What Black Lives Matter Believe

[Paddy1989]

ALL Races here, Catholics have you read the BLM "what we believe"?

What exactly does that mean?

The Western-prescribed nuclear family is individualistic and isolated. Post-partum depression runs rampant in the West, and stay-at-home parents live in bubbles punctuated by the occasional playgroup gathering. In other cultures, a nuclear family is part of a strong and supportive community, where everybody has each other’s backs.

“Disrupt” is an odd word choice, but it doesn’t mean destroy. And it certainly doesn’t mean that they’re going to tear families apart and send the children to Marxist gulags. Stronger communities are a good thing.

I was curious, so I went to the site to see what it is the group actually states, etc.

And you do understand the difference between BLM the organization and BLM the movement, yet?

Do you support the BLM group? Which by the way is the main mouthpiece of the movement

 

[Paddy1989]

Do you believe in egalitarian police brutality, that is, that some police act in an inappropriately brutal way not only toward Blacks and other minorities but also toward Whites? Or do you believe there is no such thing as police brutality at all, that police officers are just doing their job, and doing it well, given the stressful circumstances?

Police brutality exists everywhere due to Sin being everywhere. Is it a systemic problem in the US? I’ve not seen data yet supporting that though I’m open to it, I haven’t looked into it, does that mean we shouldn’t try and improve the police? Of course not, we can always do better, I think however we need to improve ourselves first. This movement/group has gone beyond protesting against police brutality. They are more interested in pursuing their leftist policies.

 

[Paddy1989]

c4csp:

There needs to be many more so people wake up. There are even priests out there protesting holding BLM signs

Everyone has already said what they think. At this point, it’s just people wanting to vent about how they don’t support it. We all know that there’s a disconnect between the phrase and the organisation, and that those priests are probably not donating to this organisation anyway.

Also, while I’ve seen what they said about the Western nuclear family, I haven’t seen what they meant exactly so it’s just something I’m suspicious of, not to the point of being triggered when a Catholic/conservative says it.

The answer seems clear. Do I think black lives matter? Yes. Do I support Black Lives Matter. If it’s the organisation, I’m suspicious of it. If you’re referring to the sentiment, yes.

I feel like we are all just repeating points now. So I guess I’ll refrain from contributing to the thread. Racism is always a hot and controversial topic on CAF, ironically.

That right there is the problem, racism??? This thread isn’t about what people think about racism. This thread is talking about a far left group that is in contradiction of Catholic teaching and to warn other Catholics about this group.

Imagine if I created a far right group calling it I love kittens and within that group i advocated the inhumane treatment against immigrants and non citizens, then if I was vilified for these far right views I just resorted to calling out such people as animal abusers and bigots. People can protest and should if they want against racism and injustice. However many weeks have passed and in light of their actions it’s obvious to people what BLM are about and it’s not merely against racist injustice. Thats true for both the Movement AND organization

 

[Paddy1989]

Anyway I have no doubt like the me too moment, another far left group trying to bring down what they claimed to be the white patriarchal society BLM will fade away especially as their recent antics have pushed popular opinion against them especially outside the US.

The sooner identity politics fades away the better, all this division and obsession with looking at life through the prism of race and gender. It’s blinding us, hardening our hearts. We just need to detach from the world rather than become susceptible to more of it’s dangerous ideologies that lead us into error

 

[Dario_Western]

This is what happened in Australia in Melbourne after the BLM rally. The number of Covid-19 casualties started to rise again, and now Victorians are forbidden to travel to New South Wales as a result under the threat of fines of $11,000 and possible jail sentences.

 

[Lea101]

Weren’t you one of the posters here that said racism wasn’t an issue? Could be mixing you up with someone, but your posts basically proved my point.

You basically ignored the paragraphs above and just went on and on with the generalisation.

Based on your example, that’s like me going around and telling animal activists who say ‘I love kittens’ are just as bad as the crazy leaders of that organisation.

You can assume all you want, but as someone who’s regularly on SM, where a lot of the movement originated, there’s thousands who have literally no clue about the organisation and they constantly post about how they think the right is overreacting when they use words like Marxist and nuclear family without any clue that those words were used by the founders. They can’t even name a founder!

The sooner identity politics fades away the better, all this division and obsession with looking at life through the prism of race and gender. It’s blinding us, hardening our hearts. We just need to detach from the world rather than become susceptible to more of it’s dangerous ideologies that lead us into error

This type of response always gets thrown in our faces whenever faithful Catholics/Christians talk about sexism/racism etc. Why should the left have the monopoly on these issues? It does us more harm than good.

You should watch the video Fr Mike Schmitz and Fr Josh Johnson did on this topic.

 

[Paddy1989]

The sooner identity politics fades away the better, all this division and obsession with looking at life through the prism of race and gender. It’s blinding us, hardening our hearts. We just need to detach from the world rather than become susceptible to more of it’s dangerous ideologies that lead us into error

This type of response always gets thrown in our faces whenever faithful Catholics/Christians talk about sexism/racism etc. Why should the left have the monopoly on these issues? It does us more harm than good.

You should watch the video Fr Mike Schmitz and Fr Josh Johnson did on this topic.
[/quote]

No I said the BLM narrative was a lie, the fact is BLM have been going for years but haven’t been able to gain traction, then came the horrible incident with George Floyd and they exploited it and called it proof of their racist narrative, tell me why do you believe their assumption that this was a racist attack? Most of the Police officer’s involved weren’t even white. Listen BLM like the ultra feminists, Anarchists, socialists etc all come spawn from the same ideology and their narrative is that the west is a white corrupt patriarchy which is rife with oppression and injustice and therefore must be brought down. The people who bought the BLM narrative that this incident was racist have been duped. You guys wouldn’t even be talking about this if it wasn’t for BLM controlling the narrative.

If animal rights activists were silly enough to protest under the banner of i love kittens which was cover for being a far right group then yes, it would be the same thing. If people haven’t got the sense to know what they are protesting under and who is behind it they need to stop buying into the emotional hype on social media and think rationally about what this group represent and if they identify with it.

I think it is pretty obvious among most Catholics, BLM and their narrative is a lie. The general consensus among Catholics especially after the cultural attacks against Catholic targets is that BLM are not just contrary to the faith but hostile to it. The left aren’t interested in these issues, they use these issues as cover for a larger agenda. Black lives matter you would think should be about one agenda, read the website and you’ll find thats far from the case, the left tend to use this. Hide behind social justice and goodness so just as they tear up the moral fabric of society one can then say don’t worry, it’s all for a good cause

 

[silentwitness]

Well I remember it was written somewhere that “you will know them by their fruits”.

I see burned buildings, toppled statues, bashed citizens, corpses in the streets, irrationally yelling protestors and calls to get rid of police forces which are the only force to stop them short of a citizens army. I see division and good people having to defend themselves against violence and ludicrous attempts to smear them as racist because of their skin colour. I see media as obvious political liars dropping any pretense to the importance of social distancing to support the BLM movement.

I see Democratically controlled police departments being labelled as racist and yet large crowds of protestors believing they can switch this to the Republican president without anyone noticing aka the old racist sins of the Democratic Party.

I see people reacting irrationally to the police force at large, setting up their own autonomous zones and within a week killing black men as part of community policing and not realising how morally bankrupt they obviously are.

I see complete madness.

I also see corporation’s lining up to give them hundreds of millions of dollars and political parties wanting, for political advantages, to continue this madness.

For those looking for Holy Rosary intentions.

Pray to stop anti-civilization from destroying America

 

[xNoOnex]

What about Police brutality against white people where a white unarmed man is more likely to be killed than an unarmed black man?

Based on all the numbers I’ve seen, this isn’t true. While it’s true that more white people are shot and killed by police than black people, proportionally, more black people get shot.

Now the cracks are starting to show with your point. BLM are protesting against RACIST police brutality, NOT police brutality across the board, thats why it’s called BLACK live matters, because it believes there is systemic racism in the police aimed at hunting down and killing blacks. The movement cares little for brutality against white people, it’s objective is to create more division through identity politics

As someone who’s childhood dream of becoming a police officer was shattered because I couldn’t justify wanting to protect people while being part of an organization that often does anything but and who was against police brutality long before BLM was even a thing…

Why should I really care that people are using violence committed against black people as their motivation to protest, especially when police reforms will benefit everyone, regardless of their ethnicity? Most of the reforms being pushed forward are going to help all people.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

No it hasn’t , they were never ‘apart’ before BLM. I admit the marches provided an excuse to march together, just like the marches targeting the fictitious “war on women”.

Black Lives Matter was generally unpopular just a few months ago. Now it is enjoying more popular support. That is bringing people together.

Well I remember it was written somewhere that “you will know them by their fruits”.

I see burned buildings, toppled statues, bashed citizens, corpses in the streets,

These are not the fruits of the vast majority of Black Lives Matter peaceful protesters. These are the fruits of an opportunistic minority of angry violent people.

 

[silentwitness]

These are not the fruits of the vast majority of Black Lives Matter peaceful protesters. These are the fruits of an opportunistic minority of angry violent people.

I am sorry Leaf they are the fruits of the BLM movement.

The fruits are not social harmony or a more cohesive society or better justice systems.

That is nowhere to be seen.

Have a good look Leaf and then start multiplying. There are the fruits.

(warning - bad language)

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I am sorry Leaf they are the fruits of the BLM movement.

The fruits are not social harmony or a more cohesive society or better justice systems.

That is nowhere to be seen.

Have a good look Leaf and then start multiplying. There are the fruits.

You are cherry-picking. The vast majority - millions that marched peacefully, were not like that. As for bringing about a better justice system, that too appears to be happening. Legislative bodies from the Federal Government to State to County to City jurisdictions are seriously considering reforms. Does it bug you that much to witness positive change on the racial front?

 

[silentwitness]

You are cherry-picking. The vast majority - millions that marched peacefully, were not like that. As for bringing about a better justice system, that too appears to be happening. Legislative bodies from the Federal Government to State to County to City jurisdictions are seriously considering reforms. Does it bug you that much to witness positive change on the racial front?

Leaf politicians talking past each other (as usual) are not fruits. People walking down streets are not fruits.

Does it bug you that when you put these empty gestures against real terrible death and destruction and the obvious step back for peaceful race relations it is clear where the fruits lie?

(Again possible warning for bad language).

 

[LeafByNiggle]

when you put these empty gestures against real terrible death and destruction and the obvious step back for peaceful race relations it is clear where the fruits lie?

That’s a false dichotomy. The protests did not spawn the looters. Systemic injustice did that. It happened in 1967 and it happened in 2020. It also happened in 1859 (Harper’s Ferry). It is unfortunate, but that’s the fruits of injustice.

 

[silentwitness]

That’s a false dichotomy. The protests did not spawn the looters. Systemic injustice did that. It happened in 1967 and it happened in 2020. It also happened in 1859 (Harper’s Ferry). It is unfortunate, but that’s the fruits of injustice.

Don’t retreat to the past Leaf. So much death and destruction came from this movement.

You may not want it to happen and millions may not want it to happen. That doesn’t mean that it didn’t and these are the real hard fruits.

Not wanting it to be so doesn’t mean that it isn’t.

You talk of blaming it on systematic injustice. No Leaf it was people willing to commit violence on other people and others talking up things like ‘systematic racism’ to give them cover.

Those people who gave them cover have to own it. This is not 1967 Leaf. You cannot retreat to the past and make believe this is a good thing. This is a terrible evil thing.

People are following a Marxist organisation whose clear and stated aim is to take down the current society. If you then have the end resulting fruits of attacking people and society, this should not come as a surprise to anyone.

Perhaps the lesson is to stop blindly following extreme Left wing movements and then claim innocence when they take you to evil places where you didn’t plan on going.

 

[Theo520]

These are not the fruits of the vast majority of Black Lives Matter peaceful protesters. These are the fruits of an opportunistic minority of angry violent people.

Ahem, since they didn’t stop the pillaging and looting,
they do receive some credit for the ‘fruit’.

And it repeated itself day after day, in city after city.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Don’t retreat to the past Leaf. So much death and destruction came from this movement.

Compared to the size of the movement, very little death came from it - certainly not as much death as the death they were protesting. And it didn’t come from the peaceful protesters. It came from extreme opportunists.

You may not want it to happen and millions may not want it to happen. That doesn’t mean that it didn’t and these are the real hard fruits.

Fruits of the death of George Floyd, Bryonna Taylor, and others.

Those people who gave them cover have to own it. This is not 1967 Leaf. You cannot retreat to the past and make believe this is a good thing.

The violence in 1967 was not a good thing, and it was far worse. Large parts of the city of Detroit were burned. I know. I was working for a TV news crew in Detroit at the time. It was much worse. But like today, that violence was spawned by injustice. And although I was not there, I did read about the 1859 Harper’s Ferry incident in school. You studied too, didn’t you? It was violence and death that was inexcusable. Yet it was the expected fruit of the injustice of American slavery that finally erupted the next year in the Civil War. I am not retreating to the past. I am trying to learn from it. But if you want a more recent example, what do you say about Charlottesville where a “peaceful” protest against the removal of Confederate monuments was called. But under cover of those peaceful protests, someone got violent and drove through a crowd, killing a woman. According to your analysis, all the peaceful right-wing protesters are equally responsible for the violence committed by a few. Is that your position? Or do you take Trump’s position that there were “good people on both sides”?

Ahem, since they didn’t stop the pillaging and looting,
they do receive some credit for the ‘fruit’.

The pillaging and looting were taking place next to but not exactly with the peaceful protesters. It is not their job to suddenly take on the responsibility of the police. Nevertheless some of the protesters did exactly that and stopped some of the troublemakers who brazenly tried to smash store windows right under the noses of the peaceful protesters. So in a a small way, at least some of the violence was stopped by the protesters themselves, although they could not possibly do the whole job that even the police could not do.

 

[silentwitness]

According to your analysis, all the peaceful right-wing protesters are equally responsible for the violence committed by a few. Is that your position?

If they march under a common banner and by the hundreds for weeks they bash, kill antagonise and terrorise innocent people i have no trouble disassociating myself with that movement. I certainly wouldn’t look the other way and believe i shouldn’t call it out because my cause was the greater social justice.

In the excerpt below you say violence is inexcusable but it sounds awfully close to excusing it in order to fight injustice, as you see it.

What identity politics does is enculturate a mindset of victimhood which identifies a villain class that deserves violence.

Compared to the size of the movement, very little death came from it - certainly not as much death as the death they were protesting. And it didn’t come from the peaceful protesters. It came from extreme opportunists…
But like today, that violence was spawned by injustice. … It was violence and death that was inexcusable. Yet it was the expected fruit of the injustice of American slavery that finally erupted the next year in the Civil War. I am not retreating to the past. I am trying to learn from it

Identity politics looks to the past, draws lines around identity groups and sees injustice by one against the other and then projects that back to the present and then excuses present violence in the name of past injustice.

French Revolution, Bolsheviks, National Socialists etc. Condoning violence in the name of a supposed victim class is when identity politics becomes evil and it often causes more violence then it claims to be combatting. The Devil often follows quickly after.

That is the lesson of history.

At the moment the violence is coming from the Left, largely on people of the Left in Leftist areas. If they start attacking other people they believe are opposed to them then those people have the absolute right to defend themselves no matter what historical identity politics is in the heads of the attackers. That is when it becomes very dangerous. How you rationalise the initial violence means absolutely nothing when that tipping point is reached.

There are very few people dying in police custody.

In cities mainly run by Democrats, people of all races unfortunately suffer police fatalities and yet it is the Democratic party who tries to turn only one set of deaths into some continuation of slavery injustice and split camps into racial categories which polarises society along racial lines.

That is a thoroughly evil idea and the fruits are always the same.

The present painful cries of family members of murdered victims outweighs any idea that violence is justified because of an identity politics belief system of fighting historical injustice. So much evil is done in the name of fighting supposed historical injustice.

That is the problem inherent in Left wing ideology.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

If they march under a common banner and by the hundreds for weeks they bash, kill antagonise and terrorise innocent people i have no trouble disassociating myself with that movement.

And in fact the peaceful protesters do disassociate themselves from the violent troublemakers.

In the excerpt below you say violence is inexcusable but it sounds awfully close to excusing it in order to fight injustice, as you see it.

There is no contradiction in saying that a certain outcome is both inexcusable and expected.

…identity politics…mindset of victimhood…villain class…

Retreating to meaningless buzz-words, eh?

Identity politics looks to the past, draws lines around identity groups

“Drawing lines around groups” is exactly what red-lining did. They actually drew red lines on maps of a city! And the legacy of that unjust practice, preventing wealth building through home owership, is still with the black community today.

 

[Theo520]

No you are just making poor excuses.

Your scenario is good to explain how it might have happened the first time (once), but not day after day in city after city. The BLM protesters are complicit in the rioting and looting