What do CAFers think about housing policy, particularly affordable housing for the working class?

  • Thread starter Thread starter RCIAGraduate
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
RCIAGraduate said:
One issue I have is how the working class have to deal with the so called “middle class squeeze” where they struggle to make rent/mortagages and even if they do, they have little room for savings which makes them precarious to personal crises and limits their opportunity for a future such as being able to retire or helping support the higher education of their children (thus ensuring their economic future).

Also, it’s hard to save when housing cost consume much of one’s income, not to mention paying for transportation and insurances like life insurance and health insurance to access medical care. Many working class people (and the lower middle classes) seem to be in a precarious place, unable to derive the benefits of safety nets but far from comfortable compared to their upper class cohort? And it seems the middle class is beginning to falter as well (again in part where housing seems to cost an arm and a leg).
Click to expand...
People exercise their priorities … saving some of their income; housing depends on their priorities; how hard are people willing to apply D-I-Y-ness. Avoiding p*ssing away money on car payments for new cars.

Do they follow Dave Ramsey’s money planning?

Do they avoid borrowing money and avoid unnecessary spending on clothes, sneakers and upscale jeans?
 
MonteRCMS said:
Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Click to expand...
So you did all your work in school from kindergarten on up without an adult there to get you to do it and explain things you didn’t understand and help you through it? Or with one adult handling you and 50+ other kids?
MonteRCMS said:
People exercise their priorities … saving some of their income; housing depends on their priorities; how hard are people willing to apply D-I-Y-ness. Avoiding p*ssing away money on car payments for new cars.

Do they follow Dave Ramsey’s money planning?
Click to expand...
To be quite honest, I found Dave Ramsey pretty unrealistic when you’re truly poor. Most of his financial planning and numbers seem to depend on having a significant amount of excess income in the first place - or if you don’t that you’re able to take on a second job and work 60-80 hours a week and find someone willing to hire you for that.

The poor people I know aren’t blowing money on new cars; they’re blowing it on trying to keep an old junker running so they don’t get fired for being late to work. They’re spending half their income on an apartment with plumbing issues because housing doesn’t come cheaper - or if it does it comes with the risk of being assaulted coming home. They’re borrowing money to be able to afford medication so they don’t end up in the hospital (which you can also be fired for).
 
Average $35 per week on lottery tickets.

Families who make under $12,400 spend about $645 a year on lottery tickets.



click here google youtube poor

Comments:
“I agree with every word Dave said! Getting an 80 inch because the 70 just isnt cutting it ... perfectly sums up peoples over indulging, confused about what really is important. State of mind these days.”

(Megan Mawhinney - YouTube)

(
)

LOVE THIS VIDEO!! It’s SO true! My 2 cents - Everyone is saying the cost of living is so expensive and jobs don’t pay enough these days…comparing 2018 to their parents lives in the 1950’s. And for some reason that is why we are all broke! When in reality the problem is everything that we finance and borrow…which our parents didn’t do in the 1950’s. We finance cell phones with Verizon, tv’s and furniture with Rent-A-Center, cars with Ford motor credit, education with Sallie Mae, cosmetic surgery with Care Credit, vacations on Visa/mastercard, clothes on the JC Penny credit card, engagement rings with Kay. This is why people are broke, and we normalize it as if it’s just part of life.
 
Last edited:
Not all.

There are people out there who genuinely struggle.
If poor people are going to get free housing, then why should anyone work?
Click to expand...
Okay, it doesn’t necessarily have to be “free housing” but paying over 50% if not 60% of one’s income on housing is going to make it difficult for people to save for rainy days in case of crisis, much less for retirements when they won’t be able to work.
Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Click to expand...
Yes, thankfully the United State has universal access to a basic education but for some students it might not be enough. Many students (think SPED or those with not-so-great home/family lives) might require more support but lack access to the services and resources needed to ensure they succeed due to extenuating circumstances.
Average $35 per week on lottery tickets.

Families who make under $12,400 spend about $645 a year on lottery tickets.

http://www1.cbn.com/dave-says-playing-lottery
Click to expand...
Does that discount the struggles of the families who do not? And even if those families are not perfect why must they struggle, things can be difficult for working-class and poor families doing what they can. Meanwhile, $645 can only compound so much in a 401K (would they even accept minimal contributions). though to be fair, it might help with the rainy day fund (but even then, no family is perfect). Darklight is trying to convey real lie issues about people who try but it’s not enough or it seems like a struggle nonetheless. Also, perhaps some buy lotto tickets as a moment of respite in the midst of difficulties and trials they go through, what if these are people mired in desolation? I know I may sounding melodramatic but I am trying to highlight a point.

(Pardon any fallacies I may have made)
 
Last edited:
Is this your personal experience?

Or are you reflecting bar room complaints by others?

Or some comments from teachers?
 
Not so much myself (I should be grateful considering my relative material situation) but rather my sentiments on hearing the experiences and perspectives about others. Why the comment about teachers if I may ask?

Social workers and teachers have a unique perspective that many in society don’t get to see.
 
Last edited:
RCIAGraduate said:
Social workers and teachers have a unique perspective that many in society don’t get to see.
Click to expand...
These people have NO expertise in financial management.

“A 20-year-old may only be able to save $100 per month, but the exercise of saving $100 per month when you are 20 will make it easier for you to go to $200 a month when you are 25 or 30,” says William Valentine, a financial planner and founder of Valentine Ventures in Bend, Ore. “The act of saving is like developing a muscle, and if you start early with small amounts, you will build the saving muscle.”


click here google youtube lotto
 
Last edited:
Why yes, perhaps they may lack in financial and business sense but at least these are professionals and individuals who seek to work with the poor and disadvantaged, with the lowly and meek, with the marginalized and those perhaps overlooked if not rejected by society. They probably know the struggles and possibly even struggle with them as they work with them daily. It must be dreary and difficult but perhaps society can learn them? Those who give back but yet perhaps only see much bitterness and desolation in kind.

Again, forgive me for sounding dramatics, acting like an advocate (I am not, though am someone expressing an opinion (I doth protest/speak too much)) and basically preaching to the choir but I am trying to illustrate a point.
 
Comments by others:

Veronica Bullard](Veronica Bullard - YouTube)11 months ago (edited)

I attended a community college for a semester and while I was in line to apply the financial aid to my bill there was a man in line with me who was paying cash for his tuition. We talked about it and he said this is how his family has been doing things for generations. He said they pay cash for their homes, cars, education, etc because they don’t want debt and they see debt as a trap. It has forced them to live within their means and save lots of money. When you remove the interest you save lots of money on your car, house and education, you save on all large purchases. If they can do it, you can do it. Loans and job training (certification programs, colleges and universities) is everywhere but very few programs teach you how to generate actual money in a manner that will not take up all of your time. I seek out the education that teaches me how to generate money without wasting my time. I found that the key is finding and addressing the right people. Even the Bible was written once and it has been printed, recited and taught many times, for many generations with no signs of stopping. This is real. Learning the lesson for myself by doing the right activities and teaching is the key. Teaching is so important. The Apostile Paul told people that they should be teachers already but they weren’t doing it. Whatever the gift, use it. Don’t lose it. Have an awesome day. God bless you.

Show less
 
RCIAGraduate said:
Does that discount the struggles of the families who do not? And even if those families are not perfect why must they struggle, things can be difficult for working-class and poor families doing what they can. Meanwhile, $645 can only compound so much in a 401K (would they even accept minimal contributions). though to be fair, it might help with the rainy day fund (but even then, no family is perfect). Darklight is trying to convey real lie issues about people who try but it’s not enough or it seems like a struggle nonetheless. Also, perhaps some buy lotto tickets as a moment of respite in the midst of difficulties and trials they go through, what if these are people mired in desolation? I know I may sounding melodramatic but I am trying to highlight a point.
Click to expand...
$645 per year => $30,000 after 40 years.

Assuming nothing changes … i.e. you can increase your savings amount … and growth rate.

But the $645 is based on pocket change.



$10,000 invested … 15% => $1 million.

Instead of buying a house … price out building one yourself … buy the land … install a small single wide … provide water & waste disposal, electricity … gradually improve it …
 
Last edited:
While we may not see eye to eye and disagree, thank you for answering and responding. I ask pardon for anyone who I may have turned off in this thread. I do want to hear others here.
 
Last edited:
I mean, if you want to live in a side yard that turns into a mosquito-ridden swamp any time it rains thanks to bad drainage, be my guest…

😛
MonteRCMS said:
Being poor versus being broke:


click here google youtube poor
Click to expand...
I love that clip. My wife and I are doing the whole Dave Ramsey thing. All we have left are my student loans and the house. ^^
 
Last edited:
I doubt your lottery example is evenly distributed - more likely there are a few compulsive gamblers.

The reality for a lot of us is avoiding debt would destroy you. Don’t borrow money for a car? Hope you like losing your job for not being available, or constantly repairing a clunker. Think you $9 an hour is really going to let you pay tuition with your savings? My experience is more you’re just saving for the next emergency - it never lasts because you have to pay this medical bill, or that moving expenses, or this car repair bill, and there went your savings.
 

click here google youtube shrinking

comments:

So that woman working in pharmaceuticals for 20+ years at $195k/year did not manage to save a few million dollars and be financially independent? Who’s to blame? Good times ain’t gonna last forever.

11:13 … amid the construction of her new bathroom???!!! This woman is out of work, but is having a new bathroom put in her house?! This woman (Doranne Frano) was earning $195K yearly, but doesn’t have 6 months worth of expenses laid aside in a ‘rainy day fund’? SERIOUSLY???!!!
Couldn’t the interviewer have found a better example of a ‘struggling’ person? Seriously.
 
Last edited:
Here’s a rough budget I put together from what I’ve seen where I am. You make about $9/hr - that’s about average if you’re not considered to have skills or useful experience. Let’s say 50 hours a week, split between 2 part-time jobs. So your take-home pay is going to be about $14,400 after tax.

Cheapest rent I’ve seen around here is $500 a month, for a room and access to a kitchen (utilities included). You’ll need a car to get to those jobs, so add in $150 a month for your loan so you can get something that’s low-maintenance and god gas mileage. $70 in gas (that $500 a month rent isn’t very close to your job), $50 for insurance and $50 for maintenance. Another $400 a month will get you food as well as covering your household supplies, and $100 for an ok health insurance plan off the marketplace. We’re at $13,200 already there, with $120 left a month. We have no phone, no budget for clothes, none for medical bills - those are all going to have to come out of that $120. We’re also in trouble if either of our employers decides to cut hours, which is common in low-end jobs. You also don’t have any sort of paid time off, so if you get sick that’s coming out of that $120 too.
 
Around here, oil and gas is really big. You have guys who work in the oilfield, bringing $10k/month with a high school education, in an area where the average household income at the time was $26k/year. (This was 2008-2014, when we were paying $3-$4-$5/gallon for gas.)

But oil isn’t always $100+/barrel. When it sinks down to $40/barrel, a lot of the oil and gas gets shut down, and people are laid off, until it becomes more profitable to work the oil and gas.

But the people who were earning $10k/month hadn’t been taught how to manage their resources. When the $10k/month was coming in, they were blowing it on expensive cars, fancy houses, boats, vacations, whatever. And when they have to go back to a $10-$15/hr job like everyone else around here, 99 out of 100 of them haven’t set aside a good savings cushion, or done anything useful to have gotten ahead when times were good.

I’ve seen it over and over again with my renters. Just because someone brings in a middle-class salary doesn’t mean they have middle-class habits or middle-class values. A lot of times, they’re people who live a lifestyle you associate with people in poverty---- even though they have buckets of money coming in.
 
midori said:
I’ve seen it over and over again with my renters. Just because someone brings in a middle-class salary doesn’t mean they have middle-class habits or middle-class values. A lot of times, they’re people who live a lifestyle you associate with people in poverty---- even though they have buckets of money coming in.
Click to expand...
That goes both ways. There are a lot of folks who are living hand to mouth that waste a lot of money on lottery tickets or going out to the track. Or in modern days, I guess, going to casinos. When I was a teenager, one of the dishwashers where I worked took the bus out to the Meadows (track) every day. Man did not have proper shoes.

Yes, there are poor people, but a lot of poor people have bad habits
 
Financial literacy classes should be required to graduate Highschool, and honestly should start long before that. So many people have absolutely no clue how to manage their money, so even if they do have a good income they wind up with nothing to their name.

I used to be like that, fortunately my wife straightened me out. Now we live on budget, and are working to be debt free so that if one of us loses our job it doesn’t cripple us entirely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top