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Truthstalker
Guest
I am also avoiding the topic of this thread. I just wanted to talk to Batman. 
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batman1973
Guest
Becauseā¦wait for itā¦ IāM BATMAN!!!I am also avoiding the topic of this thread. I just wanted to talk to Batman.
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Truthstalker
Guest
My hero!!!Becauseā¦wait for itā¦ IāM BATMAN!!!
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PRmerger
Guest
Can you proffer one teaching that bothers you the most?
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PRmerger
Guest
So, batman, what do you make of Jesusā words that divorce and re-marriage is adultery?Becauseā¦wait for itā¦ IāM BATMAN!!!
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Bella92
Guest
Iāll give you some. I donāt believe I was born sinful or bad. I believe I was born pure as the driven snow, to two very devout practicing Catholics who are very good people. I donāt believe the sin of Adam and Eve has anything to do with me, and I donāt believe I was born stained or corrupted or lacking in Godās grace or blessing because of it. I reject out of hand everytime I hear someone say Iām a corrupt person and naturally inclined to evil because of original sin. Iām not and I donāt believe I ever was. I donāt believe masturbation or sex before marriage is wrong or sinful. I donāt believe gay marriage is wrong or sinful. I donāt believe sex between people of the same sex is wrong or sinful (let me declare my interest here - Iām bisexual). Theyāre just some of the many things I donāt accept that upsets my family.
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PRmerger
Guest
Fair enough. I appreciate your candor.
Letās start with where your basic beliefs in Christianity come from. The things that you accept regarding Christianityāwhere do these beliefs come from?
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Bella92
Guest
My parents, mostly my mother. She brought me to mass every Sunday, we prayed the Angelus every day at 6pm at home, and it was she that gave me whatever understanding I have of faith and Christianity by reading and studying the Bible and catechism together. I never felt I learned anything from the priests and nuns in our Church growing up (my communion and confirmation experience and my personal experiences with nuns has been awful) and I never felt anything in the Church growing up. If it wasnāt for my mother, I would have no faith at all.
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PRmerger
Guest
Regarding your first objection to Catholic teaching, I think that is easily refuted by even a cursory reading of any newspaper.
No one can read about human behavior and doubt that Original Sin exists!
Clearly, we are not right. This is not how we were meant to be, eh?
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ltwin
Guest
Weāre all one family. Yeah, we fight often and many of us donāt get along. We disagree, and while that may be troubling for you it isnāt troubling for me. While doctrinal differences are real, at least we arenāt burning each other at the stake anymore. We can talk about our differences, and while this is messy and confusing I believe we have to talk about our similarities and our differences.
For a long time, Pentecostals cultivated this image of themselves as the Spirit filled church in contrast to the ādeadā old line denominations. But then the Charismatic Movement began in the Catholic and Mainline Protestant churches. Pentecostals looked on in horror and confusion (but also vindication) as they began to see the Spirit move in the historic churches. They were horrified and confused because the old line churches were experiencing a move of the Spiritās power that Pentecostals had known but without adopting all the Pentecostal doctrinal and cultural baggage. In the end, the Charismatic Movement helped the Pentecostal movement get rid of a lot of legalistic traditions that had developed, and it motivated them to take a look at what they believed and why they believed it. While Pentecostals didnāt get rid of everything that made them distinctive, they were challenged to acknowledge and reach out to parts of the Body of Christ that they had been estranged from.
I use the hard lessons that my own tradition had to (and in some quarters still trying to) learn, to illustrate how I believe the differences in the Body of Christ can work to perfect the church. I believe we need each other, and that we should all pray for unity. I have not the slightest idea how unity will happen, which is why we need to pray!
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PRmerger
Guest
What I meant was, the things you believe about Christianity, where do these beliefs come from?
Do you believe, for example, that there is One God?
Do you believe that He created the world?
Do you believe Jesus is God?
Do you believe he loves you?
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Bella92
Guest
I donāt know what you mean.
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Bella92
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jmcrae
Guest
When you open the newspaper, you read about people hurting each other, accidents, and natural disasters.
Do you think these people who hurt each other are āpure as the driven snowā? Or is there something the matter with them that makes them do bad things? (Perhaps we could call it something - how about āsinā?)
Do you think God intended to create a world in which people get hurt - a world that seems to attack itself every so often and wipe out every living thing in a particular region? Or is there maybe something the matter with the world, that God didnāt intend?
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ltwin
Guest
School shootings, terrorism, the stoning of women.
In my town, a young man who I went to school with shot a man he didnāt know outside of a bar in cold blood. The owner of the bar came outside to check out what was happening and the kid shot him too. The reason? He was trying to join a gang.
All of us are sinful. While we may never commit murder, have you hated someone before? Jesus said to hate someone in your heart is murder. Have you looked at someone you were not married to and had lustful thoughts toward that person? Jesus said youāve committed adultery in your heart.
All of us are sinners.
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jmcrae
Guest
If you donāt believe in Jesus or God or in the Creation, what is it that you have āfaithā in?
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Bella92
Guest
We could call it mental illness, we could call it psychopathology, we could call it the pressure of modern day living on some people, we could call it any number of things. Of course itās wrong and sinful, but I think thereās better reasons to explain a lot of this, than the term original sin, committed by two people thousands of years ago. If there is a God, I do agree the way we behave to each other today is not what He would want, but I also think a lot of people who sin the way they do, wouldnāt, if their circumstances were different. I see it as the circumstances they find themselves in, or their illnesses, at the root of their actions, not some original sin.
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jmcrae
Guest
And yet, it seems as if everyone commits sin - not everyone does things that get reported in the newspaper, but itās often the little things nobody ever notices that do the most damage.
How is it that nearly everyone on earth seems to have this strong tendency to do the wrong thing, even when they know what is right?
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Bella92
Guest
To be perfectly honest with you, Iām not sure anymore. I donāt feel the love or presence of God in my life. I honestly think at this stage, I canāt say I donāt believe in God, because of the job my mother did on me growing up. I believed everything my mother said, because sheās my mother. But I never felt what she felt, in her faith.If you donāt believe in Jesus or God or in the Creation, what is it that you have āfaithā in?
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jmcrae
Guest
Well, the good news is that itās not about feelings. Truth is truth, regardless of what we feel.
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