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GKMotley
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So I understand.
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Ridgerunner
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If a person was ever into that, it’s not hard to see it in today’s “protests”. Back then, politicians tried to control it too, and pre-empt it. Didn’t work really well because the radicals moved right into the party, and those same kinds of people have high places in the Dem party today.
One thing people now don’t realize is that these “movements” are totally amoral. They pretend to be in sympathy with this person or that race or class, but it’s really about nothing but power.
One thing people now don’t realize is that these “movements” are totally amoral. They pretend to be in sympathy with this person or that race or class, but it’s really about nothing but power.
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GKMotley
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How I saw it. And see it.
Generation of Red Diaper Babies yields fruit.
Generation of Red Diaper Babies yields fruit.
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Nepperhan
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And that is important for what reason? It does not mean that those leaders were wrong or what they said was inaccurate. The Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist. So what?
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Nepperhan
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You make a general statement so that it cannot be refuted. Please cite some relevant facts.
I always felt that the civil rights movement was led by preachers because they were the only ones in southern towns who could not have their income halted by the powers that be.
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WingedHussar
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So you endorse communism, good to know.
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Nepperhan
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That’s what the Jesuits call “a leap of faith”.
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Ridgerunner
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That matter about Marxist/Leninists becoming killers of innocent people when they gain power. Amorality, including killing one’s opposition, is inherent to Leninism.
100 million killed in the 20th Century, for instance.
Could be. But there were also black millionaires here and there in the South, even at the time. It is true, though, that black preachers had a ready-made audience that already respected what they had to say along with a certain degree of financial independence.
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Ridgerunner
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As horrible a system as was ever devised. But one of the most amusing, and telling, things I ever read about communism was written by Solzhenitzyn in one of the “Gulag Archipelago” books. He spoke of the Soviet Union as:
“… where capital is dear and labor cheap, unlike in the West where it’s the other way around.”
One of the problems with communism is that they “eat their seed corn”. It’s expensive to maintain the army of thugs that keep them in power, and little is left for capital investment. The only way to make up for that deficit is cheap labor or selling commodities abroad that the populace needs.
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Nepperhan
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Gene McCarthy, the Berrigans and Father Drinan were prominent in the anti-war movement. Leaders, in fact. I would not see them killing innocent people.
The movements are immoral because the commies killed 100 million people? First, you have to connect the anti-war movement to worldwide communism and the links are few. King Leopold of Belgium killed millions Africans, it is said. I would not put that on all Europeans.
It was not just an audience which set black preachers apart. No one had a more overwhelmingly black customer base than morticians, but they could be subject to all sorts of licensing and regulatory pressures.
One of the issues with American conservatism is that for more than 75 years they have labeled movements they didn’t like as communism, pinko, fellow-travelers or ‘communist inspired’. They see the name-calling as some sort of trump card, as if it meant something. This has led Americans to be against many liberation movements around the world and to embrace dictators instead.
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Ridgerunner
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Lenin, I think, would have called them “useful idiots”. On the other hand there were “anti war” leaders like Bill Ayers, JoAnne Chesimard, Cheri Dalton, Charlie Hill who were also killers. Killing was part of their M.O.
The U.S. has allied itself with dictators of both the left and the right. What more odious ally could anyone have had than Josef Stalin? But when it comes to cruelty and killing, the communists have the trophy, without any real rivals in their murderousness. Generally speaking, the U.S. avoids alliances with them. But it still happens. Vietnam is a virtual ally against China, but it’s a brutal communist regime.
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Nepperhan
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You call those leftists idiots? How do you know what Lenin would have said?
I don’t know all the names you cited but neither Bill Ayers nor Joanne Chesimard, who were involved in violent underground groups, ever killed anyone. That’s a fact.Ms. Chesimard is in Cuba with a different name and the US has not sought her extradition. I think ol’ Bill is still knocking around here on the south side. Did you know that his stepson is the San Francisco district attorney? The stepson’s parents killed a guard in an armed robbery and his father is doing life. His mom was paroled about 10 years ago.
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Ridgerunner
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Because he used that very term on people just like them.
Both did.
There is no extradition treaty with Cuba.
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Nepperhan
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Stalin was an ally? After the US sent troops to fight the Bolsheviks in the revolution? They were more thrown together by circumstance. It gets us no further forward to have a contest to see if communist leaders or right-wing dictators killed more people. What needs to stop is the generalization.
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Ridgerunner
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What right wing dictators are you talking about? Name them and give us the number of those they killed.
And Stalin was definitely an ally in WWII, just like he was Hitler’s ally before Barbarossa got into gear.
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Nepperhan
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Think of Battista in Cuba and the rulers of the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, the Congo, Angola and South Africa. Throw in the Shah of Iran, too. Those were all right-wingers supported by the US in the face of leftist revolutions.
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Ridgerunner
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No numbers. No evidence they were all “right wing”. Fail. No showing that the Khomeni coup was “supported by the U.S.”. Bigger fail.
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goout
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Trump is president because of the stupidity of secular atheist leftism.
Trump was the only answer for people who want the stupidity of leftism fixed. Unfortunately he is not going to get it done, but that’s why he is president.
Gender ideology, racial politics, entitlement… etc etc etc…these are why Donald Trump is president. He is the backlash to stupidity (ironically)
Trump was the only answer for people who want the stupidity of leftism fixed. Unfortunately he is not going to get it done, but that’s why he is president.
Gender ideology, racial politics, entitlement… etc etc etc…these are why Donald Trump is president. He is the backlash to stupidity (ironically)
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Nepperhan
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Well, think of the Bay of Pigs, LBJ entering the DR and the mining of the harbor in San Salvador; all by the US. Think of Patrice Lumumba’s assassination in the Congo and Reagan’s view on sanctions against the South African apartheid regime. Think of the Portuguese colonial regime in Angola. No evidence these were right wing and supported by America? You just are unfamiliar with the situations and would like someone else to do your research.
Take a look at them and tell me where I have erred; it is too facile to just say “no evidence”. And I’m not going to provide your requested ‘body count’ – that’s just unsuitable. I said that the shah had a right-wing regime which was supported by the US, not that Khomeini was supported by the US.
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gam197
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This comment just reminds me of New Yorkers. My extended family lives there and I know New York City is a big city but they are so self absorbed sometimes with their own news that they seldom hear of other news outside the city. I recently asked a relative who is a teacher about the family in New Jersey who lost 3 or 4 family members from Covid-19. She said she never heard about it.GKMotley:
I remember it mostly in NYC but there was a BIG parade after the riot.
I was working retail as a teenager in '70 and I remember the manager in my department had to call for a tow truck for his car. He was doing “Lights on for Nixon” and ran down the battery! That amused me to no end. Thurmon Munson was playing for the Yankees then and stated, after 4 were killed at Kent State (where he went to school) that “They should shoot more of 'em.”
How do you and GK Motley read so many books, at least we get a clearer picture.
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