What can be done to stop gun violence

[njlisa]

I made this point earlier

The Supreme Court’s 2008 landmark ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller enshrined individual gun ownership as a constitutional right.

Primary Holding
Private citizens have the right under the Second Amendment to possess an ordinary type of weapon and use it for lawful, historically established situations such as self-defense in a home, even when there is no relationship to a local militia.

Short of a constitutional amendment, gun ownership is a fundamental right in the U.S.

Mass shootings are a fraction of murders in the U.S. Tactical/assault weapons are a drop in the bucket. Handguns are the overwhelming weapon of choice. In 2016, handguns were used in 7,105 of 11,004 total gun homicides. The total number of homicides that year was 15,070.

However, the U.S. homicide rate has decreased dramatically over the years.

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We need to look at the social factors causing gun homicides. And we need to solve them at the community and family level. Strong moral values don’t come from the federal level.

 

[RCIAGraduate]

Strong moral values don’t come from the federal level.

Are you sure about that, maybe the federal government can support programs that provide hope or more practically solutions for people?

 

[melonhead]

At the risk of sounding excessively snarky, would it make you feel better if they abolished concealed carry laws and let anyone carry whenever?

Kidding aside, I feel much better around someone who took the time to legally purchase a firearm, then went to the courthouse, announced their intention to carry said firearm for protection, seek permission from the government, prove some degree of competence with the firearm, learn a bit about the law regarding self defense than I would around someone who grabbed him a gun somewhere and is carrying it around illegally. But that’s me.

 

[njlisa]

Are you sure about that, maybe the federal government can support programs that provide hope or more practically solutions for people?

@RCIAGraduate

I’m not sure. But here’s my thought. Lots of money has been thrown at public housing, education, and other programs.

Money won’t keep kids out of gangs and drugs. I’m all about local solutions. People need to empower themselves and take moral leadership. My high school was full of trashy kids. I was raised to succeed in school. My parents and church kept me out of trouble. I’m not a child of privilege either.

 

[melonhead]

Then people would simply revert to sticks, knives, trucks, etc. We’ve passed successively restrictive gun laws here, yet we’ve watched mass shootings increase. Perhaps the problem is something within culture that makes people want to kill.

 

[upant]

We have to make access to automatics

Do you? it is already highly regulated

Sport hunting? What true sportsman would hunt with that kind of weapon?

It just shows you really don’t understand the weapon you want to ban.

The suggestion is that assault-type weapons be banned.

There really is no category of gun called assault-type weapon, so all weapons could be classified this and banned.

Depending on what lawmaker you listen to many handguns would be included in a final bill

Fear of armed criminals intent on doing mischief to you or your loved ones in places where statistically the odds are incredibly low - now you’re verging on phobia.

No home invasions near you? No criminal activity? Tell that to the Aussie that just lost his life in a home invasion in a safe county in the us

Don’t know about the US, but I believe here in Australia the injuries and deaths per car on the road are going down.

how is Melbourne’s gun rate doing?

Tell that to the young girl using it to fend off the rapist

Oh Americans are excellent at defending the 2nd amendment - not so good at defending THE fundamental human right without which none of the others matter, which is the right to life itself.

You are killing your unborn especially in sickening numbers. None of your gun-toting John Wayne wannabeeism is effective in the slightest in defending those unborn lives, which form the vast bulk of all murders in the US

Yes, and many on this board will vote for politicians who will ease access to abortion yet claim we need gun control

And - if brandishing weapons or firing a warning shot works in 90+ % of cases, then we may as well be handing out realistic-looking and sounding replicas to 90% of gun owners. Leave the actual guns to the 10% who have the best training and marksmanship.

Brandishing and firing warning shots are illegal in some states.

 

[upant]

The point of concealed carry is for you not to know. someone may still be carrying in a gun-free-zone, how does anyone know without a search or metal detector?

a gun-free-zone does not make you any safer than anywhere else.
it may actually make you an easier target. it is a false sense of security.

Are you sure about that, maybe the federal government can support programs that provide hope or more practically solutions for people

the feds should get out of the game and let the states handle the programs
the best thing the state government can do is to get people back to work

Government Is Not a Cure for All Societal Problems | National Review

 

[melonhead]

Why would that be a good thing? As we’ve seen during other bans of other items, it simply creates a black market. A ban has no effect on the bad guy, but removes a means of self protection from the law abiding.

 

[DENNYINMI]

A good start would be to take a good look at what we do with cars/machinery that have the potential to cause deaths, baby articles, the same. Tainted lettuce/food products, and deadly medication that can lead to dependence and epidemics, proving it is never too late to do something with the product while the problem exists.

And then, do that.

 

[melonhead]

So what?

A ban has no effect on the bad guy

That’s true of pretty much any ban of anything (and in cases where it fails to have “no” effect, it will then most probably have “little” effect). Supporters of the legalisation of recreational hemp smoking use that argument to push their nonsense. As a matter of fact, those who wish to remove restrictions from anything that actually does have restrictions on it, will often resort to that argument.

Even many supporters of abortion use (or have used in the past) a version of that argument. That was the “substance” behind the late 20th century “safe, legal, and rare” mantra and thought process that those illdoers peddled throughout the land.
[/quote]

You really don’t see the downside to creating an unregulated, illicit market for an inanimate object?

As far as legalizing Mary Jane, I’d rather have it legalized and regulated for quality so you know what you’re buying, than unregulated so you may be buying something laced with all sorts of nasty stuff.

Comparing gun regulation to abortion is just dishonest. One is an object. The other is a process utilizing objects that results in a death. If we’re going that route, then we should regulate the sale of forceps, as certain types can be used to kill via abortions, licit or otherwise.

 

[upant]

there is a world of difference

abortion is murder. people are against the gun because it is used to commit murder but they vote for politicians who make/keep abortion procedures legal which is used to commit murder.

how is it unsettling if no one knows?

yes, but who knows?

 

[Tbrightson]

Assault weapons make it easier for people to kill a maximum number of people over a short period of time.

No. Semi-automatic weapons make it easier to fire off rounds quickly and thus hit more targets. Ban those scarwy “assualt” weapons, then any ordinary walnut grained semi-auto can do the same damage.

 

[upant]

you think the stopping power of a knife and a gun is the same?

 

[upant]

which makes it the perfect self defense weapon for those who know how to use it. I taught kids in scouts how to properly and safely use guns early in their lives. if they came upon a gun they knew what to do with it and how to properly handle it.

a gun is a tool, the problem is that we stopped training kids how to safely use this tool and instead glamorized it as a object of power. now we get upset that they abuse it

 

[godisgood77]

Treat gun ownership like a drivers license…perfectly reasonable.

Private sale of guns is like the wild west… need to reign in. Need to write sensible laws and enforce them.

To restate an old cliche, guns don’t kill people, people kill people. We don’t have a gun problem, we have a problem with our society.

I’m not sure how you can deny that there is a correlation between the immense number of guns in the US, ease of access to those guns and the amount of gun violence.

 

[Nihilo]

Treat gun ownership like a drivers license…perfectly reasonable.

You’re begging the question that gun control is moral. Some of us require you to demonstrate that it’s moral, and have not seen such demonstration and in contrast have seen the opposite demonstrated, in reality and in argument.

Private sale of guns is like the wild west…

How?

need to reign in. Need to write sensible laws and enforce them.

Again “sensible” begs the question that gun control is moral.

Horton:

To restate an old cliche, guns don’t kill people, people kill people. We don’t have a gun problem, we have a problem with our society.

I’m not sure how you can deny that there is a correlation between the immense number of guns in the US, ease of access to those guns and the amount of gun violence.

There’s a statistical case to be made for suicides and probably accidents, but the global data indicates no correlation between the number of guns in civilian hands and murders. iow, whether a country has very low civilian gun ownership (most countries), “medium” gun ownership (some countries), or over 1 gun per resident (the US alone—over twice as many civilian owned guns as our closest rival in this metric), the murder rate is independent of the number of guns. The US is about 100th in the world for highest murder rate, even though we have far and away the most guns per person in the whole world.

 

[Horton]

I’m not sure how you can deny that there is a correlation between the immense number of guns in the US, ease of access to those guns and the amount of gun violence.

Well it is obvious, MOST legal gun owners never fire that gun at another human being. You are making a big assumption that ALL gun owners have a weapon to use against another person. That assumption is false.

 

[godisgood77]

You’re begging the question that gun control is moral. Some of us require you to demonstrate that it’s moral, and have not seen such demonstration and in contrast have seen the opposite demonstrated, in reality and in argument.

No, I"m not making any statement about the morality of gun control - explicitly or implicitly.

I’m simply stating my opinion that getting a gun should be only as easy as getting a drivers license; not easier.

How?

MIllions of guns change hands in the private marketplace with no background checks = Wild West.

Again “sensible” begs the question that gun control is moral.

No it doesn’t… Sensible means chosen in accordance with wisdom or prudence; likely to be of benefit. Not a statement about morality one way or the other

There’s a statistical case to be made for suicides and probably accidents, but the global data indicates no correlation between the number of guns in civilian hands and murders. iow, whether a country has very low civilian gun ownership (most countries), “medium” gun ownership (some countries), or over 1 gun per resident (the US alone—over twice as many civilian owned guns as our closest rival in this metric), the murder rate is independent of the number of guns. The US is about 100th in the world for highest murder rate, even though we have far and away the most guns per person in the whole world.

Here are some facts to consider…

1. America has six times as many firearm homicides as Canada, and nearly 16 times as many as Germany… with 29.7 firearm homicides per 1 million people … source: undoc, Small Arms Survey, via the Guardian
2. America has more guns than people - Source: Small Arms Survey
3. States with more guns have more gun deaths - Source: Injury Prevention(Gun Ownership); CDC (Deaths)
4. It not just the US, Developed countries with more guns also have more gun deaths - source: Gunpolicy.org
5. America is an outlier when it comes to gun deaths, but not overall crime … Source: Jeffrey Swanson. International Crime Victims Sruvey, Gallup Europe - it would be one thing if the US happened to have more crime than other nations, but the existing data shows that not to be the case. America is only an outlier when it comes to homicides and, specifically, gun violence
6. States with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun-related deaths -source: Zara Matheson/Martin Prosperity Institute

 

[Horton]

If a person has a gun in their home as protection, they truly hope to never have to use it. I live pretty far out in the country in a fairly secluded home. If someone were to break into my home, expecting the Sheriff’s Department to come and handle the situation is ridiculous. Even if I was able to make a call help is 15-20 minutes away. So it is up me or someone in my household to protect us. That gun was not bought with the thought, “yay I get to shoot someone”, it was more like “I hope I never have to use this, but if it is to protect my family, I’m glad I have it”.

Maybe where you live the police can respond to your home and protect your family within minutes of calling, or you think the bad guy will be reasonable and not harm you because you ask nice.

For me, I’m not waiting to find out. The gun safe is within steps of my bed and will open with my fingerprint. The bad guy gets one verbal warning to leave the house, if not I shoot. I never want to do that, taking a human life would be horrible, but I would rather do that than see any of my family members harmed because I wasn’t willing to step up.

You say this as though there is something wrong with owning guns for fun. Most gun owners, I would guess 98% of them, are smart enough around guns of any type to know they are not to be “played with”. My late husband’s father owned several hundred guns. Many of those guns had never been fired and never would be. Some of them could not be fired. Some were in the original box they came in from the factory. His basement was filled with guns, most hanging on racks on the walls. He collected guns for fun, they were his toys.

My father has an expensive collection of guns although it is 7-8 guns rather than hundreds. One gun was made specifically for my father by a master gun smith. It has never been fired.

Everyone I know who owns guns is a safe and responsible owner. If really learned about the majority of gun owners in the country you would find the same thing.

 

[Horton]

You cannot be serious with this. A security alarm? Did I not say it would take the Sheriff’s Department 15-20 minutes to respond. We could all be dead by then. A bat? Pepper spray? To use a bat one has to get pretty close, too close. A swing and a miss would mean the bad guy now has the bat. Pepper spray - again one has to get close, too close.
The love for who? The person who breaks into my house or the love for my family?

First, my door would never be open. Second, family members who come to my home know to announce themselves especially if it is late at night or call first. Everyone else would ring the doorbell. If it wasn’t one of those it would be a pretty good assumption it was someone intending no good.

And this says a lot about you.