What Catholic teachings do I object to?

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jmcrae said:
How is it that nearly everyone on earth seems to have this strong tendency to do the wrong thing, even when they know what is right?
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I think things like murder are cut and dry, but I don’t think this tendency to do wrong, is an accurate description in most cases, but Church teaching makes them wrong. I don’t think masturbation is wrong, but the Church says it is. I don’t think making love to someone the same sex as you is wrong, but the Church says it is. I don’t think sex outside of marriage is wrong but the Church says it is. So, even though I’ve never told a lie (that I can remember), stolen anything, or murdered anyone, the Church says I am a seriously disordered person, and thus have an irresistable inclination to sin. But I don’t see what I do as sinning. I know the Church does though, and so too do my family. Funnily enough, I feel worse about upsetting my family, than I do about what the Church thinks of me.
 
Bella92 said:
Of course it’s wrong and sinful, but I think there’s better reasons to explain a lot of this, than the term original sin, committed by two people thousands of years ago.
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Perhaps if you could express what it is that you think the Catholic Church teaches regarding Original Sin (in your own words), and then why you reject it.

Often, people say that they disagree with any particular teaching of the CC, only to find out that what they’re rejecting isn’t even being proclaimed by the Church.
 
jmcrae said:
Well, the good news is that it’s not about feelings. Truth is truth, regardless of what we feel. 🙂
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When asked the question do you believe God loves you, doesn’t feeling come into it? Don’t you need to feel loved as well as believe you’re loved?
 
Bella92 said:
I think things like murder are cut and dry, but I don’t think this tendency to do wrong, is an accurate description in most cases, but Church teaching makes them wrong. I don’t think masturbation is wrong, but the Church says it is.
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Do you understand why the Church says it’s wrong? Do you understand the Church’s teaching on human sexuality - and why the things that go against the human aspect of sexuality are “less than” (which is really what “sinful” means - to “sin” is to “miss the mark”) ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
Which you have failed to answer:
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Where is the CANON of Scripture mentioned IN the Bible and “developed” closer to Scripture?
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Itwin:
Maybe I’m slow, but this sentence doesn’t make any sense to me.
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At this point, I’ll simply be repeating what I’ve already written on this thread. I don’t see any reason in restating it.
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But you have not repeated,because you have yet to answer me. Again:

Where is the CANON of Scripture mentioned IN the Bible?

The above is clear as crystal. The more you avoid it, the more it tells me I am correct about the canon not being mentioned anywhere in the Bible.
 
PRmerger said:
Perhaps if you could express what it is that you think the Catholic Church teaches regarding Original Sin (in your own words), and then why you reject it.

Often, people say that they disagree with any particular teaching of the CC, only to find out that what they’re rejecting isn’t even being proclaimed by the Church.
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Through original sin, mankind became subjected to corruption, inclination to sin, and death, and although I was not born guilty of the actual sin of the original disobedience of Adam and Eve, the effect of their disobedience and the consequences of it, have been passed on to me. For that reason, I need to be baptised to be cleansed of this stain of original sin and be brought into the family of God through the effectiveness of this rite of baptism. That’s roughly what I understand original sin to be.
 
Bella92 said:
Through original sin, mankind became subjected to corruption, inclination to sin, and death, and although I was not born guilty of the actual sin of the original disobedience of Adam and Eve, the effect of their disobedience and the consequences of it, have been passed on to me. For that reason, I need to be baptised to be cleansed of this stain of original sin and be brought into the family of God through the effectiveness of this rite of baptism. That’s roughly what I understand original sin to be.
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Very good! I am impressed! :clapping:

I would only add that we lost “sanctifying grace” through the sin of Adam.

Now, when you look at our world, does that not seem consistent with the concept of Original Sin.
 
jmcrae said:
Do you understand why the Church says it’s wrong? Do you understand the Church’s teaching on human sexuality - and why the things that go against the human aspect of sexuality are “less than” (which is really what “sinful” means - to “sin” is to “miss the mark”) ?
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I think so. The Church says sex must be between a man and a woman and furthermore it must be open to new life and must only happen within marriage. The Church sees sex as primarily for new life. So obviously it will object to contraception, same sex activity, and sex outside of marriage. I don’t see sex like that. I see sex as primarily for pleasure, which, in certain circumstances, can lead to new life, if that’s what the couple want. I know how wrong the Church says that is. But that’s how it is for me. Apart from the Church saying so, I can’t see anything wrong with me having sex with someone.
 
october_baby said:
than that I agree with you, protestant-catholic cooperation on a layperson level is fantasy. too many protestants are too close minded, living in a protestant country where religious relativism
is mainstream. 😊
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May I respectfully disagree? My third born child has Catholic god-parents. Several times a year, I attend mass, and several times a year I drag a Catholic or two to our service. I marched in the anti-HHS mandate protest with my family, and one of my Catholic friends is teaching one of our Sunday School classes, just as there’s many Catholic students in my LCMS church’s school.

It’s up to us to co-operate with each other, and frankly, I find it easier than squabbling.
 
PRmerger said:
Very good! I am impressed! :clapping:

I would only add that we lost “sanctifying grace” through the sin of Adam.

Now, when you look at our world, does that not seem consistent with the concept of Original Sin.
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You can thank my mother. I don’t think it is consistent, because I don’t think most people lead bad lives. I don’t think a lot of what the Church would say is indicative of corruption actually applies to most people. I’ve travelled a lot and with very few exceptions, all the people I’ve met have been nothing but lovely, helpful, kind, considerate, thoughtful and all round nice people, people you’d be happy to know. I think, for example, since most people would masturbate, or be tempted to, this is a thing the Church would say means we’re all naturally inclined to sin. But I don’t think masturbation is sinful. So I wouldn’t agree with that.
 
Bella92 said:
You can thank my mother. I don’t think it is consistent, because I don’t think most people lead bad lives. I don’t think a lot of what the Church would say is indicative of corruption actually applies to most people. I’ve travelled a lot and with very few exceptions, all the people I’ve met have been nothing but lovely, helpful, kind, considerate, thoughtful and all round nice people, people you’d be happy to know. I think, for example, since most people would masturbate, or be tempted to, this is a thing the Church would say means we’re all naturally inclined to sin. But I don’t think masturbation is sinful. So I wouldn’t agree with that.
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You’ve never answered your mother back? Or snapped at someone?

Have you ever felt remorse for some action you’ve done that you knew you shouldn’t have done, Bella?

Really?
 
benjohnson said:
As I understand it, my Baptist friend views that it was the Holy Spirit, not the church, that got the canon right. That view has a bit of my sympathy, as in a way, it is wise to acknowledge that all of our grace-filled deeds as ultimately our response to God.

We struggle with a similar issue in my own chruch - where is the right balance in that knowing that the church is God’s holy house, but at the same time is subject to the foibles of a human institution. Frankly, I think Catholics have thought about it more than us.

I’m reminded of C.S. Lewis’ quote:

“The man who is contented to be only himself, and therefore less a self, is in prison. My own eyes are not enough for me, I will see through those of others. Reality, even seen through the eyes of many, is not enough. I will see what others have invented …. in reading great literature I become a thousand men and yet remain myself. Like the night sky in the Greek poem, I see with a myriad eyes, but it is still I who see. Here, as in worship, in love, in moral action, and in knowing, I transcend myself; and am never more myself than when I do.”
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Did the Holy Spirit help a group of men with the Church?

I think we can agree that the canon didn’t fall down from the sky and someone happen to walk by an pick it up :😉
 
PRmerger said:
You’ve never answered your mother back? Or snapped at someone?

Have you ever felt remorse for some action you’ve done that you knew you shouldn’t have done, Bella?

Really?
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No, I can put my hand on my heart and honestly say I’ve never answered my mother back, and I’ve never snapped at anyone. I honestly also can’t remember feeling regret at anything I’ve done. Maybe in years to come I might, who knows, but right now, honestly, I don’t regret anything or feel remorse about anything. I think the closest I can get to it is knowing my family are upset with me when it comes to Catholicism and my lifestyle. I know it upsets them, and that upsets me in a way, but I don’t feel remorse. If I did, if I believed I was doing anything wrong, I would stop. But I don’t. But I also don’t like knowing they’re upset with me.
 
benjohnson said:
I (almost) certainly agree! But the paradox is that if you look only at Scripture, it doesn’t spell out in concrete terms that “All doctrines are grounded in Scripture.”

Where I disagree is that Lutherans would say “All doctrines should be corrected by Scripture” - we acknowledge Tradition, teaching Authority and other sources. We only demand that they are compatible with scripture.
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This is a very Catholic approach. The only difference is how we approach the meaning of Scripture. Catholics (and Orthdox) read through the lens of Sacred Tradition, so we understand if from the point of view of those who wrote it.

Reading it outside that Sacred Tradition produces a plethora of meanings, some of which are in contradiction to what the HS has already revealed to the Church.
 
Bella92 said:
No, I can put my hand on my heart and honestly say I’ve never answered my mother back, and I’ve never snapped at anyone. I honestly also can’t remember feeling regret at anything I’ve done. Maybe in years to come I might, who knows, but right now, honestly, I don’t regret anything or feel remorse about anything. I think the closest I can get to it is knowing my family are upset with me when it comes to Catholicism and my lifestyle. I know it upsets them, and that upsets me in a way, but I don’t feel remorse. If I did, if I believed I was doing anything wrong, I would stop. But I don’t. But I also don’t like knowing they’re upset with me.
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Ok. Fair enough. 🤷
 
PRmerger said:
So, batman, what do you make of Jesus’ words that divorce and re-marriage is adultery?
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Speaking for myself, I hate it. It is an inconvenient truth and the old Adam part of me looks for every possible loophole to escape this fact.
 
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