What Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe?

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

then when you are done reading the propaganda on their official website do a Google and read the reality of what they believe from people who suffered thru it. Here is an objective link—which includes sample chapters of Ray Franz’s book and links for websites like Free Minds run by former JWs who have broken free:

Jehovah's Witnesses - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

oh and don’t forget silentlambs.org (makes the Catholic sex scandals look like a bad hair day.)

Ravyn

 

[mkarzon]

Originally Posted by BibleSteve.

In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale.

This is a big part of the Watchtower error on their teaching. Classical Greek is not “Bible Greek”. The Greek of the NT is called Koine Greek. Classical Greek faded out of use around the time of Alexander the Great, which was over 300 years before the time of the Lord. There are vast differences between Classical and Koine Greek, and the meaning of the word stauros in Classical Greek is not relevant to Bible study. The work stauros in Koine (NT) Greek can most certainly mean a pole with a crossbeam. If NT writers wanted to convey that Jesus was executed on an upright pole with no crossbeam, they would have most likely used the word skolops to describe this. But they never did.

 

[yessisan]

Hi BibleSteve,

Can I ask, how long have you been a JW?

And regarding your posts, have you ever taken ancient history? Or even searched the origin of the cross? Maybe if your society would allow you to read these materials, they’d lose many of you.

Thanks for coming to CAF, hope you stay to give us **YOUR **point of view. I know you stated things that come from one of the watchtower’s publications, but, can you answer me this? Why is it that the JWs are the ONLY ones who beleive this? Why is it that JW literature is not available for purchase? Why is it such a secret?

I’m married to a JW, and sadly he is an active one, but the fact that he married a Catholic makes him less of a JW, I think my Catholicism is rubbing off on him, yesterday we were makeing jokes while cooking dinner and you know what he said? “Was Jesus killed on a cross? Yes he was”…

Please answer my questions, I don’t want to scare you off. We don’t get many JWs who stick aroud to give us their POVs.

 

[yessisan]

Ravyn_Guiliani,

First things first, CONGRATULATIONS! You got out of a very dangerous society on your own. Can I ask what it was that made you leave that cult?

People like you give me hope that maybe one day my husband will leave them too.

I know what you were talking abou how these people are, I live it every day at home and even attended meetings w/my husband so that I’d know what he was learning there, but I started feeling confused about the Trinity, so I had to leave (aside from the constant Catholic bashing that goes on in their meetings and literature).

Again, congrats on having left them! I’m pretty sure you are very happy to have opened up your eyes.

BTW, I bought that book by Ray Franz, just in case my husband becomes curious and grabs it. It might help him open his eyes…

 

[BibleSteve]

This is a big part of the Watchtower error on their teaching. Classical Greek is not “Bible Greek”. The Greek of the NT is called Koine Greek. Classical Greek faded out of use around the time of Alexander the Great, which was over 300 years before the time of the Lord. There are vast differences between Classical and Koine Greek, and the meaning of the word stauros in Classical Greek is not relevant to Bible study. The work stauros in Koine (NT) Greek can most certainly mean a pole with a crossbeam. If NT writers wanted to convey that Jesus was executed on an upright pole with no crossbeam, they would have most likely used the word skolops to describe this. But they never did.

I thought the point quoted was balanced. Pointing out the history of the word stauros. Pointing out that Classical Greek is not Bible Greek, doesn’t change the fact that the word meant different things in different timeframes.

The Greek word rendered “cross” in many modern Bible versions (“torture stake” in NW) is stau•ros´. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale. Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau•ros´], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

Steve

 

[yessisan]

I thought the point quoted was balanced. Pointing out the history of the word stauros. Pointing out that Classical Greek is not Bible Greek, doesn’t change the fact that the word meant different things in different timeframes.

The Greek word rendered “cross” in many modern Bible versions (“torture stake” in NW) is stau•ros´. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale. Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau•ros´], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

Steve

Wrong!! Go to world.altavista.com/ and type the word cross on the translation text box, and below find translate from English to Greek. This came up:

σταυρός = stauros, stayros

Type in stake and this comes up:

πάσσαλος = passalos

(greek letters converted to latin letters by this)

Search those two words here

And guess what??? stauros is cross, the other word is stake.

I’m starting to think JWs don’t really research before they publish… could it be???

 

[yessisan]

One of my favorite Watchtower books was a small brown-covered book written in question-and-answer format. For the life of me, I can’t rememebr the name of it. It guided their “pioneers” into making conversations and answering complex questions about their faith. Ravyn, do you remember what it was called? I’d like to get another copy for my personal library.

I have several copies of that book at home because of DH… From the top of my head I cannot recall the name, but I know what you’re talking about.

I hate that little book!

Last yr for Valentine’s I had bought Dh (then my fiance) a cologne, a teddy bear and a giant greeting card. I left it in the trunk of my car so that when he was to come to my house to see me, I’d get it out and give it to him.

So he got to my house, all dressed up (because he had just gone to a JW meeting) and asked me to go straight into his car … strange I tought. So then he pulls out that darn book and searches for something. Then whe he found it, he tells me “this is why I don’t celebrate Valentine’s” and reads off the answer to one of those questions which talked about how Valentine’s day originally was to worship a Roman god, blah blah blah. I was heart broken and angry because this was the 2nd time he had pulled that junk with me. Me, being the romantic I am, being stomped by this DF’d JW. :crying:

I didn’t give him the gift because I was mad, I gave it to him about a wk later, and he felt so embarrassed. A few days after that he bought me a $200 present because I had bought him that stuff.

So, I went home, and printed the history of St. Valentine and explained it to him… so this yr I did get a Valentine’s present. Last yr he also bought me a bday present and Christmas presents but gave them to me 2 days before so they wouldn’t be considered presents for those occassions… he’s only fooling himself because I know that’s why he bought them…

(the sad part about this is that he’s an active JW aagain) but we’ll be going to celebrate a few bdays at my uncle’s house this wknd… what a JW huh?

 

[BibleSteve]

Wrong!! …

I’m starting to think JWs don’t really research before they publish… could it be???

Who are you attempting to argue with? Me or the Imperial Bible Dictionary I simply quoted?

For those who are more interested in understanding why other groups believe as they do vs. just wanting to prove their own position right… I’d simply say there well researched articles that support both sides of this discussion.

Personally, I think the importance and value of Jesus sacrificial death far outweighs the shape of the instrument of his death.

I guess if he was knifed to death, people would be arguing about the size and shape of the knife.

Steve

 

[yessisan]

Who are you attempting to argue with? Me or the Imperial Bible Dictionary I simply quoted?

For those who are more interested in understanding why other groups believe as they do vs. just wanting to prove their own position right… I’d simply say there well researched articles that support both sides of this discussion.

Personally, I think the importance and value of Jesus sacrificial death far outweighs the shape of the instrument of his death.

I guess if he was knifed to death, people would be arguing about the size and shape of the knife.

Steve

Sure, why not? If that was the object he was killed with, maybe we would carry a little knife pendant on our necklaces, just remember that we only wear the cross as a reminder of what Jesus sacrificed for us, not because we want to remember he was killed on it…

Don’t think I’m trying to attack you.

I actually do agree with you in that what Jesus did for us is what’s important. He gave his life to save ours.

 

[BibleSteve]

Why is it that JW literature is not available for purchase? Why is it such a secret?

JW literature is readily available for free. By simply calling the local Kingdom Hall, you will recieve any of hundreds of publications hand delivered to your door for free.

Steve

 

[yessisan]

JW literature is readily available for free. By simply calling the local Kingdom Hall, you will recieve any of hundreds of publications hand delivered to your door for free.

Steve

I know that but no one knows this unless they know a JW. I’ve asked for my copies of everything so I know what my husband is being taught.

I even have the little green book that only JWs get when they baptize, they gave it to me because they thought I was going to be baptized.

But my point was that it’s harder to acquire JW literature than Catholic literature.

And I’m not going to lie to you. I was intrigued by the JWs when I started attending w/my husband, but after a yr of attending with him I had to stop, my beliefs were changing even though I knew for sure since the beginning that the Watchtower wasn’t for me.

 

[Subrosa]

What Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe?

Independent filmmaker Joel P. Engardio wrote and narrated the PBS documentary "Knocking," which explains misunderstood aspects of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Raised as a Witness, Engardio chose not to join the faith because he disagrees with some of its positions. His film, however, explores many of the positive contributions that Witnesses have made to society. In a series of brief Beliefnet videos, Engardio answers frequently-asked questions about Witnesses.

watchtower.org/

This week they have an article on why we should not pray the rosary. Not surprising considering many protestants carry the same view.

And praying to statues? Pagan all the way!

Sub

 

[yessisan]

watchtower.org/

This week they have an article on why we should not pray the rosary. Not surprising considering many protestants carry the same view.

And praying to statues? Pagan all the way!

Sub

Ha… I wonder what DH is going to say when this is studied at his congregation… I have a rosary cd in my car which I listen to every day on my way home from work, I wear a rosary ring, I leave out my rosary booklet and have a rosary hanging from a picture of Jesus in our home office.

The funniest part is that his JW sisters are coming over Sunday and I’m pretty sure they’ll hate to see those thing in my house…

 

[az_4_faith]

The Watchtower Magazine specifically targets the Catholic Church (the Roman Church) as the Church of error in each month’s publication. It doesn’t go after any other church by name, that I’m aware of.

So when my neighborhood-friendly JW knocks at my door and tells me how much Jesus loves me and wants all of us to be united to fight the sadness of this world, I ask them how they’re going to promote unity by spreading malicious fallacies about my religion and Church. At least they could get their information right, but the Watchtower always has some idiotic claim against the Roman Church that has no truth to it at all. This usually upsets the JWs standing at my door, because I cut to the chase. I’m tired of their propoganda against my faith and until that stops, there’s nothing to talk about.

Ecumenism demands equal respect and until the JW’s have that, we don’t have much in common.

 

[yessisan]

The Watchtower Magazine specifically targets the Catholic Church (the Roman Church) as the Church of error in each month’s publication. It doesn’t go after any other church by name, that I’m aware of.

So when my neighborhood-friendly JW knocks at my door and tells me how much Jesus loves me and wants all of us to be united to fight the sadness of this world, I ask them how they’re going to promote unity by spreading malicious fallacies about my religion and Church. At least they could get their information right, but the Watchtower always has some idiotic claim against the Roman Church that has no truth to it at all. This usually upsets the JWs standing at my door, because I cut to the chase. I’m tired of their propoganda against my faith and until that stops, there’s nothing to talk about.

Ecumenism demands equal respect and until the JW’s have that, we don’t have much in common.

Exactly! If you see their books, magazines and tracts, they all are anti-Catholic… I know this is a fact because I have all their publications (at least the most current ones and I have the library cd that contains all of their literature ever)…

That is the reason why I don’t read their junk any more, it makes me angry when I see all the Catholic bashing that goes on in this cult. One of the main reasons I stopped attending with DH, other than the fact that it seemed I was supporting him on him being a JW, and that I started doubting my own faith…

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

JW literature is readily available for free. By simply calling the local Kingdom Hall, you will recieve any of hundreds of publications hand delivered to your door for free.

Steve

along with a visit and Bible Study. And you might get a few magazines and the latest study book, but I seriously doubt you will get a Reasoning book or anything considered ‘meat’.
Try eBay.
Ravyn

 

[yessisan]

along with a visit and Bible Study. And you might get a few magazines and the latest study book, but I seriously doubt you will get a Reasoning book or anything considered ‘meat’.
Try eBay.
Ravyn

That’s the name of the brown book!!! thanks Ravyn! But hey, I have the book…

 

[juno24]

watchtower.org/

This week they have an article on why we should not pray the rosary. Not surprising considering many protestants carry the same view.

And praying to statues? Pagan all the way!

Sub

I just read one of the articles the watchtower site has on praying to Mary.(/http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2005/9/8a/article_01.htm) In the article they quote their bible as having Mary say “all generations will pronounce me happy”. Does their bible really say that?!

 

[yessisan]

I just read one of the articles the watchtower site has on praying to Mary.(/http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2005/9/8a/article_01.htm) In the article they quote their bible as having Mary say “all generations will pronounce me happy”. Does their bible really say that?!

Check here for yourself… that is, if they actually quoted where in the bible it’s supposed to say that.

 

[Miserissima]

I hate that little book!

Thanks to Bible Steve for the title, “Reasoning From The Scriptures.” It was an invaluable book to me because it helps me to understand and gently refute their claims.

I wouldn’t get too wrapped up in understanding their “torture stake” vs. “cross.” The New World Translation is notoriously suspect. In fact, academics have found that it’s not based on any solid scholarship.

Here’s some info in the JW Bible translation (from here):

…former member of the Watchtower’s Governing Body, Raymond V. Franz, in his book, Crisis of Conscience, lists the translators’ names as Franz, Knorr, Schroeder and Cangas. His list omits Henschel. Franz further acknowledges his uncle Frederick Franz as the “principal translator of the Society’s New World Translation” (Crisis, pg. 50).

Yet, Frederick Franz’s translation ability is open to serious question.

During a court trial held in Scotland in 1954 (during the same period that the New World Translation was being made) Franz was asked if he had made himself familiar with Hebrew. His reply was “Yes.” Healso acknowledged under oath that he could read and follow the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Portuguese, German and French. The following day, during the same court trial, his linguistic abilities were put to the test.

He was asked to translate Genesis 2:4 into Hebrew. He failed the test as he was unable to do so. In fact he did not even try, but rather stated “No, I wouldn’t attempt to do that.”(See, Court of Session, Scotland - Douglas Walsh vs. The Right Honourable James Latham Clyde - November 1954.)