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vern_humphrey
Guest
I don’t want to offend anyone here, but what I see is OCD. “It HAS to be the guns! It can’t be anything else!”
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vern_humphrey
Guest
I have a suggestion – TV portrayed gang-bangers as holding their guns sideways to shoot, and real gang-bangers adopted that approach.
How about in all TV programs we show the gang-bangers as looking down the little hole and PUSHING on the trigger?
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Nihilo
Guest
This already happened! Machine guns /selective fire small arms have been basically banned since 1934.
If we ban assault weapons then there will be massacres with lever action rifles and then we’ll ban lever action rifles and then massacres will happen with revolvers and then we’ll ban revolvers and then massacres will happen with airplanes oh wait.
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IWantGod
Guest
I would like to think that encouraging a genuine sense of self-esteem and value in young people, and teaching them how to actualise their potential and attain a reasonable degree of happiness in life, would make it very unlikely that they would be involved in gun crime. But whose got the time and the money and the care to invest in such a venture? Does society even know how?
Society just seems to be going through the motions and the individual ends up where they end up.
It is both short sighted and counterproductive to treat a symptom and not the underlying disease.
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Peeps
Guest
Do you disagree that people who want a gun will be able to acquire one even if guns are banned?
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IWantGod
Guest
I dare say that somebody would figure out how to create one, but gun control is a reasonable response to gun crime nonetheless; it’s just not the full solution.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Yes, treat the underlying disease too!LeafByNiggle:
It is both short sighted and counterproductive to treat a symptom and not the underlying disease.
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Peeps
Guest
Do you live in a city, not necessarily a metropolitan city like Chicago or LA, but a small city?
Gangs. They are in the city, and they have guns. They get them from the mobs that control them. And private citizens, anyone, can find out where to get a gun. There are neighborhoods in our city that are known gang territory, and there are businesses that can connect you with a gang member who can take your request to the right place (or more accurately, the WRONG place) and get you a gun.
Of course, this is dangerous stuff, and you could get yourself in very bad trouble.
Do you honestly not know this? I envy you if you have never known this. You are in a much more peaceful place than my family members.
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phil19034
Guest
I don’t own a gun because I don’t have what it takes to shoot a person.
However, I’m a defender of the 2nd amendment because I believe in the right of good people to protect their family.
I also believe in the right of the people to overthrow a tyrannical govt. I don’t want guns pulled away because if the communists ever take control, I would pray the people with the AK47s and AR15s would start a rebellion to over through the communists and restore our way of life. This is exactly why several of the Founding Fathers believed that people should be allowed to own guns similar to what the military uses.
ANYWAY - to your point about abortion. This is NOT a valid comparison. Owning a weapon (gun, sword, crossbow, etc) to protect yourself and family is not immortal. And using your weapon to kill someone in self defense or in the defense of another is not immoral either.
But abortion is ALWAYS immoral. There is never a legit reason to abort a child. But there are plenty of moral and morally neutral reasons to own & use weapons.
BTW - we already have laws about murder. It’s is illegal & immoral. And yes, while stricter gun control might prevent some shootings, most murders are performed by criminals (who again, often get guns on the black market anyway) and/or they are murders of passion. Murders of passion happen in all kinds, guns, kitchen knives, baseball bats, arson, etc.
BTW - in regards to making bombs… there is a Mar 21, 2018 Wall Street Journal article called “Why Homemade Bombs Are Easy to Make and Hard to Trace.” One just needs to Google “how to make a bomb” and they can find instructions online. One doesn’t even need to create a bomb with a detonator. BBC.com has a article from Mar 17, 2018 called “Why is to so easy to buy bomb ingredients.”
Point is - if you take guns away from LAW ABIDING citizens, it might make a short terms difference, but in the long run crime will increase because criminals will have less fear of home owners with guns, and since most gangs & professional criminals use guns from the black market - that’s not going to change. And mass murders (which are always premeditated) will simply use different means.
OH and the reason why “driving into a crowd” is a legit way to commit mass murder is because mass murderers often don’t really care if they are caught. Look how many commit suicide, are easily shot by police, or easily arrested. Mass murders typically don’t care if they don’t get away - they are prepared to suffer the consequences.
So how about we focus on LONG TERM solutions and not short term ones that will have long term negative effects?
God bless
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Maxirad
Guest
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phil19034
Guest
Yes, it is hate. However, hate is too easy of an answer and it is not the root. What is the root of the hate?
We can take away all of the guns, but it won’t solve the hate problem. We need to get to the root of why people want to kill each other and heal that.
Otherwise, we are not going to make significant progress.
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John10
Guest
Gun laws are not the only way to solve the gun violence issue, but without them no solution will do much.
Also that crime prevention did not include any “accidental” shootings which are happening all over the place in the USA everyday, not to mention those who commit suicide with guns.
The really sad part is when children are involved. Open to see other solutions, but gun legislation must be put in place in order to have any real chance to make a change. Background check on ALL gun sales everywhere, with no exception is a must.
Also that crime prevention did not include any “accidental” shootings which are happening all over the place in the USA everyday, not to mention those who commit suicide with guns.
The really sad part is when children are involved. Open to see other solutions, but gun legislation must be put in place in order to have any real chance to make a change. Background check on ALL gun sales everywhere, with no exception is a must.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
We HAVE gun laws – and the places with the most homicides have the strictest gun laws. I don’t see how stricter laws there would have any effect.
Firearms accidents are so infrequent that if it were not for the politics they would not rate their own category, but simply be lumped under "other.’ And the rate is declining.
All mental health professionals agree suicide is primarily caused by severe depression. Japan, which has total gun control, has a higher suicide rate than the US.
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phil19034
Guest
I don’t own guns because I don’t have what it takes to kill a human (or animal for that matter).
However, my brother (who is a former member of the Air Force and currently works for the national guard) owns several guns and an AR-15. When I used to be against guns, I asked him “why?”. His answer (and his wife’s - who also used to be in the military): “1st so we can protect our family from an intruder when in any room in our house and we have the AR-15 in case the communists ever take over and we need to rebel.”
Personally, I don’t want AR-15s taken away from our retired military, police officers, etc who would be willing to fight to protect us if our govt falls.
Also, they said an AR-15 would be important to protect the family if the electric grid is ever attacked by terrorists and we lose our electricity for an extended time and people wind up looting, etc.
Good gun owners hope & pray for peace, but prepare for the worst.
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John10
Guest
Correct, however easy access to guns makes suicide much more effective. Obviously there is a need to have both good mental health support and “common sense” gun legislation, like universal background checks.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
The Japanese seem to do very well without guns.
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John10
Guest
12) Guns allow people to kill themselves much more easily
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Perhaps the reason access to guns so strongly contributes to suicides is that guns are much deadlier than alternatives like cutting and poison.
If they had laws as weak as the USA, their suicide rate would be worse not better.
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Nihilo
Guest
This is correct. They are basically Kamikazes. It took nuclear bombs to stop the last big batch of Kamikazes that scourged the earth.
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Brian_K
Guest
Well, we don’t have to copy them exactly. But since we’ve tried stricter gun laws and seen that they actually increase gun crime, it seems to me that integrating firearms into the culture more thoroughly and widely would be a better solution.
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