only at remaining chaste, not at becoming heterosexual. The other 62% did not consider themselves successful.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Having a disordered attraction is not sinful; however there are plenty of cases where people who had SSA have managed to resolve the disordered attraction and pursue a normal heterosexual relationship with the opposite sex and go on to be happily married with children. Unless you are saying they are all lying.

Having SSA does not imply that one is not attracted to the opposite sex. Most of the people you’re talking about were always attracted to the opposite sex, and so they didn’t “resolve” anything. They just married a person they loved.

That’s what the gay lobby wants everyone to believe. For a man to have a male body, fully equipped to procreate children, designed to complement a female body, yet have a sexual attraction to another man is the result of psychological conditioning

This universal claim you’re making is conclusively disproven by my personal experience. I was attracted to men at age 11 without ever KNOWING that men could do sexual things together, without ever SEEING such things, and without ever having had sexual contact with another person. How can one be conditioned to desire something one has never experienced?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

If someone who is suffering from depression uses antidepressants, the goal is to make them feel better and not be depressed or as depressed as what they were. So, although antidepressants might not completely heal someone of their depression so that they will no longer suffer from depression without medication, can’t we say that antidepressants are “therapeutic” for some people?

Sure, but a sex change operation is not “taken on a daily basis”. It is irreversible. If you don’t do well with Zoloft, we can always try something else, but if you end up not liking that operation, you’re out of luck. That’s why I say that research is important.

Moreover, I would suggest that antidepressants – when properly prescribed and used – DO cure the disease of depression. They should only be prescribed when the depression is a brain chemistry issue, and they should (to whatever degree) cure that issue.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

But the catechism of the Catholic Church describes homosexual tendencies as a psychological condition.

This is false. The Church says that they have a “psychological genesis”. So does my taste for bacon, or my opinion about Bach. Every thought and every desire we have has a psychological genesis, since it all exists within the mind (the “psyche”).

 

[Prodigal_Son]

You are bigot if you go against what the Pope says.

Throwing around the word “bigot” is trying to intimidate people without convincing them. It’s a vicious thing to do.

 

[Mtdobbs]

Thank you

 

[Annie]

LGTB people have an attraction towards something which is misdirected. Single people with lustful desires have a similar problem, but not misdirected. The The difference is in the direction, iyswim.

However, our society totally sells single heterosexual sex. Right? It is the end-all and be-all, the summit of living! And this is very wrong. They make sex be something the opposite of what God intended.

Now, sex has come to be the repository of how we show love, and people feel like the Church is “mean” because this primary “expression of love” is forbidden to only certain (e.g. LGBT) people. (In actuality of course, it is not permitted to any person outside the context of marriage)

So maybe the “vocation” of LGBT people is to show us how to live chastely, to get us away from the idea that sex is how we show love, that there are equally if not more satisfying ways of showing love than sexual acts? Because when single people see an LGBT person living chastely, embracing chastity, they know that that person has committed to something more than the single people think/know/suspect they ought to do.

 

[Gab123]

God made no mistake in creating people. He created gays the way they are and He loves them. You should not decide against the will of God. If you do so, you are committing a sin.

Are you saying God created people sexually attracted to children too? Don’t be silly; our fallen nature is the result of Original Sin. This is Catholic teaching…

 

[Gab123]

The Church says that they have a “psychological genesis”

You’re confusing things. . The catechism states that the Psychological Genesis of homosexuality remains unexplaine, meaning it is not certain exactly what circumstances led to the psychological condition;”genesis” means beginning.In other words, the psychological beginning is not exactly known, though it dusually develops around puberty or before; there are many theories. The catechism goes on to explain:
Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

so the calling is no different than any other soul struggling with a sinful inclination, which we all have…

 

[Prodigal_Son]

The catechism states that the Psychological Genesis of homosexuality remains unexplaine, meaning it is not certain exactly what circumstances led to the psychological condition

I agree. But the Church does not imply that it “can be treated”, nor does it say that it is a “psychological disorder”. The Church says that gay sex is MORALLY disordered, but it is agnostic on these other points.

 

[Gab123]

Most of the people you’re talking about were always attracted to the opposite sex,

How do you know this? In the video the man argued that he always was only attracted to men, before he met his wife.

I was attracted to men at age 11 without ever KNOWING that men could do sexual things together, without ever SEEING such things, and without ever having had sexual contact with another person. How can one be conditioned to desire something one has never experienced?

Realize that It is quite normal for children to be attracted to the same sex; usually boys think girls are “yucky” until puberty kicks in; so what happens between that stage and the pubescent stage can condition a young mind; as you said, you were exposed to bodies of men in magazines. The devil is good at planting tiny seeds, so does the world especially today. And the impact of pornography has a huge, huge impact on the mind. Anything good can be corrupted.

 

[Mtdobbs]

Gab, there is a Church approved apostolate called “Courage”. Perhaps you have heard of them. They are an organization that supports the teachings of the Church and encourages chastity. The apostolate was endorsed by the Pontifical Council for the Family in 1994. The 5 goals of courage are:

-To live chaste lives in accordance with the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching on homosexuality (Chastity);

-To dedicate our entire lives to Christ through service to others, spiritual reading, prayer, meditation, individual spiritual direction, frequent attendance at Mass, and the frequent reception of the sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Eucharist (Prayer and Dedication);

-To foster a spirit of fellowship in which we may share with one another our thoughts and experiences, and so ensure that no one will have to face the problems of homosexuality alone (Fellowship);

-To be mindful of the truth that chaste friendships are not only possible but necessary in a chaste Christian life; and to encourage one another in forming and sustaining these friendships (Support);

-To live lives that may serve as good examples to others (Good Example/Role Model).

This Church sanctioned apostolate, does not list that one of their goals is to “change” people from homosexual to heterosexual. Though there has been success of therapies based on trying to help people “turn off the switch” in their minds, the success has been on a very very minimal scale and it has most likely done greater damage to more than it has helped. I would even argue that the persons who were able to “transition” back to heterosexual and get married weren’t explicitly homosexual in the first place.

 

[Gab123]

the Church does not imply that it “can be treated”, nor does it say that it is a “psychological disorder”.

Again, the Church teaches that the psychological beginning remains mostly unexplained, but emphasizes that acts of homosexuality are a grave depravity and intrinsically disordered, as they do not proceed from a genuine sexual complementarity, thus under no circumstances can the acts be approved.
As for treating it, there are plenty of cases where men who exclusively had homosexual tendencies since their youth later developed an attraction to women; after all, the male body is made for the female body, so it is only natural for men to develop an attraction, once the mental block is overcome…

 

[Gab123]

This Church sanctioned apostolate, does not list that one of their goals is to “change” people from homosexual to heterosexual. Though there has been success of therapies based on trying to help people “turn off the switch” in their minds, the success has been on a very very minimal scale and it has most likely done greater damage to more than it has helped. I would even argue that the persons who were able to “transition” back to heterosexual and get married weren’t explicitly homosexual in the first place.

The Courage Apostolate is great, and this is an example of the Church already reaching out to people with this weakness, so hopefully the OP of this topic is aware of it.

Again, the goal of the Christian journey is not to change attractions, but to overcome the sinful attractions so we don’t act on them.

As far as developing a heterosexual attraction, this is an option for those who struggle with the idea of living a lifetime without sexual intercourse and want to have a family; thus the intercourse has to be open to children; l wouldn’t advise it to somebody who is not committed to chastity and the Christian journey…

As far as as you arguing that men who transition to heterosexuality weren’t explicitly homosexual, this man who went through it argues against your theory; listen carefully to what he said about being self-identified as gay:

.

 

[Sarcelle]

I must take exception to your claim that science denies that the zygote is a living thing. There is the field of embryology that specializes in learning how an embryo develops.

It is a lot of pro-abortion folks who claim that the zygote and subsequent embryo are not alive or human. If they cite science as their justification, than they are a lot more ignorant of science than they think.

 

[Gab123]

I must take exception to your claim that science denies that the zygote is a living thing. There is a whole field of embryology that specializes in how an embryo develops.

It is pro-abortion folks who claim that. If they cite science as their justification, than they are a lot more ignorant of science than they think.

Yes, that’s the point; political agendas, not real science or medicine, is behind the abortion and pro-gay agenda…

 

[Gab123]

The negative thoughts about it only festered into denial and suppression, not healing. It’s not that simple.

I suppose if one associates all the negative aspects of smoking and eating junk food, and looking a pornograpgy one can develop a real dislike for it even after living a lifetime of smoking and eating junk food and watching pornography; obviously the temptations may always be there, but the attraction can be shrunk, if not completely at leas kept in heavy chains. But I do agree that mere denial and suppression is not the answer; ther has to be a transformation from within by looking at the attraction itself and conditioning the mind to understand it as an abomination which offends God.

But grace is really the most powerful medicine. Here are the 15 promises of the Holy Rosary to those who develop a sincere daily devotion to it:

#1 Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive signal graces.

#2 I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.

#3 The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.

#4 The Rosary will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire for eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.

#5 The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.

#6 Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.

#7 Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the sacraments of the Church.

#8 Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenititude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the saints in paradise.

#9 I shall deliver from Purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.

#10 The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.

#11 You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary.

#12 All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.

#13 I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death.

#14 All who recite the Rosary are my sons and daughters, and brothers and sisters of my only Son Jesus Christ.

#15 Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.