What are your thoughts on women dressing modestly?

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I have no interest in false modesty, by which I mean a general shame of the body. In my opinion, you could be at a nude beach and behave with decorum and modesty in mannerism. Or, you could wear a long dress that is formed in just the right way, and walk in just the right way, to be very seductive, maybe inappropriately so.

In general, though, I’d say that if a woman is trying too hard to draw attention to her physical appeal, there’s disgust there-- because she’s aiming for animal instincts rather than a spiritual connection.
 
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I was coming out of early morning daily Mass and got to talking with one of the other attendees … who happened to be a court judge.

And he gave me an uncle lecture about “custody of the eyes”.
 
I will keep this short as it´s a) beside the OP´s Question and b) makes me angry to read some stuff here.

-only speaking for germany, a realy high number of rape and sexual abuse in general happens in the family as domestic violence(in marriage, between spouses, friends). I thought differnet when I was younger, then came the moment when I sat down at the waiting point of a women´s shelter. The statistical numbers were shown there. I will never forget this. You won´t maybe imagine how many conservative looking women were also there because of rape.
-I am glad this women´s shelter was run by the church, because when I read some stuff here, I have not the best image of a catholic view on sex crimes.
-“the skirt is too short” is like “her veil was too sheer” or “her burqa was too fancy”. Do you really believe this excuse ? Works well also in Arabia. This doesn´t makes it more true. Please don´t adopt the excuses of the abuser.
  • it is NOT done with advising women to avoid lonely places in mini skirt. It´s symptomatic for misunderstanding violence. I understand the wellmeaning of every parent telling this, but for the professionals: please keep in mind the orignal cause, which is violence, not seduction. There will never be a change of this sick power system which leads to rape unless women still protect it with their respect for the status quo.
 
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Fashion is subjective, after all. My typical modest outfit will be seen as immodest by some, and modest by others.

I’m not in North America or in the UK, we live in a perpetually hot and humid country. Shipping from online stores (eg the places you mentioned) will cost a ton (if they even do overseas shipping) and a 19 year old girl isn’t going to waste her time and money shopping there.

And when you take into account a person’s taste in fashion, it gets even more limiting. It’s much easier if you like flowy dresses with flowers printed all over. Even H&m will have it. If your style is different, obviously your options will decrease. Eg for me, I can either wear jeans and tops, dress as if it’s cold or dress as if I’m going to work (I don’t mind some office fashions, but as a young woman it’s really not normal for me to be dressing like that).

It’s not complaining, it’s just the uncomfortable truth for us. I personally don’t know how to have a diverse and modest wardrobe without wearing ugly (for me) clothing. Even if you ask me to design some of my ideal clothes that are currently not being offered. There’s only so much you can do with modest clothes. Eventually it gets repetitive. So we just suck it up and wear boring clothes and roll our eyes at people that claim it’s very easy.
 
What I sometimes don´t understand is why people doesn´t sew more if they don´t find anything suitable. Where I live we have for example many tailoring workshops where you can learn the basics and also advanced skills. A sewing machine is not that expensive. Just saying 😉
 
alice24 said:
I have not the best image of a catholic view on sex crimes.
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I don’t think it’s necessarily the “Catholic” view. In the US, some of the views expressed were the general view in society up to about the 1970s. The legal system had also accepted some of the views expressed. A woman who was alleging rape could expect to be asked a lot of questions about what was she wearing, in addition to how much did she have to drink, was she being “friendly” with the accused man, etc. We are getting away from that nowadays, but old thinking dies hard.

In addition, parents and society still have to convey to young women that dressing immodestly (and getting drunk, excessively flirting, etc.) is to some degree socially unacceptable and, under Catholicism as well as under many other religions, morally wrong, but they have to give this message in a way totally divorced from blaming the woman for any sexual reaction of a man. It’s a very hard line to walk.
 
I tend to think that modest clothes can be accessorized in many ways. This is the whole idea behind having a wardrobe of “basics” that are very plain, modest pieces, often in just one or two colors, and you dress them up or down with accessories. There have been whole chain stories founded on this concept, and there are even wardrobe consultants who go out and give presentations on how to do this. (Or you can just learn it reading fashion magazines as many of us did.) Of course, some people aren’t going to like that concept either.

I can understand the difficulties of being in a place that doesn’t offer cheap or good shipping.
 
This is true. I won´t say that I myself hold this bad image on catholic views on sex crimes - as I see there are catholic views, not one view, and mainly all of these are personal opinion rather than a teaching of the church.
However, If I would be a more insecure person and have found myself confronted with such - for me - disturbing views in that situation right after the crime, I would probably never came back to church again. I know those ideas are present in many secular areas, too. Even at the police, among teachers, etc. But especially in church, where we found so many daily discussions about the nature of crimes, sins, bad intentions, sometimes with so fine nuances when it comes to seek who is responible for what, I can only wonder by that lack of understanding for sexual violence. It bothers me that there is a constant mixing of the idea of modesty and the idea of preventing crime. For example, I love mantillas. I loved my grandma wearing this because she always did (not out of pride/teaching etc) and I love wearing them sometimes at mass. It was just the way my family did it. But I have to say that I avoid it more and more to talk to women -and men- who admire this, too, because at the end, there is a bad comment on rape, and I walk away and think “another one.”
 
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Sometimes the difficulty is in finding clothing that is modest on your body, which might not necessarily be the same thing that works on someone else. And let me tell you a few years of living without an air conditioner and having to walk everywhere did not leave me fond of the idea of layering!
 
I think what you’re referring to is the capsule wardrobe (was a recent trend). I think that’s what most poor ladies like us do, lol. But there’s only so much you could do tbh. I go out almost everyday and I would repeat my outfit within the second week. My fashion is so repetitive that I basically have same tops in different colors. It’s honestly such a hassle for someone who doesn’t even turn heads in the first place. Siiiigh

Imo even Kate Middleton can look boring after a while. Women don’t like to admit that modesty can be restrictive compared to women who don’t have any guidelines to follow+just wear what they feel happy in.
 
alice24 said:
However, If I would be a more insecure person and have found myself confronted with such - for me - disturbing views in that situation right after the crime, I would probably never came back to church again. I know those ideas are present in many secular areas, too. Even at the police, among teachers, etc. But especially in church, where we found so many daily discussions about the nature of crimes, sins, bad intentions, sometimes with so fine nuances when it comes to seek who is responible for what, I can only wonder by that lack of understanding for sexual violence. It bothers me that there is a constant mixing of the idea of modesty and the idea of preventing crime.
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The main reason for feminine “modesty” historically was to avoid flaunting yourself to men and tempting men. I’ve never in my life heard a lecture about women needing to be modest around their moms or sisters or in their shared female dorm room or in the women-only shower room at the gym. But if there is a man around, even if it’s your dad or brother, you’re to be modest.

There’s also still a school of thought that men, especially young men, can’t control their sex drives once they are triggered. I just had this discussion on some other thread talking about women in the military. Someone contended that even though we can train male soldiers to control their eating, drinking, sleeping, exercise habits, and make them observe strict discipline in all these areas of their life, in his opinion it is impossible to train them to control their sex drives if there is a female soldier in their barracks. If you think like this, then it’s a short step to viewing a woman in an immodest outfit as responsible at least in part for men’s behavior.
 
Lea101 said:
is the capsule wardrobe (was a recent trend)
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It’s nice to know it’s still a “recent trend”. It was also a trend in the 70s, 80s and 90s. It’s never gone out of style because it’s a good way for many women who are not that fashion-knowledgeable and/or don’t have much money to build an acceptable work wardrobe.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
There’s also still a school of thought that men, especially young men, can’t control their sex drives once they are triggered.
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Oh yes. This is one of the most damage causing, but also most shared views on male behaviour I think. I always wonder how catholics, who should be trained in sexual discipline so much, still see men that weak.
 
Minimalist bloggers brought it back. There’s even an online challenge where you basically wear only 8 items of clothing for a couple of months or something like that.
 
I made the comment on the other thread that if soldiers were that undisciplined about their drives, then the enemy could win wars by simply sending a bunch of naked lady dancers into our ranks.
This was dismissed as me being ridiculous.
 
“Food for thought”? That was not quite my reaction.
 
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It’s interesting this topic has come up as this is something I was recently discussing with somebody myself.

Women should dress modestly. All people should, but as Brittany notes; “pants are not inherently immodest, just like skirts are not inherently modest.” Beyond that, a person should keep in mind to a degree their time and place.

At the Mass I regularly attend there is a young woman, probably about 20 years old or so, who dresses extremely modestly at all times. Her folks are “traditional” Catholics, all of which is fine. But in her effort to dress modestly, she’s had to resort to almost dressing in clothes that have a Medieval costume appearance. She’s about the same age as my children, and I live in a very rural setting where Catholics are a minority. A less strikingly unusual set of modest clothing, including decent jeans, would probably be more overall appropriate in this setting, particularly as she otherwise dresses in a Duggar like fashion the rest of the week, including while attending the local college. As one of the few Catholic girls her age she’s probably be highly sought after by the Catholic men the same age around here, but her unusual dress will likely deter that.

I’m not exactly sure what my point is, but I guess there’s “modest” dress and then there’s dress that’s so modest, in some settings, that it crosses over into peculiar, and that can send the wrong and unintended message.
 
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