What can be done to stop gun violence

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Guns are instruments that can be used for evil just like forceps and scalpels are instruments that can be used for evil. If you think the instrument is the problem then why are you not advocating for banning forceps, scalpels or any other instrument used in a procedure which causes far more deaths.
 
I disagree. And I think that many other people with various mental and emotional illnesses who have never been inclined towards violence or self-destruction would say the same. With treatment, they are fit to own a gun.
I’m a registered firearm owner in Australia, and we do have a “self-declaration” component in our firearms licensing scheme where an applicant must declare that he/she has not undergone treatment for mental health problems in the last 5 years. But it’s simply a “self-declaration”: the firearms registry does not ask for nor seek supporting evidence.

I suspect this is the case because it’s somewhat problematic: a significant minority of people undergo depression at some point or another, and people might have relapses further down the line. Rates of depression are even higher for rural Australians (the largest demographic of firearm owners): a tendency to forego preventative mental self-care, dwindling employment in country towns, and the frequency of Australian droughts and bushfires, etc.

Some have suggested (and I agree with this) that strict mental health protocols on firearms would have the detrimental effect of discouraging a large proportion of Australian firearms owners from seeking mental health assistance in the first place. Why do if it risks the surrendering of your licence and firearms for >5 years (with no compensation)? For many men in the outback, firearms are part of the community fabric. Even the 90 year old in a wheelchair can still attend the shooting range with his mates if he can’t play rugby any longer.

With that being said, I think background checks can be helpful. But it needs to be a considered and thoughtful policy that resists knee-jerk decisions.
 
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Nihilo:
…because all gun control is patently Unconstitutional. We are breaking the law. We need to stop breaking the law.
That’s not what the courts have held. And in our system they are the final arbiters of what is breaking the law.
And the S. Ct. in their authoritative and authorized holdings, have been wrong before. The separation of powers and supremacy of the S. Ct.'s rulings do not preserve the justices from making human errors. And I do believe that if we the people disagree with any S. Ct. ruling, that is one reason for amending the Constitution, to impose our will upon the justices, because we are their boss, they are not our rulers. Their job should be uninteresting and not have the same impact as our lawmakers do upon our daily lives, imo.
…then we should face the reality that we are stuck with it, and it says and I quote “shall not be infringed,” and there’s no possibility that we’re obeying that law right now in any state county or municipality.
You only quoted half sentence, and not the half whose interpretation is in question.
The whole sentence’s interpretation is in question, every bit of it.
The part you omitted includes “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms”. Which people? Which Arms? Keep where? Bear where? There is a lot of room for interpretation.
You’re right, every bit of that sentence is contested, even within the legal discipline, which means that even the opinions of lawyers and judges have no more weight than mine or your interpretation. That being said, here’s my own nutshell answers for you:

“The people” in the Second Amendment are the same “the people” who are in the Preamble. The S. Ct. has since further ruled that “the people” in the Preamble are even those Nonamericans who happen to be in the US (even illegal aliens).

“Arms” are weapons of war, especially whatever British troops can and do carry.

“Keep where? Bear where?” Keep in our homes, and bear in our homes and on public property.
Yes we do. I’m one of them.
The question of whether you are “well-regulated” is highly speculative.
Not if well regulated means good with a good gun, and always lawfully carrying one.
 
Militias today are vigilantes.
An artifact of our perverted gun control laws that have perverted the Second Amendment’s protection of the right to bear arms, is that the well regulated militia is forced to be invisible. When we do read headlines about groups that identify openly as “militias,” it’s always bad press, and serves to further fuel further gun control.

We are forced to be invisible because we are forced to, if we take it upon ourselves to lawfully exercise our right to bear arms and therefore become more active in the militia, conceal our weapons of war that we carry on our streets.

We don’t even know who else is a minuteman or woman, because of how stringent concealed carry laws are, we are forced to hide our weapons of war, and pretend like we’re just like the rest of you.
They have no legal authority.
We’re just innocent ppl, law abiding citizens. Nothing fancy.
 
The Supreme Court rules whether something is constitutional or not.
We are a country of laws.
Back when the constitution was written, our army was made up of continentals (trained soldiers) and militia (volunteers who had little formal training).
Our military today (army, navy, air force, marines, and coast guard) has no need of militia for help. Our military protects us from foreign invaders.
Bearing arms for personal protection and for hunting is good.
But there is no need for individuals to own weapons designed for war.
 
With that being said, I think background checks can be helpful. But it needs to be a considered and thoughtful policy that resists knee-jerk decisions.
We have the infrastructure for a workable system. As we no longer treat the mentally ill in my state as actually patients, but rather as criminals, the correctional institutions have become the default mental hospitals. As a result, we have a database of all those who have come in contact with the state mental health system, which is pretty much all the seriously mentally ill. Obviously this would only be a start. There would need to be exceptions which could be easily arranged, as the contact doctor is listed, and there would need to be others added, though that too would have holes. This would have prevented the El Paso shooter from obtaining a gun if private sellers were required by law to have this database checked.

There is a problem I see re-occurring here, this lumbering gap of logic that will not be silenced, from the anti-gun control folks. It is one of those statements that is so obviously flawed it has to be repeated over and over to convince themselves. That is*, “This won’t stop gun violence.”* Duh. Can we get over that one. I hope no one is naive enough to buy that argument. Of course nothing will stop gun violence, but it is urgent that we do all we can to limit it gun violence. We will never stop gun violence, abortion, war, or sin. Yet it is important for use to value life enough to slow it down, to curb it, in any way possible.
 
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LeafByNiggle:
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Nihilo:
…because all gun control is patently Unconstitutional. We are breaking the law. We need to stop breaking the law.
That’s not what the courts have held. And in our system they are the final arbiters of what is breaking the law.
And the S. Ct. in their authoritative and authorized holdings, have been wrong before. The separation of powers and supremacy of the S. Ct.'s rulings do not preserve the justices from making human errors. And I do believe that if we the people disagree with any S. Ct. ruling, that is one reason for amending the Constitution, to impose our will upon the justices, because we are their boss, they are not our rulers.
They know that full well, and if the Constitution is amended they will rule based on the amended version. Every first year law student knows that. I’m sure the Supreme Court justices know that too.

But as for them being “wrong”, that would be judging them from a higher authority than the US constitution. And under that higher authority, I think the 2nd amendment was itself a mistake. So where do you want to argue from? The law? Or higher authority, like Catholic doctrine? I will oblige you either way.
The part you omitted includes “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms”. Which people? Which Arms? Keep where? Bear where? There is a lot of room for interpretation.
You’re right, every bit of that sentence is contested, even within the legal discipline, which means that even the opinions of lawyers and judges have no more weight than mine or your interpretation.
No more weight where? In the eyes of God? In US law? Again, what is your chosen perspective?
That being said, here’s my own nutshell answers for you:

“The people” in the Second Amendment are the same “the people” who are in the Preamble.
“The people” in the preamble referred to the people at the time, because it says “in order to form”, and “do ordain and establish”. Nobody today is forming or ordaining or establishing anything. That was completed when the Constitution was ratified. So you are not helping your cause, only confusing it.
The S. Ct. has since further ruled that “the people” in the Preamble are even those Nonamericans who happen to be in the US (even illegal aliens).
Given your low opinion of the SC, I don’t know if you are on board with this ruling or not. I suspect not.
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LeafByNiggle:
The question of whether you are “well-regulated” is highly speculative.
Not if well regulated means good with a good gun, and always lawfully carrying one.
That is a weird definition of “well-regulated” that James Madison and his friends would not have recognized.
 
“If you don’t mind, I just want to share with you that we’ve learned over the years, as we’ve worked with millions and millions of young people. And it comes from something you said last week in your speech, and it was that we must create a culture of connectedness. We must create a culture in which our classmates become our friends. That’s something we’ve learned how to do over the years. We have over 28 different programs, and we see children connect with one another. Every single one of these school shootings has been from young men, who are disconnected. And we talk a lot about the mental health issues, but it actually goes deeper than that. There’s a lot of mentally ill children that are kind and compassionate. And so, we work with those children every single day of the school year, but there’s always the one with the propensity to violence. So, one of the things we have learned, and we train children and we train teachers, the focus must not be on just unity or diversity. Because if you focus too much on diversity, you create division. If you focus too much on unity, you’ll create compromise. But if you focus on relatedness, and how we can relate with one another, then you can celebrate the diversity, and you can see the unity take place. I’ll for diversity. I’m all for unity. *But if you focus on relatedness, and how we can relate with one another, then you can celebrate the diversity, and you can see the unity take place. I’ll for diversity. I’m all for unity. But the focus really needs to be on how can we connect.” - Darrell Scott

 
Forceps yes, scalpels are used for operations, tell me what civilians use ak-47s for other than shooting people? Opening beer cans?
 
Forceps yes, scalpels are used for operations, tell me what civilians use ak-47s for other than shooting people? Opening beer cans?
Sport, hunting, competition, self-defense.

By the way, the weapon you’re talking about is NOT the AK-47, it’s the AK-S.
 
and everybody owning 4+ guns!
Well, unless you inspected everyone’s house, you wouldn’t know that for sure, now would you?

Most people don’t run around telling everyone that they own guns. Generally speaking, folks are pretty discrete about it.
 
And if we are unable to fix those underlying issues in mankind, what then, eh?
Then allow law abiding people to protect themselves with their own legally obtained guns.

I truly don’t understand how people (I am not saying this in a mean way, I really really don’t understand it like I don’t understand string theory) can think that banning guns would make us safer.

Drugs are illegal right? Heroin, Cocaine, Meth… yet they are all over the place. The drug market does not settle disputes through courts or calling the police. Illegal guns are part of the trade. So just as they bring in tons and tons of these other banned items, they too bring in the guns. So now, the only people who will not have these guns are the law abiding citizens.

Think about it, if you needed some cash to fund your drug trade and were considering breaking into a house to rob it, would you choose a home that had an NRA sticker on the car in the driveway or the one down the street that had an anti gun sticker on it?

I think that most of the people who want to ban guns are those who don’t need them. I think that if they lived in neighborhoods where they feared for their lives more often than not, I think they would have a much different perspective. As they say, guns are the great equalizer. A 5’3" 120lb woman could definitely protect herself from the biggest and strongest assailant.

I sincerely and honestly don’t understand why people can’t see this logic. When the ban on drugs works, then maybe you can talk about how effective a ban on guns would be.
 
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Instead of trying to deduce what would happen if guns were banned, (and I’m not suggesting they should be) from first principles, why not look and see what statistical evidence suggests? There is an old story about a group of monks in the middle ages arguing about how many teeth were in the mouth of a horse. They were also arguing from first principles. When a young monk suggested they go out in the courtyard and take a look in a horse’s mouth and count the teeth, the more experienced monks chastised him severely and the young monk had to admit the error of his ways. (But the story was much funnier than I am able to render it.)
 
How do you accomplish that in the USA?
We start by standing up for what is right right and good. We stop letting the media and celebrities tell us what we should think, how we should behave, and how we should feel. We stop the relativistic point of view that everything is truth and everything is good. We bring God back into the homes and back into culture.

When people behave in a manner that is not conducive to traditional family values, such as some of the horrid stuff going on at the women’s march in 2017, the majority has to have the guts to stand up and say it is not okay to behave that way in public.

We need to make fathers relevant in the lives of their children. We need to honor men as men, not the bumbling idiots the media portrays them to be. We need to empower women to be a woman, not a man in a women’s body. We need to bring back the real definition of feminine.

We need to get rid of the message that money and -stuff- will make one happy. That no one needs the biggest house or the fanciest car, the latest TV or iPhone. We need parents to stop competing with each other on how much their kids can do. We need parent’s to realize the only thing kids really need to be happy is their mom & dad to spend time with them, not toys, play groups, this class or that, this sport or dance.

We need to take time to be. More front porches and less running around. More table time as a family and less eating in the car on the way to one more thing. More neighborhood parties and less Disney vacations.

That is a good place to start.
 
We bring God back into the homes and back into culture.
I don’t see how you are going to convince the American atheists of this.
the majority has to have the guts to stand up and say it is not okay to behave that way in public.
But will they? American movies are pretty popular in the US making billions of dollars every year. And yet I see this foul language and the use of the name of Our Divine Lord in vain in many PG 13 rated movies and where is the outrage at this? It is non-existent. There are no demonstrations or boycotts of movies using the Holy Name of Our Lord in vain. So there is no guts to stand up to the movie industry and therefore your solution simply will not work.
I am with you on your hope that it would work, but in the end there are still going to be tons and tons of guns available for everyone.
 
Cruciferi

2h

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More neighborhood parties
I miss those… (sigh) 😞

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me too…
 
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