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Sirach2
Guest
That would be fine if he was truly “calling for discussions” … but instead, he has asked that there be NO discussions, by taking the topic off the table in October. BIG difference, Brendan.
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SWolf
Guest
Nothing has changed to reopen the issue since JPII came to the orthodox conclusion.
catholicnewsagency.com/resources/sacraments/eucharist/reception-of-holy-communion-by-the-divorced-and-remarried-members-of-the-faithful/
After all the chicanery at last year’s synod, it’s understandable why Burke wants it off the table. I can hardly see how the behavior of some at last year’s synod can be seen as remotely Christian.
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sps49
Guest
So you have nothing.Not difficult - just highly imprudent!
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kozlosap
Guest
Excellent observation! Burke appears to only want the synod to be for show only, not a real discussion on very important issues that affect millions of Catholics. Thanks again for your insightful posts!
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kozlosap
Guest
Papa Francis doesn’t need your prayers too? When reading your prayer list, the absence of The Holy Father stuck out like a hurt thumb.Thanks for your wise (name removed by moderator)ut, TIGG!
Dear Tigg
How true, how true :sad_yes:
"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil, who change darkness into light,
and light into darkness, who change bitter into sweet, and sweet into bitter!
Woe to those who are wise in their own sight, and prudent in their own esteem."
Isaiah 5; 20-21…
"Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and
utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the
prophets who were before you."
**GOD BLESS CARDINAL BURKE!!
My prayers, daily Mass are for Cardinal Burke, Archbishop Cordileone, Bishop Schneider, Archbishop Conley, etc. etc. etc.
May Saint Michael the Archangel protect them all :knight2:
May Our Blessed Mother keep them safe & guide them in their hard hard
paths…
Kyrie Eleison
Christe Eleison
Thank you, ABYSSINIA for the thread.
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sps49
Guest
Was that a hint of judgement of an aspect another person’s spiritual life?Papa Francis doesn’t need your prayers too? When reading your prayer list, the absence of The Holy Father stuck out like a hurt thumb.
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ProVobis
Guest
Three "etc"s can cover over 7 billion people, IMO.Papa Francis doesn’t need your prayers too? When reading your prayer list, the absence of The Holy Father stuck out like a hurt thumb.
et cet·er·a
et ˈsedərə/
adverb
adverb: et cetera; adverb: etcetera
Code:
used at the end of a list to indicate that further, similar items are included.
"we're trying to resolve problems of obtaining equipment, drugs, et cetera"
synonyms: and so on, and so forth, and the rest, and/or the like, and suchlike, among others, et al., etc.; More
informaland what have you, and whatnot, and on and on, yadda yadda yadda
"they make their own linguine, fettuccine, ziti, lasagna, et cetera"
indicating that a list is too tedious or clichéd to give in full.
"we've all got to do our duty, pull our weight, et cetera, et cetera"
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Corki
Guest
I disagree. The Synod is not going to change doctrine. It can’t even change discipline. At most the Synod could result in a recommendation that certain disciplines or processes be changed. It is not wrong for Church leaders to remind the public and the press of this. And it is not wrong for a Church leader to desire that the Synod be primarily focused more on the **positive **ways the Church can support families and less on the things that cannot be changed. They Synod, by its nature, must have a limited scope. The only disagreement is on how those limits should be implemented.
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estesbob
Guest
I think many who are criticizing Cardinal Burke are going to be sorely disappointed when the Synod is complete. At some point people are going to have to realize the Pope really is Catholic
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LongingSoul
Guest
I for one will not be disappointed with anything that Pope Francis and the Church arrive at after the process. We have the guarantee that the Church cannot teach error on faith and morals. If the case it once again closed without development this time, that will be fine. If there is some new aspect to illuminate the whole issue, I will marvel at the wonders of Gods love and the mysteries that He allows us in on little by little. Either way, I won’t be disappointed.
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estesbob
Guest
I am curious-what possibly could come out of this Synod that is any different than what the Church teaches now? What do you mean by “development”? I thought the Church already had the fullness of Truth. Does Truth “Develop”?
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LongingSoul
Guest
If Pope Francis and a majority of the Cardinals feel it is an issue worth giving further examination to, there must be more that can be known for the institution of marriage and the edification of the faithful. Popes are often both holy and educated men who desire to seek constantly for Gods will for their flock. Otherwise they’d be sitting in the Vatican playing tiddlywinks until Sunday Mass duties.
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Pulvis
Guest
Depends on whom you ask. Apparently some in the hierarchy think it does, or at least the understanding of it does. We shall see.
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Ender
Guest
This is the only reason to believe that the synod won’t change the teaching that divorced and remarried Catholics may not receive communion. Not because they don’t want to but because they can’t. Those who accept that the teaching could change apparently believe we cannot know truth, and that what we accept as truth today could turn out to be false tomorrow.
Either a person who is divorced and remarried should be allowed or should not be allowed to receive communion. What we believe today is that he should not. How can we glibly assert that we don’t care which it is, that we are prepared to accept either of two contradictory positions? Beyond that, if we believe something is true today, how can we believe it is false tomorrow and have any confidence that other things we believe true will not also be declared false?
How, in fact, can we believe the Church cannot teach error on faith and morals if she reverses her position here? Doesn’t that mean that either the new position or the old one was …in error?
Ender
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kozlosap
Guest
What I mean is that why would anyone go to a meeting if there was not to be a frank and honest discussion about the social issues of the current age? Anyone can sit down and read the rulebook, however, that is not what the synod is for. I can’t imagine that anyone here thinks that Papa Francis is not a true son of the Church. Showing in public a little compassion for those who are divorced or in irregular situations is not harmful, just living out how we should treat each other. Those who are trying to co-op the synod before it even starts seem to have an agenda that is quite different than what the Holy Father wants. Those that are afraid of open dialogue need to just listen to the Pope.
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otjm
Guest
It is always interesting to see issues in black and white. As a matter of fact, of which I know you are aware, there are circumstances under which a married couple in an irregular marriage may receive Communion, and that is if they live as brother and sister. So all of a sudden, absolute black and white is not so completely so.
It is up to the Pope ultimately to decide, through the consultation accorded by the synod, whether there is any extension or permutation which impacts that issue. Maybe there will be, maybe there won’t be. And if a decision should be made that enlarges the current exception, it will be done under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
It may be simplistic, but those who cannot see any other alternatives are not likely to be the ones who would propose anything in terms of the disciplinary parameters.
And if any such extension, however narrow, should become reality, we can all rest assured that the Holy Spirit guides the Church still, and still keeps it from error.
In the meanwhile, there are a number of other issues which the synod will focus on besides this; and in the meanwhile, we might also reflect on the comments the Pope has made recently, that neither doctrine nor morals are going to be changed.
But the short of it is there will not be a reversal. The guidance of the Holy Spirit ahs assured us of that over the last 2000 years; and not all matter decided are reversals.
I strongly suspect that prior to the change of the Code of Canon law, there were people who were familiar with the grounds for which there could be a finding that a marriage was not valid, who insisted that there absolutely could be no other grounds.
The new Code set forth additional grounds.
And doctrine did not change, although I have spoken with some who feel that it did.
Perhaps waiting, and praying for the guidance of the Holy Spirit might be more in order than us, who are not trained, telling Rome what can or cannot happen.
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Sirach2
Guest
Quite an agenda, indeed. Here’s another comment from Burke:What I mean is that why would anyone go to a meeting if there was not to be a frank and honest discussion about the social issues of the current age? Anyone can sit down and read the rulebook, however, that is not what the synod is for. …]
Those who are trying to co-op the synod before it even starts seem to have an agenda that is quite different than what the Holy Father wants. Those that are afraid of open dialogue need to just listen to the Pope.
Q. Returning to a point you previously mentioned, you noted that even though three contentious paragraphs failed to garner the required two-thirds majority, they were included in the final relatio. You subsequently called for these “hot-button topics” to be removed from consideration. Do you think there is a legitimate possibility that they will be taken off the table prior to the General Synod?
A. I trust that there is a possibility that these topics will be taken off the table prior to the General Synod — that is precisely why I have insisted upon it.
But it will not happen easily because those insisting on their consideration are in positions of great influence with regard to the Synod of Bishops. …]I am hopeful that there will be opportunities for the lay faithful to take part in days of study with regard to the Church’s teaching on marriage and its beauty.** I also hope that there might be ‘demonstrations and other public manifestations’** in support of the truth about marriage.
Anyone who believes he is not inciting the faithful and/or opposing Pope Francis’ direction in summoning the Synod, doesn’t know how to read.
Mark121359
Well-known member
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ProVobis
Guest
There won’t be any change in doctrine. However, I’m sure after the final statement is released, we’ll be dealing and analyzing the language, interpretations, and gist of that statement. And, of course, lots of bishops’ reactions to that statement. Maybe both sides will be cheering; maybe both will be weeping. Who knows?
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