What are your ideas for the LGBT person's vocation in the Church?

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Gab123 said:
i’m not talking about you, but the idea behind forming special roles and vocations, which specifically single out and identify certain people. Just be Catholic, live the faith, grow in holiness; people from all walks of life live celibate lives.
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OK, let’s build on this then. To what extent do you think that on a social level, a lay celibate Catholic fits well into the typical parish community? How likely is the typical Catholic in the pew to encounter such a type, and actually pity him, because he automatically associates celibacy with loneliness, rather than acknowledging that he has (or at least likely has) a charism, considered objectively superior to the married life, for which he will be rewarded greatly in heaven? How common is it that parish events are largely geared towards married people with families, who receive parish support? Let’s remove the “gay” question for a moment, and consider the general case of anyone who is unable to marry.

Some people here (including yours truly and the OP) have mentioned the promotion or esteem of lay celibacy in our wider parish culture would do quite well for SSA types, precisely because the most viable path for most of them will be lay celibacy. But you don’t have to limit such a promotion specifically to SSA people.

You don’t care much for programs specifically geared towards gay people, yet you were fine with Courage, which is, well, a program geared specifically towards gay people to help them live holy lives within the context of a larger community. However, Courage doesn’t have to be the only such program that is guided by the true teachings of the Church.

So far these are two points that have been brought up. Are you opposed to either one of these? If so, why?
 
Volunteer at Catholic Women’s Shelters for abused and homeless women with children, sing in the Choir, volunteer at BirthRight/be a sidewalk counsellor, join the Altar Society, Stewardship council, KoC, do Perpetual Adoration, be a greeter, do Church landscaping or maintenance, do Church decorating, help St.Vincent DePaul societies.
 
Um, being gay is not allowed by the Church… There is someone who made a video on Love vs. Lust that explains it all much better than I could. 😃 It’s called, "What is the Biggest Lie People Are Being Told About Love? Q&A with Jason Evert
 
una_ecclesia said:
To what extent do you think that on a social level, a lay celibate Catholic fits well into the typical parish community?
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Be active in apostolate, there are many to choose from; helping the less fortunate, etc. be active in the corporal and spiritual works of mercy. And if you’re a man, start looking at women as God’s gift to man.
 
I agree with that, but that doesn’t answer my question.

(Also, why the condition about the man to look at women in a certain way, but not that if you are a woman to look at men in a certain way? )
 
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una_ecclesia said:
that doesn’t answer my question.
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Ok. What do you think St Paul would suggest? What would Mother Teresa say?
Dear Mother Teresa, we have some healthy single and muscular men who want to be celibate because they are not sexually attracted to women, but are lonely because they are not allowed to have a romantic sexual relationship with other men; what do you suggest they should with their life to not feel lonely?
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“The greatest disease in the West today is not TB or leprosy; it is being unwanted, unloved, and uncared for. We can cure physical diseases with medicine, but the only cure for loneliness, despair, and hopelessness is love. There are many in the world who are dying for a piece of bread but there are many more dying for a little love. The poverty in the West is a different kind of poverty – it is not only a poverty of loneliness but also of spirituality. There’s a hunger for love, as there is a hunger for God.-Mother Teresa”

I would say to spend your life ministering to people in need. If you’re healthy and single, find a cure to your loneliness by serving the needs of others, especially those who are really suffering. The sick, the elderly and shut-ins, etc. while having good friendships with people from all walks of life. Remember, we’re all on a pilgrimage.

One of the highest rates of suicide is in the actively ‘gay” community, among people having homosexual relationships and same sex partners. AIDS was a scourge of the gay community the result of abominable sexual practices. Thus yearning for such relationships and lamenting not having one can be cured by simply knowing that such relationships would not make you at all happy.
 
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(Healthy and muscular men? Ok…)

So you acknowledge then the potential for loneliness among those who have to be celibate?
Mother Teresa’s quote works quite well with what others are trying to point out here to you. It actually sounds a lot more like a statement for us as parishioners of a Church to fulfill for one who is or could very well be lonely. Involvement in ministries is great, but the lay celibate shouldn’t be reduced to a volunteer. He should be a part of the social life and relationships within a parish (heck, we all should be… most families in most Churches are themselves isolated).
 
una_ecclesia said:
So you acknowledge then the potential for loneliness among those who have to be celibate?
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Again, I would say to find a cure to loneliness by serving the needs of others, especially those who are really suffering. The sick, the elderly and shut-ins, etc. while having good friendships with people from all walks of life. Remember, we’re all on a pilgrimage.

One of the highest rates of suicide is in the actively ‘gay” community, among people having homosexual relationships and same sex partners. AIDS was a scourge of the gay community the result of abominable sexual practices. Thus yearning for such relationships and lamenting not having one can be cured by simply knowing that such relationships would not make you at all happy.

One thing that should not be done is to normalize homosexuality.
 
Gab123 said:
One of the highest rates of suicide is in the actively ‘gay” community, among people having homosexual relationships and same sex partners
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Sure. But many of these people ran to the gay community and the toxicity common in it in part because they did not integrate well with their own parishes and families, and this was in large part because the latter just felt then to be icky. Many ere kicked out, were told that their having the attractions, without even acting in them, made them condenmable.

By relationships within a parish, I’m speaking in particular of the “disinterested friendships” that the catechism is talking about, the ones encouraged by Courage ministries, or the friendships that people like Tushnet, Belgau, and Hill have talked about. These are not sexual or romantic relationships. They don’t “normalize” homosexuality.
 
una_ecclesia said:
many of these people ran to the gay community and the toxicity common in it in part because they did not integrate well with their own parishes and families, and this was in large part because the latter just felt then to be icky. Many ere kicked out, were told that their having the attractions, without even acting in them, made them condenmable.
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I think it would be best if everyone with SSA just kept it to themselves instead of making a big production about it. Live your quiet life in service of others, growing in holiness and avoid the rainbow crowd and it’s culture at all costs. Cultivate true friendships and if you’re a man, ponder what it means that God gave man a woman as a companion. Grow to love women for who they are and find a female mate that understands you and marry her. Have a family, raise children, grow old become a grandfather and die in God’s grace and off you go to eternal bliss. Another option is to live your quiet life in service of others, growing in holiness, avoid the rainbow crowd like the plague, cultivate true friendships and ponder how much suffering there is in the world, and how being single without the heavy task and responsibility of raising a family, allows you to be free to help those in need through the corporal and spiritual works of mercy; grow old, exert every ounce of energy living and spreading the gospel of Christ, die in God’s grace and off you go to eternal bliss.

And for all you muscular types, spend much less time in the gym looking in the mirror and spend much more time looking into the soul and getting that in shape?
 
So anyway,

I see these as several paths for LGBT people in the Church to live authentic lives, faithful to church teaching:
  • Entering a religious community
  • Maybe? Priesthood
  • Belonging to a Catholic (or other Christian) intentional community
  • Intentionally & consistently living with a group of friends
  • Living with family or extended family
  • Committing oneself & living with one friend in particular
  • Entering into a celibate & committed partnership
  • Marry (the member of the opposite sex)
  • Enter into a same-sex marriage/union – disapproved by the Church
Now all of these are ways a gay Christian could find himself called to love, relationship, and service. The last one, of course, is not promoted in the Catholic Church.

Now, seeing that (1) the Catholic Church does NOT approve of gay marriage or same-sex romantic unions, and (2) marriage and romantic relationships are the CHIEF (if not ONLY) relationships exalted in the West (including, often, in our churches), then the need for this thread follows. This thread is asking how our churches can better foster and promote these other means as legitimate, life-giving modes of relationship and love.

P.S./BTW – the above does not exhaust the meaning or extent of “vocation,” even for LGBT people. Rather, this thread is meant to discuss alternative vocations to marriage in particular.
 
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I think it would be best if everyone with SSA just kept it to themselves instead of making a big production about it. Live your quiet life in service of others, growing in holiness and avoid the rainbow crowd and it’s culture at all costs.
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We know your view, and it’s not pertinent to this thread. At all. So please, continue to spend time on this thread, but know you may not have many willing to listen. That is, perhaps spend your time doing something else.
 
Gab123 said:
Another option is to live your quiet life in service of others, growing in holiness, avoid the rainbow crowd like the plague, cultivate true friendships and ponder how much suffering there is in the world, and how being single without the heavy task and responsibility of raising a family, allows you to be free to help those in need through the corporal and spiritual works of mercy; grow old, exert every ounce of energy living and spreading the gospel of Christ, die in God’s grace and off you go to eternal bliss.
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That sounds nice 🙂
 
Note-- there are many Anglican churches and individuals who do not embrace SSM or homosexual activity and in fact have left the Episcopal church and the Anglican church of Canada over these very issues. Best to keep that clear and not use the blanket term “Anglican.”
Thanks! 🙂
 
anon10271182 said:
Note-- there are many Anglican churches and individuals who do not embrace SSM or homosexual activity and in fact have left the Episcopal church and the Anglican church of Canada over these very issues. Best to keep that clear and not use the blanket term “Anglican.”
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Yes, this is true, thus the goal of the agenda-driven gradualism inside the Catholic Church is to normalize homosexuality and divide the Church much like it did in the Anglican Church; obviously the Church will always survive, though it may be smaller and underground. Thus the nefarious and insidious march hides behind the mask of victimhood, pity, inclusiveness and tolerance. They’ve successfully brainwashed even Catholics with SSA to identify themselves by the rainbow-approved terminology. It’s a wicked and disgusting perversion coming directly from hell…
 
catholic1seeks said:
the above does not exhaust the meaning or extent of “vocation,” even for LGBT people.
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I think the first step for a Catholic is to stop using the rainbow LGBTQx terminology, I mean, what is the vocation of the Catholic Transsexual, or the Catholic Pansexual or the Catholic BDSM or “Bear” Community? Why not just refer to them as men and women who don’t want to marry the opposite sex, people who struggle with unnatural lustful inclinations?
 
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I think the first step for a Catholic is to stop using the rainbow LGBTQx terminology, I mean, what is the vocation of the Catholic Transsexual, or the Catholic Pansexual or the Catholic BDSM or “Bear” Community?
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At this point, are you just trying to forge a comment?
 
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