What dear friend, do you find strange about Catholicism?

[PJM]

=frangiuliano115;13470736]In what sense do Christians (including Catholics) believe that Jesus has a (human) Mother? Is it Jesus as G-d Who has a Mother, Jesus only as human being Who has a Mother, Jesus the Incarnate Word of G-d Who has a Mother, or Jesus as hypostatic union of G-d and man Who has a Mother? If all of the above, is it really possible for G-d in any Person of the Trinity to have a Mother? This may be easy to answer for a learned Catholic but I find it difficult to understand.

Very interesting question. One many catholics don’t think of.

I know the answer, but let’s see if PJM answers - I think he will.

Fran

Now a different approach with my answer:

A good, yet brief defination of God is: “GOD IS ALL GOOD PERFECTED”

That said: if as both history and the bible attest too, GOD did for a variety of reasons which we can share if your interested, DID freely choose to take on a human nature; like us in every way BUT sin; then that friend would be the greatest of all good things.

Jesus from his inception had two complete and Perfect natures:
His perfect human nature
which co-existed with His always presnt Perfect Divine Nature. God CAN do that:thumbsup:

And THAT friend is precisely why we ought NOT to doubt that it did happen. Goodness & all good things come form God… Said differently: GOOD only exist because God exist.

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

=SAVINGRACE;13470855]Priests do not add to Christs work in the Mass. They re-present the sacrifice, there is no new sacrifice of Christ. The Priest is ordained by the laying on of hands just as Jesus ordained his Apostles. In the Mass the Priest is doing what Jesus asked at the Last Supper “do this in remembrance of me”.

Catholics believe in a “universal priesthood” i.e. all believers (you/me) are priests who can offer intercessions, praises, and spiritual sacrifice. We also believe in a special “ministerial priesthood”. "The very same verses which talk about the universal priesthood imply that there is a non-universal one. (refer Exodus 19:6) It isn’t just the Church which is a kingdom of priests. Israel was a kingdom of priests, too.

If you keep reading in Exodus 19, when you get down to verse 21 & 22, you will find God telling Moses to warn the people and the priests not to come onto the holy mountain, lest the Lord break out against them. So even in the very same chapter God is calling the whole nation a kingdom of priests, there is still a separate, ministerial priesthood.

Please note: this priesthood was not the Levitical priesthood. That wasn’t created until much later in Exodus. This one was not founded on the Law of Moses, but predated the Law, meaning no one can say it was only God’s pattern to have special, ministerial priests under the Mosaic economy. God had priests long before the Mosaic law, as indicated not only by this priesthood in Exodus 19, but by Moses’ father-in-law, Jethro, and by Abraham’s contemporary, Melchizedek." (J.Akin)

Not sure where you got the idea that a sinful people could not approach God. God was not separated from the people in the Old Testament. He communicated directly with Moses and several other characters in the OT.

A really great post and explanation. THANK YOU so very much!

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

=Memaw;13471041]Are you sure your not confusing veneration with Worship??? There is a huge difference you know! God Bless, Memaw

That is precisely what is being done:shrug:

God Bless you!

Patrick

 

[PJM]

=frangiuliano115;13470923]Patrick,
Unfortunately I meant within the Catholic church. I don’t bicker with those outside, I explain. We bicker.

Since we agree on the important stuff, shouldn’t that be enough??

I mean, my idea brings with it much that could be discussed. For instance, maybe we don’t agree on everything because the church has not taught enough in the past years? I think this is changing.

But, I guess the bickering allows others to learn so maybe it’s okay. I’m just not a bickering type of person, I guess.

Fran

Thanks Fran

That depends on what exactly you include as the “important stuff”? If by that you include all, I repeat all Doctrines and Dogma; then I could agree with you. But if their is doubt about even one Doctrine or Dogma; then we have a problem.

And you’re absolutely correct about the lack of PROPER catechesis in the past 50 years or so; both on a national and on a international scale.

That fact has given me my ministry; and for that I’m grateful.

I love what Pope Benedict said in his acceptance speech as our Pope:

:There cannot be your truth and my truth or there would be NO truth."

So we have to be careful what we believe and what we teach in Union with the RCC.

Thank you so very much!

Patrick

 

[PJM]

=frangiuliano115;13470929]Your reality is your truth.

NO

Quite the opposite:TRUTH is your [and mine] reality:thumbsup:

God Bless,

Patrick

 

[TonyBS]

NO

Quite the opposite:TRUTH is your [and mine] reality:thumbsup:

God Bless,

Patrick

Each sees Truth from their own 'Frame of Reference" and major factors such as “Inattentional blindness” add to how we perceive Life and Faith. We can perceive through scripture that “True Reality” is not this life we are currently living, but what “Truth” we Submit too.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[adrift]

Of course I know the difference. We could venerate the saints but worship is only for God.

I don’t know why this is so difficult to believe. Another poster is having a problem with this too. Not all Catholics are knowledgeable. Some are worshiping saints and don’t even really know it.

I don’t live in the states. This might have something to do with it. I had told another poster here that I would be happy to have him meet some of these people.

It might be because the posters here are knowledgeable catholics and know their faith. Not everyone does.

I think this is off topic…

Fran

I do find this difficult. What you are saying is that they believe that saints are gods. It is not possible to worship without knowing that you are worshipping. Tell me how so you know that they believe saints are gods?

 

[adrift]

I already answered PJM regarding, in my opinion, the confusion the word “eucharist” causes.
You also use the terms interchangeably above.

God failing. God didn’t fail. But, overall, man’s reception of his message certainly failed. Ij’m referring to His message. He did try many different ways to make us understand what He wanted: For instance our HEART and not sacrifices even. Different times this is stated. Can’t look up too many right now, but try Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah.

The sacrifice of Jesus is separate, as I understand it and this was planned form the beginning, see Genesis 3.15 - and is accomplished in the cross, as you say. We now understand, fully, what God expects from us as show to us through the teachings of Jesus, the perfect revelation from/of God.

Fran

I don’t think God failed but if you do:shrug: I looked up some of the hear versus sacrifices and found that put into context God is not saying He doesn’t want sacrifices. Jesus was meant as sacrifice or do you think God made a mistake and He didn’t want Jesus to die?

 

[adrift]

I am aware of places that mix paganism with Catholicism. Tell me what places? They would have to believe that these saints are gods.

 

[JustaServant]

Sometimes I wonder what’s worse. Mixing Catholicism with paganism or mixing Catholicism with a secular world view to a point in which people become practical atheists.

 

[TonyBS]

My friend THEY DO happen:thumbsup:

Google “Eucharistic Miracles” and check it out for yourself.

God Bless my friend

Patrick

God Bless you Patrick

Thus in the context of the thread I do find this strange

How a perfect Love for God through Jesus the Christ would have to in any way tried to be materially explained as the bread and wine changing.

To me such a Spiritual Understanding of what the bread and wine signifies is the purpose of the event

It is my opinion that I think it will be a great day when we can know and Love God without the passion of wanting such miraculous events. Yes miracles can and do Happen, but the Love of Christ transcends any of these events. In the end they are only proofs to those that experience them.

Now if miracles are a proof of Religion, are will willing to accept all those that happen to persons of other Faiths

It is the Love of God binds us and may this Love Unite all very soon.

Regards Tony

 

[adrift]

Thank you for your patience and the information.

 

[frangiuliano115]

=PJM;13471621]Very interesting question. One many catholics don’t think of.

I know the answer, but let’s see if PJM answers - I think he will.

Fran

THANKS Fran:

Sure we can prove it Bionically; and through the many Miracles that Jesus Her Son permits Her to do in order to lead more Souls to Her Son.

My friend might I suggest you READ John 19:26 -30 which explains a great deal about Marian Miracles; which I suggest you GOOGLE.

Now for your question:

The “to come Birth of Jesus” was prophesied at lest 700 YEARS before it happened:

That the Messiah [Jesus] would be born from a women was prophesied in the 1st Book of the Bible; now some 4,000 or so years ago;
Genesis 3:15 “I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel”.

**Isiah 7:14 **“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel.” A Name that means GOD IS WITH US

**And again in Psalm 2:7 **.prophised that he would be called the SON OF GOD:
“The Lord hath said to me: Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee”

**Lk. 1: 26-35 **
"And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth,To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’ s name was Mary. And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. [33] And of his kingdom there shall be no end. And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? [MEANING I’m a Virgin] [35] And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God

There is also secular historical information available: Google "secular evidence of Jesus"

Space is limited here on CAF or I’d do it for you.

God Bless you and thanks for asking!

Thanks Fran!

Patrick

Posts get mixed up.

I’m not posting re theokos. Someone else is.

I know about it and will not be googling anything since that’s not my thing anyway.

Anyway, all posts will benefit someone, and I do commend you on your ability to use scripture.

God bless
Fran

 

[Wannano]

My dear friends in Christ;

What if anything do you find stange anout the Catholic Church/ Catholic Faith?

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[frangiuliano115]

No my friend;

Show me just one example of God ever being 'OK" with competing faiths. There is no such thing in the bible.

What we Do find in the bible is God’s retribution time and time again as the Jews slipped and slided into OTHER faiths. WHY?

Because God is “One” [the 1st commandment]

Even God can only hold one belief per defined issue.

That is precisely why God Yahweh of the OT chose ONLY One people. Exo. 6:7 and in doing so HOPED all would understand that if they are not a part of that “One” Church who alone can teach the FULLNESS of God’s truths; then they are in some manner and to varying degrees in competition with God and what HE Desires. Amen!

& That is Why Jesus followed his own Tradition by establishing just One Chosen people which He called : Mt. 16:18-19 “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon [YOU Peter] this rock** I will build my church [Singular]**, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to YOU [all of] the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”

Christ choose to do this so that people COULD know if they are not members of that One Church; then they ought to rethink their faith beliefs; because what you belief is NOT what Christ desired be taught: Mt. 28: 16-20 "And the eleven [remaining] apostles went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. [before Pentecost] And*** Jesus coming, spoke to them***, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach YOU all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world".

READ please mt. 10: 1-8 & John 17: 16-20

One God

Only One set of Faith beliefs

Only One Church to find the fullness of God’s Teachings as proven in these Bible passages I just exposed to you.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven

Any and all faiths outside and not fully aligned with the Catholic Church is competing with God.

God Bless you,

Patrick

God chose a people to whom He felt He could reveal Himself. Maybe because they were inclined to listen, maybe because Abraham was tired of all those gods down in Ur and Harran, maybe because they were good at telling stories and writing things down in a precise manner.

But, check out the Wedding Banquet. The slave went out and invited everyone into the banquet. So He might have started out with one people, but we’re all invited now!

What do you think those faiths outside the catholic church are competing for? Is this a competition? is there not room for everyone in Heaven? Why would you want God all for yourself? This is a strange way to think after years of catechising and evangelizing kids.

I say, the more the merrier!

Fran

 

[frangiuliano115]

I don’t think God failed but if you do:shrug: I looked up some of the hear versus sacrifices and found that put into context God is not saying He doesn’t want sacrifices. Jesus was meant as sacrifice or do you think God made a mistake and He didn’t want Jesus to die?

Adrift,

Where did I say God failed? Sometimes we read what the person did not say!

Okay. So are you saying God STILL wants sacrifices?
No. I don’t think you are. God wants our heart. If you looked up scriptures you must have found this. Did I mention Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel.

Jesus was the last sacrifice. His was sufficient for all time since He is God and God handled the sacrifice problem Himself. You’ll find this concept in Ezekiel. Maybe 33 - 35. Check it out. Others scattered His sheep, but He will gather them into the fold and take care of them.

All the other sacrifices that ever took place in the O.T. were NOT sufficient, but Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient because he was the perfect Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Have you read about this? it’s in Exodus chapters 11 and 12. it’s speaking of Jesus. He is prefigured here.

Let me make this clear: God does not make mistakes.

God bless
Fran

 

[TonyBS]

God chose a people to whom He felt He could reveal Himself. Maybe because they were inclined to listen, maybe because Abraham was tired of all those gods down in Ur and Harran, maybe because they were good at telling stories and writing things down in a precise manner.

But, check out the Wedding Banquet. The slave went out and invited everyone into the banquet. So He might have started out with one people, but we’re all invited now!

What do you think those faiths outside the catholic church are competing for? Is this a competition? is there not room for everyone in Heaven? Why would you want God all for yourself? This is a strange way to think after years of catechising and evangelizing kids.

I say, the more the merrier!

Fran

Yes Dear Fran that is looking with the eye of Unity, that is Gods Way

What I have found is one can pull out any passage they wish to support a view. If God is indeed One, then our View should be directed to considering how scripture makes this so.

One could say we are treading a path not so straight if we would like to prove that a passage of scripture shows one is 'Exclusively Saved". One should consider there is as many more that tell us to broaden our vision!

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

Adrift,

Where did I say God failed? Sometimes we read what the person did not say!

Okay. So are you saying God STILL wants sacrifices?
No. I don’t think you are. God wants our heart. If you looked up scriptures you must have found this. Did I mention Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel.

Jesus was the last sacrifice. His was sufficient for all time since He is God and God handled the sacrifice problem Himself. You’ll find this concept in Ezekiel. Maybe 33 - 35. Check it out. Others scattered His sheep, but He will gather them into the fold and take care of them.

All the other sacrifices that ever took place in the O.T. were NOT sufficient, but Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient because he was the perfect Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Have you read about this? it’s in Exodus chapters 11 and 12. it’s speaking of Jesus. He is prefigured here.

Let me make this clear: God does not make mistakes.

God bless
Fran

Dear Fran - To keep with this thread this is something I could consider strange about Catholicism and for this reason.

I of course appreciate you consider Jesus was the Last sacrifice, it may be worth considering that history has recorded a few more since then and apart from One which mirrored Jesus the Christs Sacrifice to save us from Sin (Bab), two others covered 23 years (Muhammad) and 40 years (Baha’u’llah) of Sacrificing all for the Knowledge and Love of God. Each of these messages were revealed for us to consider that we must consider the message was to turn us from our ways, and there was more to come…"so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Would you also not find it strange then, that an event has been recorded that mirrored the events of Christs Life and Message and had much the same result in people embracing Gods Word, that people would be able to place no importance on one and put all importance on another without the least hesitation, question or research?

I acknowledge that God does not make mistakes what history has taught us is that it takes time for us to understand what is from God and what may not be!

Regards Tony

 

[adrift]

Adrift,

Where did I say God failed? Sometimes we read what the person did not say!

Okay. So are you saying God STILL wants sacrifices?
No. I don’t think you are. God wants our heart. If you looked up scriptures you must have found this. Did I mention Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel.

Jesus was the last sacrifice. His was sufficient for all time since He is God and God handled the sacrifice problem Himself. You’ll find this concept in Ezekiel. Maybe 33 - 35. Check it out. Others scattered His sheep, but He will gather them into the fold and take care of them.

All the other sacrifices that ever took place in the O.T. were NOT sufficient, but Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient because he was the perfect Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Have you read about this? it’s in Exodus chapters 11 and 12. it’s speaking of Jesus. He is prefigured here.

Let me make this clear: God does not make mistakes.

God bless
Fran

You are right sometimes we fail to understand that is why there are questions to clarify. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[adrift]

God chose a people to whom He felt He could reveal Himself. Maybe because they were inclined to listen, maybe because Abraham was tired of all those gods down in Ur and Harran, maybe because they were good at telling stories and writing things down in a precise manner.

But, check out the Wedding Banquet. The slave went out and invited everyone into the banquet. So He might have started out with one people, but we’re all invited now!

What do you think those faiths outside the catholic church are competing for? Is this a competition? is there not room for everyone in Heaven? Why would you want God all for yourself? This is a strange way to think after years of catechising and evangelizing kids.

I say, the more the merrier!

Fran

Don’t forget the end of that parable

12

He said to him, ‘My friend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?’ But he was reduced to silence.

13

7 Then the king said to his attendants, ‘Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’

14

Many are invited, but few are chosen."