What Changes Would You Make To The NO Mass ?

[Magnum_V8]

The lot of you wanting to get rid of female alter servers are morons. I planned the masses at my catholic high school. We had a total of 5 different servers in the time I was there. 4 were girls. My senior year was the first time I managed to get a guy to serve. It was hard enough getting girls to serve. Out of my 4 years 90% of the masses hard one or both of a pair of sisters. And if you try to make me wear a veil to church, I’ll find a different church. I won’t like finding a new one, but I will. I either that or I just won’t wear a veil. If you put the mass in Latin I’ll leave. I’m not learning another language just so I can understand mass. Jeez. The mass was done in Latin originally because THAT WAS THE VERNACULAR.

Yes, when zero males are willing to serve mass, then what other option is there?

With the rest of your post I disagree.

The veil/mantilla is a beautiful expression of humility in the presence of our Lord. It was a customary practice for almost 2 thousand years, and even made mandatory in the Canon Law of 1917. Yes, its not mentioned in the 1983 Canon Law, but the custom of wearing it went out long before 1983…the women’s “liberation” of the sixties and seventies is the more likely influence.

And you do know, of course, that you wouldn’t need to learn another language; there are missals printed in both Latin and English for you to follow along. Besides, Latin is still the official language of the church. Don’t hate on it so much. I have no problem with the vernacular, but there is something immeasurably enchanting about the Latin Mass.

 

[ravenonthecross]

1.only altar boys(must wear black shoes can’t stand sneaker shoes) 2.no extra ordinary ministers of Holy Communion( if there need be, only men. 3.no lectors( if there needs to be, only men) 4. Latin must be retained(Sanctus,Gloria, Our Father,Agnus Dei , and of course in greek the Kyrie) 5.no more Holy Communion in the hand( kneeling for Holy Communion if you can) 6. Only traditional Catholic Hymns, only the organ used or chant 7.Priest and people facing towards the tabernacle so the tabernacle must be put back on the Altar 8.Incense and bells must be used and of course real candles on the Altar.Visible Crucifix must be on the Altar 9.More traditional looking vestments for the priests 10.Remove the sign of peace all together( have coffee and donuts or refreshments after mass in another building or tented area for social interaction. share peace with one another there) 11.No liturgical dance movement!!! (this is also mandatory) 12.Only Gold or precious metal chalices (I believe this is already mandatory) 13.Kneeling after The Agnus Dei required. 14. Kneeling or sitting after recieving Holy Communion required. 15. Prayer To St. Michael The Archangel after Mass has ended . 16. Only the priest, altar boys in the Sanctuary . ( only when needed lay men) 17. Only Eucharistic prayer 1 and The Creed would be nice to have in latin! I believe if these things I posted above were done we would see more reverence and modesty in dress at Holy Mass. Bishops and Priests need to preach solid orthodox homilies of course.

I’d be all for this. This is what St. Agnes Parish in St. Paul Minnesota does. Latin High Novus Ordo Mass, with incense, polyphony, gregorian chant, ad orientem, tabernacle on the High altar against the apse. With Latin-English Missals for the laity, and strongly trained Chant schola and choir which does orchestal masses, and only reverant polyphony and classic Catholic Hymns Pre-1960s. Here’s their webpage: stagnes.net/

Make the NO mandatory like they do It (the music need only be at least Gregorian Chant, and reverant traditional vernacular hymns pre-1960s), with both reverant Vernacular and Solemn Latin NO High Masses, and the church will blossom and be reinvigorated!!

 

[Arwen037]

Oh yeah, and as far as not having the Eucharistic ministers. One of my priests is almost wheelchair bound. He can stand long enough to read the gospel, give the homily, and say the prayers, but can’t stand for the whole distribution. I have a large church. this means that the deacon would have to give the bread and wine, by himself, to over a hundred people.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Oh yeah, and as far as not having the Eucharistic ministers. One of my priests is almost wheelchair bound. He can stand long enough to read the gospel, give the homily, and say the prayers, but can’t stand for the whole distribution. I have a large church. this means that the deacon would have to give the bread and wine, by himself, to over a hundred people.

At the Byzantine Catholic parish I attend Father has to do this all by himself for over a100 people - and the prayer for giving communion is longer and it is done on a spoon.

Your deacon could handle offering the Eucharist in the element of the host to 100 people. If it took even 3 seconds for each communicant (and lets be honest, it does not) than it would take 5 minutes for 100 people. Probably far less.

 

[Steve40]

I would make a more visible sign of reverence before you recieve the Eucharist mandatory. A few years ago the Vatican said in the Roman Missal that you should genuflect before you recieve. The wimpy US Bishops wrote back and said because of cultural differences we want to bow. The Vatican wrote back and allowed the bow but also said they must permit recieving on your knees.

My pastor turned the bow into a head knod. I say to hell with our culture, I’m going to genuflect. I have heard it said that this shows disunity. I like to think of it more as diversity, but if they want to say I am not united with them because of this then they are free to think what they want.

 

[KathleenElsie]

We can see the divide in the Church even by the pastor of a parish and his associate.

It is subtle but revealing. In my parish, for example, the pastor, when he is the celebrant, NEVER wears a chasuble with a religious symbol woven into it like a cross or any other symbol representative of Christ.

Instead ALL of his vestments are either plaid or some kind of tweed design of the color of the time of the Church calendar.

On the other hand, his associate, a much younger man, chooses the traditional vestments and even wears the blacktassled priest hat on entrance. One parish with noticeable contrasts in the priests. Could this be a sign that we still have a trickle of a young priest here and there in these trying times?

LOL (sorry but had to say that ) The only seminaries that are overflowing and have no room are the Traditional ones. Sure they are smaller. There are fewer of us Traditional Catholics for the last 40 years . But when you take our smallish numbers and then look at the percentage of vocations we produce you will see that we are growing by leaps and bounds.

Our NO seminaries tend to be mostly empty even if they are the cheaper alternative to the other ones. Both the NO and Traditional seminaries are capable of producing good priests. But IMHO the more traditional leaning young men have a harder time staying true to their traditional practices in the local seminary.

 

[marchoi]

Where did the pope say that neither is better than the other. Or, did he say nothing and you assume that is his position.

.

If Pope BXVI meant to say that one form was better than the other, then he would be defeating his own purpose. If his motu proprio was meant to bring unity, how would he expect to do so by saying one form is better than the other?

But back to the question at hand…

I’d like to see certain aspects of the Novus Ordo Mass change, but not enough to make it the Tridentine Mass. Let’s be honest, people have problems with liturgical abuse within the Novus Ordo Mass, not the Novus Ordo Mass itself. A properly done Novus Ordo (i.e. one without liturgical abuse) would most likely satisfy everyone here. And if it doesn’t, then you’re probably missing the point, that even with different forms, it’s still Mass.

1. Better selection of hymns. I don’t mind non-chant, as long as it doesn’t sound like it came from Broadway.
2. Prayers in Latin - it really does help with the universality of the Church. I’m talking Gloria, Creed, Our Father, Agnus Dei, etc. I guess the argument for the consecration in Latin can go either way, I personally think it helps (in focusing on the Mass) to be able to understand the words of consecration.
3. Male servers when possible, but female servers shouldn’t be outright banned. The only exception would be the “High Mass”-equivalent e.g. a bishop is presiding, Mass at a cathedral, etc. just because the public face of servers should be “It’s promoting vocations to the priesthood.”
4. Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are extraordinary. Should be allowed, but not abused. 9/10 probably don’t need them during daily Mass. Sunday Mass with several hundred people, understandable.
5. Better understanding of reverence. Yeah, I’m not the most reverent person, but I would like to see more reverence towards the Eucharist. NOT talking about making people receive kneeling on their tongues, NOT talking about making women wear chapel veils. Just a simple step of, “Please remember that you are in the presence of the Lord. This is God’s house, not yours.” People can make their own decisions as to how they want to treat God’s house.

Obviously, this is a matter of personal preference. But you asked, I answered.

 

[DaughterSorrow]

As a young child, my Dad took me to the TLM downtown a few times a year, so I developed a love for that, but I truly feel the NO has me engaged in the particular liturgy more when celebrated well.

Having said that, changes I would LOVE:

1. Sacred music needs to be kept more traditional: gregorian chant preferrably. Instrumental music (preferrably light organ) during communion. No more guitar masses!!!
2. Only male altar servers
3. No EM’s. I have seen too many show a lack of respect for our Lord while serving.
4. Eucharistic prayers unalterable!!!
5. Kyrie in original Greek
6. Every liturgical minister (most particularly lectors and cantors) must be Roman Catholic!!! (yes, we have had others. Not often, but it has happened. )

In Peace,
DS

 

[johnstown_johnn]

Reading the posts here on this topic is a revelation on how much the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass has deteriorated and is an ongoing thing.

I still believe the Church will have some kind of division: those that favor inovativeness in the Mass and those that desire Tradition and consistancy.

The oathes of political office such as the presidency are still not ambiguous and yet the most solemn parts of the Mass, in places, become an ad-lib.

Seems like secular things keep the wording traditional but our Holy Mass can be improvised in its wordings.

There is no protocol in some parishes as mentioned here in posts. It seems the Mass is celebrated whimsically in places.

 

[MrS]

The lot of you wanting to get rid of female alter servers are morons. I planned the masses at my catholic high school. .

Your bio says you are Luthern… yet you planned the Mass??

What is wrong with that picture

Perhaps you might reconsider and try to see the difference in a “horizontal” liturgy where the people and fellowship, and creativity are important…

and a “vertical” liturgy where only reverence to God is important.

The Church, speaking thru Cardinal Arinze, has called the former an heresy, and the latter the correct action of us all.

 

[Walking_Home]

Your bio says you are Luthern… yet you planned the Mass??

What is wrong with that picture

Perhaps you might reconsider and try to see the difference in a “horizontal” liturgy where the people and fellowship, and creativity are important…

and a “vertical” liturgy where only reverence to God is important.

The Church, speaking thru Cardinal Arinze, has called the former an heresy, and the latter the correct action of us all.

---

I second that—

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Oh yeah, and as far as not having the Eucharistic ministers. One of my priests is almost wheelchair bound. He can stand long enough to read the gospel, give the homily, and say the prayers, but can’t stand for the whole distribution. I have a large church. this means that the deacon would have to give the bread and wine, by himself, to over a hundred people.

Hence why we need the communion rail back. A deacon would easily be able to give Communion to over 100 people, without an issue.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

---

I second that—

Thirding it

 

[KathleenElsie]

The lot of you wanting to get rid of female alter servers are morons. I planned the masses at my catholic high school. We had a total of 5 different servers in the time I was there. 4 were girls. My senior year was the first time I managed to get a guy to serve. It was hard enough getting girls to serve. Out of my 4 years 90% of the masses hard one or both of a pair of sisters. And if you try to make me wear a veil to church, I’ll find a different church. I won’t like finding a new one, but I will. I either that or I just won’t wear a veil. If you put the mass in Latin I’ll leave. I’m not learning another language just so I can understand mass. Jeez. The mass was done in Latin originally because THAT WAS THE VERNACULAR.

So sorry you felt the need to call us morons. If I offended you an any way I ask your pardon.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Yes, when zero males are willing to serve mass, then what other option is there? When boys are praised for their participation in almost anything they tend to be more willing to do the task. I believe that most of us wives, mothers and grandmothers know what it is to stroke a “male” ego and it usually is well worth the effort. Put it on the level of honor as sports and they will come.
With the rest of your post I disagree.

The veil/mantilla is a beautiful expression of humility in the presence of our Lord. It was a customary practice for almost 2 thousand years, and even made mandatory in the Canon Law of 1917. Yes, its not mentioned in the 1983 Canon Law, but the custom of wearing it went out long before 1983…the women’s “liberation” of the sixties and seventies is the more likely influence.

And you do know, of course, that you wouldn’t need to learn another language; there are missals printed in both Latin and English for you to follow along. Actually there are missals printed in many langues and if you do not speak english your missal would allow you to know where you were in any Mass. Besides, Latin is still the official language of the church. Don’t hate on it so much. I have no problem with the vernacular, but there is something immeasurably enchanting about the Latin Mass.

 

[BobP123]

Oh yeah, and as far as not having the Eucharistic ministers. One of my priests is almost wheelchair bound. He can stand long enough to read the gospel, give the homily, and say the prayers, but can’t stand for the whole distribution. I have a large church. this means that the deacon would have to give the bread and wine, by himself, to over a hundred people.

Actually people’s communion technically is not part of the Mass. Both rites. Maybe better to have communion after Mass? If you’re not worthy, you could just leave and not have to feel forced to go. And if you are or almost worthy, it gives you another 5-10 minutes of fast prior.

As far as any changes to the Mass proper, retain the Latin if you’re going to call it the Mass of Vatican II.

 

[fierysword1920]

I agree I have never been to a Tridentine mass but cases of acknowledged church exorcisms have revealed that the Tridentine mass is much more favorable to the Kingdom of Heaven, So I say we go back as well, so that we can go forward.

The abolishment of the indult for the use of vernacular, mandating the use of Ad orientum Altars, the abolishment of the indult for Communion in the hand, forbidding the use of lay ministers and Altar girls, a complete overhaul of prayers, both Ordinary and Propers, to make them in line with the Tridentine Mass, going back to a one-year cycle of readings, the restoration of the Subdiaconate and Minor orders, and other similar changes.

Might as well just have the Tridentine

 

[m134e5]

Assuming the NO is here to stay for now as the Pope has indicated, what changes, if any, would you make if you were in a position to do so ?

1.) No more communion in the hand.
2.) Kneeling at the communion rail for communion.
3.) 3-hour communion fast
4.) Women veiled in church.
5.) A mandate that all churches provide at least one hour of adoration, followed by benediction- every day.
6.) Ad Orientem
7.) A mandate that confessions must be scheduled for at least 20 minutes before each Mass, and ending no later than 10 minutes before Mass begins (so they would start at least 30 minutes before Mass).
8.) No more altar girls.
9.) A mandate that all priests wear cassocks wherever they go (within reason- you don’t need them at the beach), and that all deacons (collars- not cassocks- and with a shirt that isn’t black) and seminarians wear them at church functions.
10.) I would restore the prayers at the foot of the altar, all the sequences from the Tridentine liturgy, and the last gospel.
11.) Double genuflection before the Blessed Sacrament exposed in a monstrance.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

no dancers
no drums
no guitars
no clapping
no skits
no movies
no “creativity”

wait… those things shouldn’t be done. but i’m not sure my archdiocese (LA) got the message…

SIGH

I live here in Los Angeles and I know of two parishes fairly close to downtown where you can hear a good, no-nonsense mass offered. I also know where you can be present at the gasp Extraordinary Form of the Mass, too!

Hard to believe, innit?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Sign of Peace moved to after the Confietor.

Only one Canon, the first.

No communion in the hand, not because it’s inherently wrong, but because it’s divisive.

Kneeling at the rail, for BOTH Sacred Species. If they can manage the chalice in this situation in the Episcopal church, then we surely can in the Catholic Church.

Ad orientum.

A space of silence before the Gospel and again after the Homily, then also after Communion and the cleansing of the Sacred Vessels.

Announcements given BEFORE Mass, after which a silence of five minutes should be maintained before Mass commences. OR, alternately, they could assume that most of us can read the bulletin anyway and dispense with the announcements altogether.