What do Catholics Believe?

[dragonclaw45373]

In Ephesians 2:8-9 it says 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I heard that Catholics believe that you must do good works to get to heaven. If the answer is no, thank you for taking the time to read my post. If the answer is yes, can you tell me why. I am trying to learn more about catholic beliefs.

 

[PeaceBeWithU]

I think this says it best.

James 2:14-26New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my** works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.**

 

[mlz]

In Ephesians 2:8-9 it says 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I heard that Catholics believe that you must do good works to get to heaven. If the answer is no, thank you for taking the time to read my post. If the answer is yes, can you tell me why. I am trying to learn more about catholic beliefs.

Such a common question protestants have. Thank you for being willing to listen to the Catholic teaching as many refuse and often believe something about Catholics that is not true.

I am a fairly new Catholic ( former protestant) so I may not be the best at explaining but will try. For Catholics it is “Both, And” (faith, works) In other words faith working in our lives…Catholics are totally about grace through faith but also this requires good works as a result of this. I am traveling now and don’t have the verses on the top of my head, but there are MANY scripture references that support this and demonstrate this! (I will look later but until then I would recommend you to go to this website and get some FREE CD’s on this…go to biblechristiansociety.com (or net?)!!! He will send you free of charge explanations on any questions you might have about the Catholic faith. Also, an overall view of many of the Catholic Church teachings are explained in a lay person’s language in Catholicism for Dummies. And for more indepth teaching of course, the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

I can only encourage you to continue trying to understand the Catholic faith because it is such an immensely DEEP and beautiful passing on of our Christian faith. I always say that being Catholic is the fullfillment of my Christian faith. ( I was a very serious protestant Christian before converting which took me about 3 years of prayer and study) Please PM me if you have any questions you would prefer to ask me privately.

Blessings in Him,
mlz

P.S. I’ve been in every “vein” of protestanism in my past so I think I can relate pretty well with most protestants…

 

[TruthSeeker319]

Our faith, which is granted to us by grace, should yield works. So in short, both.
To simplify it greatly:
Faith is loving God, and works is showing that love.

If you told your wife that you loved her, yet you never laughed with her, never comforted her in her sorrow, never did chores, never provided for her, etc. Would that truly be love?
As my childhood catechist always said, “Jesus doesn’t just want us to talk the talk, he wants us to walk the walk.”

James 2:17 tells us that without works, faith is dead.
James 2:24 teaches the faithful that faith alone is not enough. Works also need to be present.

May Almighty God lead you to Truth!

 

[rcwitness]

In Ephesians 2:8-9 it says 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I heard that Catholics believe that you must do good works to get to heaven. If the answer is no, thank you for taking the time to read my post. If the answer is yes, can you tell me why. I am trying to learn more about catholic beliefs.

Welcom to the forum! Good question. It does come up again and again.

We believe in Initial Justification and Final Justification. Or, in other words, there is a moment of being Justified and there are always moments of being justified. Living the faith is a journey.

Here are a couple verses (out of many) that we could apply to this:

Luke 18

He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Matthew 10

“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Beware of men; for they will deliver you up to councils, and flog you in their synagogues, and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear testimony before them and the Gentiles. When they deliver you up, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say; for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. Brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death; and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Initial Justification is our forgiveness of sin which came from the Father’s will and Christ’s work on the cross and while we were sinners! It comes through Baptism, whether as an infant and believing at the age of reason, or an adult who repents and receives His Baptism. There is no work involved and our will submits, consents, and receives freely what God gives freely. It did not come from works of the law, or because we were good in ourselves.

After we have received this grace, we are able to participate in the life of Jesus, by whom we were justified and given His Spirit. Many trials and temptation are promised to come. And we must continually rely on His grace to overcome. We are commanded to do good works, and it is His Spirit who compels us to do so, otherwise we do not have His Spirit in us. So He works in and through us. This is not done against our will, but in command of our “healed” will. We submit our will, as He Taught us to do. And we endure, and suffer with Him. If we do not, we risk holding fast to His Spirit. And we are not assured Once Saved, Always Saved.

1Cor. 15

Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, by which you are saved, if you hold it fast—unless you believed in vain.

So the Christian has duties in the faith.

1 Timothy 5

Command this, so that they may be without reproach. If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

These are not works of the Old Law, but the good Works of His Holy Spirit!

Now, for the man who fails, and who has sinned (after Baptism), there is Confession! This is also by the grace of God! And it is demanded because of the unity we have in One Body. Each man’s sin affects the whole, and so through the members, He hears and forgives us.

I’ll leave it at this, for now, since I’m sure this thread will take on a life…

Hope I can help, brother.

 

[Alex_H]

I don’t have a good answer but I thought it might be enlightening to ask: What did the early church fathers have to say about faith and works?

 

[Church_Militant]

These may help you out with this. What you are asking about is the error called Sola Fide and was never a Christian doctrine until about 400 years ago.

• Salvation is “just believing in Jesus”…
• Doesn’t the good thief prove sola fide?
• Sola Fide before the Reformation?
• Assurance of Salvation?
• Born Again - The Bible Way
• “Are You Saved?” If Only!

Here are also 2 of my own blog posts that may help you better understand.
Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

How Is A Catholic Saved?

Welcome to CAF. You’re gonna learn a lot.http://blackieschurchmilitant-apocalypsis.blogspot.com/2007/09/how-is-catholic-saved.html

 

[alwayswill]

These may help you out with this. What you are asking about is the error called Sola Fide and was never a Christian doctrine until about 400 years ago.
…

from a few years ago:

By defining “faith” as “identification with Christ expressed in love for God and neighbor,” **Pope Benedict **qualified his statement, noting that the Apostle Paul had written about such faith in his letters, especially the one to the Philippians.

According to this report, **Benedict affirmed that Luther had correctly translated Paul’s words as ‘justified by faith alone’ – the well known sola fide. **

. "Yet, said the Pope, it was indeed biblical to say, as did Luther, that it was the faith of a Christian, not his works that saved him."

According to Fountain, the Pope highlighted the fact that prior to his Damascus Road conversion, Paul had strictly adhered to all the Pharisaical laws and rules. **However, after meeting the Lord Jesus in his vision, Paul began leading a lifestyle of faith alone. **
blogs.cbn.com/ChurchWatch/archive/2009/02/06/pope-benedict-xvi-luther-was-right.aspx​

There is no such thing as a God given faith that is opposed to faith in charity, in love.
Doing works that are pleasing to God are the characteristics of a having a God given saving faith .

---

from the Vatican website
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
JOINT DECLARATION
ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION

by the Lutheran World Federation
and the Catholic Church
vatican.va/roman_curia/po…ration_en.html

“25.We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. By the action of the Holy Spirit in baptism, they are granted the gift of salvation, which lays the basis for the whole Christian life. They place their trust in God’s gracious promise by justifying faith, which includes hope in God and love for him. Such a faith is active in love and thus the Christian cannot and should not remain without works.**
But whatever in the justified precedes or follows the free gift of faith is neither the basis of justification nor merits it. **”​

read that again:

** But whatever** in the justified
** precedes
or
follows** the free gift of faith
** is neither the basis of justification nor merits it.**​

Also from the Vatican website
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html

"128.** Since faith is understood not only as affirmative knowledge, but also as the trust of the heart that bases itself on the Word of God,** it can further be said jointly: “Justification takes place ‘by grace alone’ (JD nos 15 and 16), by faith alone;/B] the person is justified ‘apart from works’ (Rom 3:28, cf. JD no. 25)” (JDDJ, Annex 2C).(44) "

 

[Billy_Buescher]

Jesus words are:

(Mat 7:21 ESV) "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

You need to believe to know of the Lord, but you also need to do the will of His Father.

Which in my opinion would be some works.

 

[alwayswill]

Jesus words are:

(Mat 7:21 ESV) "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

You need to believe to know of the Lord, but you also need to do the will of His Father.

Which in my opinion would be some works.

no one enters heaven with a false profession of faith;

conversely: **is there any one with a true faith **
(". Since faith is understood not only as affirmative knowledge, but also as the trust of the heart that bases itself on the Word of God," vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html)
that would not desire to do good works?

 

[rcwitness]

Jesus words are:

(Mat 7:21 ESV) "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

You need to believe to know of the Lord, but you also need to do the will of His Father.

Which in my opinion would be some works.

The work of God is that we believe in His Son. And to believe in His Son, is to keep His commandments.

 

[Memaw]

Such a common question protestants have. Thank you for being willing to listen to the Catholic teaching as many refuse and often believe something about Catholics that is not true.

I am a fairly new Catholic ( former protestant) so I may not be the best at explaining but will try. For Catholics it is “Both, And” (faith, works) In other words faith working in our lives…Catholics are totally about grace through faith but also this requires good works as a result of this. I am traveling now and don’t have the verses on the top of my head, but there are MANY scripture references that support this and demonstrate this! (I will look later but until then I would recommend you to go to this website and get some FREE CD’s on this…go to biblechristiansociety.com (or net?)!!! He will send you free of charge explanations on any questions you might have about the Catholic faith. Also, an overall view of many of the Catholic Church teachings are explained in a lay person’s language in Catholicism for Dummies. And for more indepth teaching of course, the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

I can only encourage you to continue trying to understand the Catholic faith because it is such an immensely DEEP and beautiful passing on of our Christian faith. I always say that being Catholic is the fullfillment of my Christian faith. ( I was a very serious protestant Christian before converting which took me about 3 years of prayer and study) Please PM me if you have any questions you would prefer to ask me privately.

Blessings in Him,
mlz

P.S. I’ve been in every “vein” of protestanism in my past so I think I can relate pretty well with most protestants…

Great, welcome Home! And don’t forget that Jesus said, "Whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for ME. Much of what protestants and others, believe about the Catholic Church is total misunderstanding of what we truly believe! God Bless, Memaw

 

[rcwitness]

The work of God is that we believe in His Son. And to believe in His Son, is to keep His commandments.

We (Catholics) believe His command is to do the will of the Father. And St. James has conveyed for us:

“So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.”

“Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren?”

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?* You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works.”

“For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.”

So James addresses the reality of an enduring justification, where our justification is our present state. He is not saying we earn God’s justification, but we accept it through a working faith. We are convicted, compelled, and guided to do what pleases our Lord. He did not forgive us to continue in the works of this world.

 

[dragonclaw45373]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions.
But doesn’t Romans 3:28 say “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.”
This has led me to make the conclusion that we are not saved through deeds, but for deeds. Paul emphasized the first part of salvation: Faith. And James emphasized what people with faith do: Works.
Collossians 2:13 13 “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins”

 

[rcwitness]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions.
But doesn’t Romans 3:28 say “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.”
This has led me to make the conclusion that we are not saved through deeds, but for deeds. Paul emphasized the first part of salvation: Faith. And James emphasized what people with faith do: Works.
Collossians 2:13 13 “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins”

Paul is referring to works of the Law. James is referring to works of the Spirit (of the Son).

Salvation is a gift, we attain through faith and works. Not because we were faithful to do works, but because Jesus achieved the merits of our salvation. Faith is a gift, and so it’s fruitful deeds. We co-operate with faith to accomplish it’s purpose. We have free will, and yet it’s not our will who is good, but His that our will must submit and consent to.

Justification has an Initiation. It is the desire and will of God to associate Himself (His life) with us. He chose this because He is good, not of anything we have done to merit Him. On the contrary, we merited eternal separation.

Justification, then has an endurance. It has a condition. That we are faithful to the end. This faithfulness is NOT faith alone, but faith completed by works.

Revelations 2

“Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.”*

 

[Memaw]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions.
But doesn’t Romans 3:28 say “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.”
This has led me to make the conclusion that we are not saved through deeds, but for deeds. Paul emphasized the first part of salvation: Faith. And James emphasized what people with faith do: Works.
Collossians 2:13 13 “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins”

Of course Faith comes first, but after we come to Faith, then we must be willing to do as Jesus taught us. It doesn’t "end " with faith only. Jesus said to sinners,“Your Faith has saved you, go and sin no more.” Many times Jesus taught us to do for our neighbor, “walk” the extra mile, feed the hungry, care for the sick, even to the point of giving our life for others. That is putting our Faith to Work for Jesus. God Bless, Memaw

 

[rcwitness]

Revelations 2

“Remember then from what you have fallen, repent and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.”

 

[dragonclaw45373]

Of course Faith comes first, but after we come to Faith, then we must be willing to do as Jesus taught us. It doesn’t "end " with faith only. Jesus said to sinners,“Your Faith has saved you, go and sin no more.” Many times Jesus taught us to do for our neighbor, “walk” the extra mile, feed the hungry, care for the sick, even to the point of giving our life for others. That is putting our Faith to Work for Jesus. God Bless, Memaw

I agree that working for God is good, but where does it say that they are vital to salvation? If you could give me a verse, I would help me out a lot.

 

[JimG]

In the parable of the Last Judgment, in Matt 25-31ff, Jesus describes the final judgment, dividing the saved and the damned into two groups, based entirely on their works. (“When you did it for the least of these, you did it for me.”) He bases his judgment on how they treated their neighbor. He doesn’t mention their faith or lack of faith, but only their works: (“For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink.”)

Of course, neither Catholics nor Protestants believe that salvation is based solely on works. In fact, Catholics would affirm that we are saved by grace alone, and that saving faith encompasses living in Christ and following his commands. But if I were to read this passage of the bible seriously with its emphasis on how we treat others as the criterion of how we will be judged on the last day, I would take good works as a serious responsibility indeed.

 

[rcwitness]

I agree that working for God is good, but where does it say that they are vital to salvation? If you could give me a verse, I would help me out a lot.

Really? Have I not provided several?

Here’s another:

“…and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.”

Our final justification is conditional on whether we do His will/good works/suffer with Him/endure to the end/hold fast the faith. These are all the same thing… faith plus action.